Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-21 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
t...@vse2pdf.com (Tony Thigpen) writes: > The 4300 did not come out of Endicott. It was developed in Germany, in > the same lab that developes DOS/VSE. As an undergraduate I do lots of work on cp67 (including to run in 256kbyte machine). The morph of cp67 to vm370, did a lot of simplification of

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-21 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
other trivia in the wake of FS and mad rush ... 303x was kicked off ... as mentioned 3033 was 168 logic remapped to 20% faster chips ... that happened to have ten times more circuits per chip. Using original 168 logic, 3033 would have been only 20% faster than 168 (aka 3.6mips). However, some

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-21 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In <87egefr5wr@garlic.com>, on 12/21/2015 at 10:52 AM, Anne & Lynn Wheeler said: >It showed 4341 was faster than 158&3031 Doesn't that depend on whether your benchmark is packed decimal or gloating poin arithmetic? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-21 Thread Clark Morris
On 20 Dec 2015 18:15:48 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: >In <3555618195553184.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on >12/20/2015 > at 07:14 PM, Paul Gilmartin ><000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> said: > >>On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:11:27 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-21 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
jcew...@acm.org (Joel C. Ewing) writes: > No (about the "free", not about the "dead for decades"), DOS/VS was the > last really free base (last version Release 34?). Perhaps technically > DOS/VSE was "free", as there didn't appear to be a monthly licensing > charge for DOS/VSE itself

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-21 Thread Tony Thigpen
> Endicott did something similar for e-architecture (4331 & 4341) > tailoredfor vs1 The 4300 did not come out of Endicott. It was developed in Germany, in the same lab that developes DOS/VSE. Tony Thigpen Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote on 12/21/2015 03:05 AM: jcew...@acm.org (Joel C. Ewing)

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-21 Thread Mike Schwab
No wonder they didn't break. On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 6:27 AM, Tony Thigpen wrote: >> Endicott did something similar for e-architecture (4331 & 4341) >> tailoredfor vs1 > > The 4300 did not come out of Endicott. It was developed in Germany, in the > same lab that developes

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-21 Thread Tony Thigpen
Not only the 4300, but also the MP3000, which also did not break. :-) Tony Thigpen Mike Schwab wrote on 12/21/2015 10:36 AM: No wonder they didn't break. On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 6:27 AM, Tony Thigpen wrote: Endicott did something similar for e-architecture (4331 & 4341)

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-20 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:11:27 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > >>one example explicitly named being VSE/Power versus Power/VS. > >POWER was an addon. > Is VSE without POWER almost, but not quite, entirely unlike OS without JES? -- gil

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-20 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In <3555618195553184.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on 12/20/2015 at 07:14 PM, Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> said: >On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:11:27 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > >>>one example explicitly named being VSE/Power versus Power/VS.

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-20 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In <56773a22.1090...@acm.org>, on 12/20/2015 at 05:30 PM, "Joel C. Ewing" said: >but the ComputerWorld article I referenced said that with DOS/VSE >users started to pay for components that used to be free with IBM >DOS/VS, And you believed them because? >one example

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-20 Thread Steve Thompson
On 12/20/2015 08:14 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:11:27 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: one example explicitly named being VSE/Power versus Power/VS. POWER was an addon. Is VSE without POWER almost, but not quite, entirely unlike OS without JES? -- gil

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-20 Thread Joel C. Ewing
On 12/20/2015 03:36 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > In <56771642.3000...@acm.org>, on 12/20/2015 >at 02:57 PM, "Joel C. Ewing" said: > >> No (about the "free", not about the "dead for decades"), DOS/VS was >> the last really free base (last version Release 34?).

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-20 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In <56771642.3000...@acm.org>, on 12/20/2015 at 02:57 PM, "Joel C. Ewing" said: >No (about the "free", not about the "dead for decades"), DOS/VS was >the last really free base (last version Release 34?). Perhaps >technically DOS/VSE was "free", as there didn't appear to be

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-20 Thread Joel C. Ewing
On 12/19/2015 07:48 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > In , on 12/18/2015 >at 08:31 PM, Clark Morris said: > >> Are there any current IBM references to DOS/VSE? > DOS/VSE is the old free base, and has been dead for

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-19 Thread Stevet
Yeah, except PC DOS is more like DPS on a S/360-20. DOS on a S/360-30 was more advanced than PC DOS. Sent from iPhone - small keyboard fat fingers - expect spellinf errots. > On Dec 19, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Joel C. Ewing wrote: > > But if the comment was made by someone whose

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-19 Thread Joel C. Ewing
But if the comment was made by someone whose education is limited to Intel, he probably is convinced IBM mainframe DOS is equivalent to PC DOS. Joel C. Ewing On 12/18/2015 06:31 PM, Clark Morris wrote: > On 18 Dec 2015 09:44:15 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: > >> Nice, maybe

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In , on 12/18/2015 at 08:31 PM, Clark Morris said: >Are there any current IBM references to DOS/VSE? DOS/VSE is the old free base, and has been dead for decades. There are probably lots of references to the current

DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-18 Thread Clark Morris
On 18 Dec 2015 09:44:15 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: >Nice, maybe someone should introduce them to the Mainframe Basics Redbook. > > >On Friday, December 18, 2015 12:42 PM, Walter Davies > wrote: > > > Our board of supervisors like to say the

Re: DOS descendant still lives was Re: slight reprieve on the z.

2015-12-18 Thread Tony Thigpen
There are a bunch of us z/VSE customers. Many on bare iron. Many on z/VM. Tony Thigpen Clark Morris wrote on 12/18/2015 07:31 PM: On 18 Dec 2015 09:44:15 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Nice, maybe someone should introduce them to the Mainframe Basics Redbook. On Friday,