Re: OMVS Man Pages

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 11 May 2023 07:25:07 -0500, Lionel B. Dyck  wrote:

>Please check out this IBM Idea (aka requirement) that I just posted
>regarding the OMVS Man pages and vote and/or comment
>
>https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-3685
> 
It's a tough climb:  It's hard enough to get IBM to conform to standards, let 
alone
widespread prevailing conventions.

And Single UNIX says 
<https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/man.html#tag_20_77_18>:

RATIONALE

It is recognized that the man utility is only of minimal usefulness as 
specified. The opinion of the standard developers was strongly divided as to 
how much or how little information man should be required to provide. They 
considered, however, that the provision of some portable way of accessing 
documentation would aid user portability. The arguments against a fuller 
specification were:

When installing FOSS, I have directed the man pages to an NFS-exported 
directory, then run a
script on Solaris to access every man page, ">/dev/null", rendering the nroff 
format into the
"cat" hierarchy for viewing on MVS.  Far from ideal.

-- 
gil

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Re: OMVS Man Pages

[suresh chacko]

Dear Lionel,

Good post.

Regards,
Suresh

On Thu, May 11, 2023, 4:25 PM Lionel B. Dyck  wrote:

> Please check out this IBM Idea (aka requirement) that I just posted
> regarding the OMVS Man pages and vote and/or comment
>
> https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-3685
>
> The prose is:
> =
>
> The current MAN command uses a z/OS unique man page format and man
> database.
> As others port tools (see the z/OS Open Tools project on Github at
> https://zosopentools.github.io/meta/#/) to run under OMVS this presents
> challenges  and a great barrier in the area of man pages as:
>
> 1. The man page format is different on OMVS when compared to the standard
> *nix man pages
>
> 2. The man database for OMVS is proprietary with no tools to update or add
> to it preventing ported/new tools from adding their man page to the
> database
>
> There are two solutions, with one better than the other.
>
> Preferred solution: Convert all existing OMVS man pages to the standard
> *nix
> format and provide a mandb tool to update the man page database.
>
> Alternate solution: Release the tool that builds the existing OMVS man page
> database.
>
> =
>
> Lionel B. Dyck <><
> Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
> Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
>
> “Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what
> you
> are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>

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OMVS Man Pages

[Lionel B. Dyck]

Please check out this IBM Idea (aka requirement) that I just posted
regarding the OMVS Man pages and vote and/or comment

https://ibm-z-hardware-and-operating-systems.ideas.ibm.com/ideas/ZOS-I-3685

The prose is:
=

The current MAN command uses a z/OS unique man page format and man database.
As others port tools (see the z/OS Open Tools project on Github at
https://zosopentools.github.io/meta/#/) to run under OMVS this presents
challenges  and a great barrier in the area of man pages as:

1. The man page format is different on OMVS when compared to the standard
*nix man pages

2. The man database for OMVS is proprietary with no tools to update or add
to it preventing ported/new tools from adding their man page to the database

There are two solutions, with one better than the other.

Preferred solution: Convert all existing OMVS man pages to the standard *nix
format and provide a mandb tool to update the man page database.

Alternate solution: Release the tool that builds the existing OMVS man page
database.

=

Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

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Re: omvs man pages

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 19:31:36 +0200, Peter Sylvester wrote:

>I "like" this one:
>
>https://www.ibm.com/docs/pt-br/zos/2.3.0?topic=messages-fsumf061
>
Where I read:
User response
Format this man page on a system that supports nroff or troff. Then 
return
the formatted man page to z/OS UNIX and install it in the appropriate
/usr/man/LANG/catN directory. Then man will be able to find it.

NFS shortcuts the process.  It has worked for me.

But it doesn't address the "man -k ..." requirement.

Where do nroff or troff man pages come from?  IBM?  ISV?  FOSS?

Where's the 1956 Consent Decree when you need it?

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Re: omvs man pages

[Peter Sylvester]

I "like" this one:

https://www.ibm.com/docs/pt-br/zos/2.3.0?topic=messages-fsumf061

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Re: omvs man pages

[Lionel B. Dyck]

Looks like that section of the pub was removed from the 2.4 and 2.5 versions of 
the pubs so I'm unclear on what happens in 2.4 or 2.5 for man pages.

Anyone have any clue?


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2022 9:24 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: omvs man pages

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.3.0?topic=sys1parmlib-ephwp00-bookmanager-topic-extraction

Last version for topic is 2.3.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 7:53 AM Michael Babcock  wrote:
>
> I was thinking that EPH datasets are no longer shipped with z/OS.  
> They are not on my z/OS 2.4 system.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 6:24 AM Lionel B. Dyck  wrote:
>
> > The issue isn't with MANPATH - when you issue the command:  man -k .
> >
> > It reports a summary of 'all available' man pages.
> >
> > And when you issue:  man -k xxx
> >
> > It will report 'all' the man pages that have xxx
> >
> > The OMVS man command does *not* search the MANPATH but the 
> > information in the EPH.SEPHTAB dataset.
> >
> > Thus Rocket, Co:Z, etc. man pages will never be found.
> >
> > Using the command man xxx apparently does use the MANPATH as it will 
> > display other man pages (e.g. curl).
> >
> > What I'd like is the ability to update the EPH.SEPHTAB, or .?
> >
> >
> > Lionel B. Dyck <><
> > Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
> > Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
> >
> > “Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what
> > you are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> > Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2022 2:19 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: omvs man pages
> >
> > On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:56:38 -0500, Lionel B. Dyck wrote:
> >
> > >This explains how to enable the man pages in omvs 
> > >https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-
> > >page
> > >s
> > >
> > A more recent edition: <
> > https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.3.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-p
> > ages>
> >
> > >BUT - is there a way to update this with additional man pages - say 
> > >some from Rocket (i.e. curl) ?
> > >
> > Alas, I see: <
> > https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799.2008edition/utiliti
> > es/man.html
> > >:
> > ...
> > The historical MANPATH variable is not included in POSIX because 
> > no attempt is
> > made to specify naming conventions for reference page files, nor 
> > even to mandate
> > that they are files at all.
> >
> > Bummer.  I would have hoped for something such as
> > MANPATH=/usr/man/%L:/usr/lpp/com.rocketsoftward/man
> >
> > Are the Bookie pages formatted on-the-fly or are formatted versions cached?
> >
> > >Lionel B. Dyck <><
> > >Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
> > >Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
> >
> > --
> > gil
> >
> > 
> > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, 
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO 
> > IBM-MAIN
> >
> > 
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> > IBM-MAIN
> >
> --
> Michael Babcock
> OneMain Financial
> z/OS Systems Programmer, Lead
>
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--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: omvs man pages

[Mike Schwab]

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.3.0?topic=sys1parmlib-ephwp00-bookmanager-topic-extraction

Last version for topic is 2.3.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 7:53 AM Michael Babcock  wrote:
>
> I was thinking that EPH datasets are no longer shipped with z/OS.  They are
> not on my z/OS 2.4 system.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 6:24 AM Lionel B. Dyck  wrote:
>
> > The issue isn't with MANPATH - when you issue the command:  man -k .
> >
> > It reports a summary of 'all available' man pages.
> >
> > And when you issue:  man -k xxx
> >
> > It will report 'all' the man pages that have xxx
> >
> > The OMVS man command does *not* search the MANPATH but the information in
> > the EPH.SEPHTAB dataset.
> >
> > Thus Rocket, Co:Z, etc. man pages will never be found.
> >
> > Using the command man xxx apparently does use the MANPATH as it will
> > display other man pages (e.g. curl).
> >
> > What I'd like is the ability to update the EPH.SEPHTAB, or .?
> >
> >
> > Lionel B. Dyck <><
> > Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
> > Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
> >
> > “Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what
> > you are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> > Of Paul Gilmartin
> > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2022 2:19 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: omvs man pages
> >
> > On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:56:38 -0500, Lionel B. Dyck wrote:
> >
> > >This explains how to enable the man pages in omvs
> > >https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-page
> > >s
> > >
> > A more recent edition: <
> > https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.3.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-pages>
> >
> > >BUT - is there a way to update this with additional man pages - say
> > >some from Rocket (i.e. curl) ?
> > >
> > Alas, I see: <
> > https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799.2008edition/utilities/man.html
> > >:
> > ...
> > The historical MANPATH variable is not included in POSIX because no
> > attempt is
> > made to specify naming conventions for reference page files, nor even
> > to mandate
> > that they are files at all.
> >
> > Bummer.  I would have hoped for something such as
> > MANPATH=/usr/man/%L:/usr/lpp/com.rocketsoftward/man
> >
> > Are the Bookie pages formatted on-the-fly or are formatted versions cached?
> >
> > >Lionel B. Dyck <><
> > >Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
> > >Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
> >
> > --
> > gil
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> --
> Michael Babcock
> OneMain Financial
> z/OS Systems Programmer, Lead
>
> --
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-- 
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: omvs man pages

[Michael Babcock]

I was thinking that EPH datasets are no longer shipped with z/OS.  They are
not on my z/OS 2.4 system.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 6:24 AM Lionel B. Dyck  wrote:

> The issue isn't with MANPATH - when you issue the command:  man -k .
>
> It reports a summary of 'all available' man pages.
>
> And when you issue:  man -k xxx
>
> It will report 'all' the man pages that have xxx
>
> The OMVS man command does *not* search the MANPATH but the information in
> the EPH.SEPHTAB dataset.
>
> Thus Rocket, Co:Z, etc. man pages will never be found.
>
> Using the command man xxx apparently does use the MANPATH as it will
> display other man pages (e.g. curl).
>
> What I'd like is the ability to update the EPH.SEPHTAB, or .?
>
>
> Lionel B. Dyck <><
> Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
> Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
>
> “Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what
> you are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2022 2:19 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: omvs man pages
>
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:56:38 -0500, Lionel B. Dyck wrote:
>
> >This explains how to enable the man pages in omvs
> >https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-page
> >s
> >
> A more recent edition: <
> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.3.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-pages>
>
> >BUT - is there a way to update this with additional man pages - say
> >some from Rocket (i.e. curl) ?
> >
> Alas, I see: <
> https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799.2008edition/utilities/man.html
> >:
> ...
> The historical MANPATH variable is not included in POSIX because no
> attempt is
> made to specify naming conventions for reference page files, nor even
> to mandate
> that they are files at all.
>
> Bummer.  I would have hoped for something such as
> MANPATH=/usr/man/%L:/usr/lpp/com.rocketsoftward/man
>
> Are the Bookie pages formatted on-the-fly or are formatted versions cached?
>
> >Lionel B. Dyck <><
> >Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
> >Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
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-- 
Michael Babcock
OneMain Financial
z/OS Systems Programmer, Lead

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Re: omvs man pages

[Lionel B. Dyck]

The issue isn't with MANPATH - when you issue the command:  man -k .

It reports a summary of 'all available' man pages. 

And when you issue:  man -k xxx

It will report 'all' the man pages that have xxx

The OMVS man command does *not* search the MANPATH but the information in the 
EPH.SEPHTAB dataset.

Thus Rocket, Co:Z, etc. man pages will never be found.

Using the command man xxx apparently does use the MANPATH as it will display 
other man pages (e.g. curl).

What I'd like is the ability to update the EPH.SEPHTAB, or .?


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2022 2:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: omvs man pages

On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:56:38 -0500, Lionel B. Dyck wrote:

>This explains how to enable the man pages in omvs 
>https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-page
>s
>
A more recent edition: 
<https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.3.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-pages>

>BUT - is there a way to update this with additional man pages - say 
>some from Rocket (i.e. curl) ?
>
Alas, I see: 
<https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799.2008edition/utilities/man.html>:
...
The historical MANPATH variable is not included in POSIX because no attempt 
is
made to specify naming conventions for reference page files, nor even to 
mandate
that they are files at all. 

Bummer.  I would have hoped for something such as
MANPATH=/usr/man/%L:/usr/lpp/com.rocketsoftward/man

Are the Bookie pages formatted on-the-fly or are formatted versions cached?

>Lionel B. Dyck <><
>Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
>Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

--
gil

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Re: omvs man pages

[Michael Babcock]

Yes exactly what I did.  I added the rocket paths to the MANPATH in
/etc/profile.

On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 3:10 PM Peter Sylvester 
wrote:

> Yes, the rocket anaconda stuff has man files that you can add to MANPATH.
>
> in OMVS /etc/profile
>
> # ==
> #MANPATH environment variable
> #
> # Specifies the list of directories that the system searches for man
> # pages (help files). The %L represents the language currently set by
> # the LANG environment variable.
> # ==
> MANPATH=/usr/man/%L
> export MANPATH
>
>
> And you can activate you current conda environment, or well, assuming you
> have the rocket software in a file system in $RSOFT and your current
> conda environment is xyz, then add
>
> $RSOFT/envs/xyz/share/man into MANPATH wherever you may want it.
>
> There are other man for IBM products.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> //
>
>
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Re: omvs man pages

[Peter Sylvester]

Yes, the rocket anaconda stuff has man files that you can add to MANPATH.

in OMVS /etc/profile

# ==
#MANPATH environment variable
#
# Specifies the list of directories that the system searches for man
# pages (help files). The %L represents the language currently set by
# the LANG environment variable.
# ==
MANPATH=/usr/man/%L
export MANPATH


And you can activate you current conda environment, or well, assuming you
have the rocket software in a file system in $RSOFT and your current
conda environment is xyz, then add

$RSOFT/envs/xyz/share/man into MANPATH wherever you may want it.

There are other man for IBM products.

Peter



//


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Re: omvs man pages

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 21:34:34 +0200, Peter Sylvester wrote:
>>>
>> A more recent edition: 
>> 
>>
>>> BUT - is there a way to update this with additional man pages - say some
>> >from Rocket (i.e. curl) ?M
>
>> Bummer.  I would have hoped for something such as
>>  MANPATH=/usr/man/%L:/usr/lpp/com.rocketsoftward/man
>
>You have that ${ROCKET_FS}/envs/whatever/share/man
>
On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 14:24:39 -0500, Michael Babcock wrote:

>I added the rocket stuff to my MANPATH in my global profile.
>
Please be explicit, perhaps:
MANPATH=/usr/man/%L:${ROCKET_FS}/envs/whatever/share/man
???

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Re: omvs man pages

[Peter Sylvester]

On 15/09/2022 21:18, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:56:38 -0500, Lionel B. Dyck wrote:


This explains how to enable the man pages in omvs
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-pages


A more recent edition: 



BUT - is there a way to update this with additional man pages - say some

>from Rocket (i.e. curl) ?M



Alas, I see: 
:
 ...
 The historical MANPATH variable is not included in POSIX because no 
attempt is
 made to specify naming conventions for reference page files, nor even to 
mandate
 that they are files at all.

Bummer.  I would have hoped for something such as
 MANPATH=/usr/man/%L:/usr/lpp/com.rocketsoftward/man


You have that ${ROCKET_FS}/envs/whatever/share/man

Peter

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Re: omvs man pages

[Michael Babcock]

I added the rocket stuff to my MANPATH in my global profile.

On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 1:57 PM Lionel B. Dyck  wrote:

> This explains how to enable the man pages in omvs
> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-pages
>
> BUT - is there a way to update this with additional man pages - say some
> from Rocket (i.e. curl) ?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Lionel B. Dyck <><
> Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
> Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
>
> “Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what
> you
> are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
-- 
Michael Babcock
OneMain Financial
z/OS Systems Programmer, Lead

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Re: omvs man pages

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:56:38 -0500, Lionel B. Dyck wrote:

>This explains how to enable the man pages in omvs
>https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-pages
>
A more recent edition: 


>BUT - is there a way to update this with additional man pages - say some
>from Rocket (i.e. curl) ?
>
Alas, I see: 
:
...
The historical MANPATH variable is not included in POSIX because no attempt 
is
made to specify naming conventions for reference page files, nor even to 
mandate
that they are files at all. 

Bummer.  I would have hoped for something such as
MANPATH=/usr/man/%L:/usr/lpp/com.rocketsoftward/man

Are the Bookie pages formatted on-the-fly or are formatted versions cached?

>Lionel B. Dyck <><
>Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
>Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

-- 
gil

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omvs man pages

[Lionel B. Dyck]

This explains how to enable the man pages in omvs
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topic=utilities-enabling-man-pages

BUT - is there a way to update this with additional man pages - say some
from Rocket (i.e. curl) ?

Thanks


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

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