Re: Volume compare utility

[Mike Schwab]

One thing you might do is compare the last backup before the move with the
first backup on the new hardware.  If you did a backup before starting
transactions on the new hardware, it should be identical or the differences
should be what was processed in that time period.

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 00:04 Tim Hare  wrote:

> I don't think we had the number of volumes Skip has, but we did several
> migrations using short-term leases of FDRPAS and they all went extremely
> well;  the great thing about FDRPAS is that you don't need to do most of it
> during "down time".
>
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Re: Volume compare utility

[Tim Hare]

I don't think we had the number of volumes Skip has, but we did several 
migrations using short-term leases of FDRPAS and they all went extremely well;  
the great thing about FDRPAS is that you don't need to do most of it during 
"down time".

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Re: Volume compare utility

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

We finally decided that with the number of volumes involved--thousands--no 
comparison tool could complete within a reasonable window. So we held our 
breath and took the plunge. We succeeded. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Ron 
Hawkins
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 10:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility

Jesse,

I may be late to the party, but did you look at using DISKCOMP on from CBT?


RON HAWKINS
Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971)
m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, 18 June 2019 06:25
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Volume compare utility

We have been devoted fans and customers of TDMF since long before IBM acquired 
it. I stand in awe of its magical properties. But it is a bit clumsy when 
copying/moving thousands of volumes shared by many LPARs. The method we used 
this time was far more suited to our purpose. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 8:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility

"What" should have been "way" !

Jerry Whitteridge
Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect
GTS - Safeway Account
602 527 4871 Mobile
jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com

IBM Services

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
06/17/2019 08:29:34 AM:

> From: Jerry Whitteridge 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 06/17/2019 08:30 AM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility Sent by: IBM Mainframe 
> Discussion List 
>
> In the (distant) past we've been able to get a temporary license from 
> the vendor of the target disk for TDMF as part of the deal - might be 
> one
what
> of you getting a portion of your bridge.
>
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect GTS - Safeway Account
> 602 527 4871 Mobile
> jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com
>
> IBM Services
>
> IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
> 06/16/2019 01:16:35 PM:
>
> > From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Date: 06/16/2019 01:16 PM
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility Sent by: IBM 
> > Mainframe Discussion List 
> >
> > Maybe if I could throw in the Brooklyn Bridge...
> >
> > .
> > .
> > J.O.Skip Robinson
> > Southern California Edison Company
> > Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> > SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> > 323-715-0595 Mobile
> > 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> > robin...@sce.com


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Re: Volume compare utility

[Ron Hawkins]

Jesse,

I may be late to the party, but did you look at using DISKCOMP on from CBT?


RON HAWKINS
Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971)
m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, 18 June 2019 06:25
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Volume compare utility

We have been devoted fans and customers of TDMF since long before IBM acquired 
it. I stand in awe of its magical properties. But it is a bit clumsy when 
copying/moving thousands of volumes shared by many LPARs. The method we used 
this time was far more suited to our purpose. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 8:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility

"What" should have been "way" !

Jerry Whitteridge
Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect
GTS - Safeway Account
602 527 4871 Mobile
jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com

IBM Services

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
06/17/2019 08:29:34 AM:

> From: Jerry Whitteridge 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 06/17/2019 08:30 AM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility Sent by: IBM Mainframe 
> Discussion List 
>
> In the (distant) past we've been able to get a temporary license from 
> the vendor of the target disk for TDMF as part of the deal - might be 
> one
what
> of you getting a portion of your bridge.
>
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect GTS - Safeway Account
> 602 527 4871 Mobile
> jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com
>
> IBM Services
>
> IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
> 06/16/2019 01:16:35 PM:
>
> > From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Date: 06/16/2019 01:16 PM
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility Sent by: IBM 
> > Mainframe Discussion List 
> >
> > Maybe if I could throw in the Brooklyn Bridge...
> >
> > .
> > .
> > J.O.Skip Robinson
> > Southern California Edison Company
> > Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> > SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> > 323-715-0595 Mobile
> > 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> > robin...@sce.com

--
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Re: Volume compare utility

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

We have been devoted fans and customers of TDMF since long before IBM acquired 
it. I stand in awe of its magical properties. But it is a bit clumsy when 
copying/moving thousands of volumes shared by many LPARs. The method we used 
this time was far more suited to our purpose. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 8:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility

"What" should have been "way" !

Jerry Whitteridge
Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect
GTS - Safeway Account
602 527 4871 Mobile
jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com

IBM Services

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
06/17/2019 08:29:34 AM:

> From: Jerry Whitteridge 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 06/17/2019 08:30 AM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility Sent by: IBM Mainframe 
> Discussion List 
>
> In the (distant) past we've been able to get a temporary license from 
> the vendor of the target disk for TDMF as part of the deal - might be 
> one
what
> of you getting a portion of your bridge.
>
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect GTS - Safeway Account
> 602 527 4871 Mobile
> jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com
>
> IBM Services
>
> IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
> 06/16/2019 01:16:35 PM:
>
> > From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Date: 06/16/2019 01:16 PM
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility Sent by: IBM 
> > Mainframe Discussion List 
> >
> > Maybe if I could throw in the Brooklyn Bridge...
> >
> > .
> > .
> > J.O.Skip Robinson
> > Southern California Edison Company
> > Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> > SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> > 323-715-0595 Mobile
> > 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> > robin...@sce.com

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Volume compare utility

[Jerry Whitteridge]

"What" should have been "way" !

Jerry Whitteridge
Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect
GTS - Safeway Account
602 527 4871 Mobile
jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com

IBM Services

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
06/17/2019 08:29:34 AM:

> From: Jerry Whitteridge 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 06/17/2019 08:30 AM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>
> In the (distant) past we've been able to get a temporary license from the
> vendor of the target disk for TDMF as part of the deal - might be one
what
> of you getting a portion of your bridge.
>
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect
> GTS - Safeway Account
> 602 527 4871 Mobile
> jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com
>
> IBM Services
>
> IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
> 06/16/2019 01:16:35 PM:
>
> > From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Date: 06/16/2019 01:16 PM
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility
> > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> >
> > Maybe if I could throw in the Brooklyn Bridge...
> >
> > .
> > .
> > J.O.Skip Robinson
> > Southern California Edison Company
> > Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> > SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> > 323-715-0595 Mobile
> > 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> > robin...@sce.com
> >
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Volume compare utility

[Jerry Whitteridge]

In the (distant) past we've been able to get a temporary license from the
vendor of the target disk for TDMF as part of the deal - might be one what
of you getting a portion of your bridge.

Jerry Whitteridge
Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect
GTS - Safeway Account
602 527 4871 Mobile
jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com

IBM Services

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
06/16/2019 01:16:35 PM:

> From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 06/16/2019 01:16 PM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>
> Maybe if I could throw in the Brooklyn Bridge...
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
>

--
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Re: Volume compare utility

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Maybe if I could throw in the Brooklyn Bridge...

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Zelden
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2019 10:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 17:08:42 +, Jesse 1 Robinson  
wrote:

>We've upgraded DASD subsystems several times over the years. As I 
>whined several months ago, the process is complicated here by a chronic 
>over-supply of smallish volumes that need to be replicated to the new 
>hardware one way or another. (Consolidating smaller volumes into larger 
>3390x units would solve the problem, but that would be hugely 
>disruptive to applications; a very hard sell.)
>

So have you ever tried to "sell" doing it with LDMF or FDRPAS / FDRMOVE?  I've 
used those tools in the past (not FDRMOVE yet).  


Regards,

Mark


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Re: Volume compare utility

[Mark Zelden]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 17:08:42 +, Jesse 1 Robinson  
wrote:

>We've upgraded DASD subsystems several times over the years. As I whined 
>several months ago, the process is complicated here by a chronic over-supply 
>of smallish volumes that need to be replicated to the new hardware one way or 
>another. (Consolidating smaller volumes into larger 3390x units would solve 
>the problem, but that would be hugely disruptive to applications; a very hard 
>sell.) 
>

So have you ever tried to "sell" doing it with LDMF or FDRPAS / FDRMOVE?  I've 
used
those tools in the past (not FDRMOVE yet).  


Regards,

Mark
--
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ITIL v3 Foundation Certified
mailto:m...@mzelden.com
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html
Systems Programming expert at http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/
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Re: Volume compare utility

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

We've upgraded DASD subsystems several times over the years. As I whined 
several months ago, the process is complicated here by a chronic over-supply of 
smallish volumes that need to be replicated to the new hardware one way or 
another. (Consolidating smaller volumes into larger 3390x units would solve the 
problem, but that would be hugely disruptive to applications; a very hard 
sell.) 

This upgrade required moving thousands of 3390 volumes to new unit addresses in 
the new subsystem, which mandated IPLing with a new IODF. We had earlier done 
this with a subset of DASD dedicated to sandbox and development, so we had a 
few LPARs that did not need to be changed again. These unaffected LPARs were 
all located on one CEC, but we had a second CEC whose LPARs were all affected 
by the change. 

So following the procedure outlined by Mike below, we copied all (remaining) 
volumes via PPRC. We then had to IPL all affected LPARs with a new IODF. On the 
CEC with unaffected LPARs, we ACTIVATEd the new IODF via OS command. On the 
other CEC, however, where we had no unaffected LPARs, we had to POR to get the 
new IODF into HSA before IPLing. 

This sounds complicated, but it was all planned and orchestrated over several 
months. The big-bang cutover itself lasted only a few hours. DR DASD was 
resynched within another few hours, so we had minimal exposure to data center 
failure. Most of the heavy lifting was performed by my colleagues, who deserve 
*huge* credit for conceiving and executing the plan. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 1:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility

Usually you can create the PPRC pairs, give the devices time to catch up the 
replication, then shut down, wait for replication to complete, swap the PPRC 
pairs to the new device, and IPL from the new devices with one hour or less 
additional downtime over your normal IPL times.

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 4:56 PM Jesse 1 Robinson  
wrote:
>
> Thanks!
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> Behalf Of Jerry Whitteridge
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 4:16 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility
>
> Good to hear it went well Skip
>
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect GTS - Safeway Account
> 602 527 4871 Mobile
> jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com
>
> IBM Services
>
> IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
> 06/14/2019 03:44:07 PM:
>
> > From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Date: 06/14/2019 03:44 PM
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility Sent by: IBM 
> > Mainframe Discussion List 
> >
> > This thread was originally motivated by needing to move from an 
> > older
> > DS8 subsystem to a new one. We've done this repeatedly over the 
> > years with a combination of utilities and IPLs spread over several months.
> > The goal this time was to do it in a big bang allowing for several 
> > hours of down time but otherwise all in one single window. The 
> > problem with our old way of doing things was that we would encounter 
> > many separate periods of DR risk where we could not recover the 
> > entire production environment. This time, by using PPRC with all 
> > systems down, there was no risk window since no data updates could 
> > occur in the meantime.
> >
> > I'm happy to report that the new procedure worked. We abandoned the 
> > idea of 'comparing volumes' as taking too long with minimal payback.
> > We shut it all down, synched up data volumes via PPRC, and IPLed 
> > everybody with an IODF that contained the new DS8 in place of the old.
> > It went even smoother that we hoped for. Lots of planning and desk 
> > checking, no serious oversights.
> >
> > Thanks to all who contributed to this project!
> >
> 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA

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Re: Volume compare utility

[Mike Schwab]

Usually you can create the PPRC pairs, give the devices time to catch
up the replication, then shut down, wait for replication to complete,
swap the PPRC pairs to the new device, and IPL from the new devices
with one hour or less additional downtime over your normal IPL times.

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 4:56 PM Jesse 1 Robinson
 wrote:
>
> Thanks!
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 4:16 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility
>
> Good to hear it went well Skip
>
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect
> GTS - Safeway Account
> 602 527 4871 Mobile
> jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com
>
> IBM Services
>
> IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
> 06/14/2019 03:44:07 PM:
>
> > From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Date: 06/14/2019 03:44 PM
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility Sent by: IBM Mainframe
> > Discussion List 
> >
> > This thread was originally motivated by needing to move from an older
> > DS8 subsystem to a new one. We've done this repeatedly over the years
> > with a combination of utilities and IPLs spread over several months.
> > The goal this time was to do it in a big bang allowing for several
> > hours of down time but otherwise all in one single window. The problem
> > with our old way of doing things was that we would encounter many
> > separate periods of DR risk where we could not recover the entire
> > production environment. This time, by using PPRC with all systems
> > down, there was no risk window since no data updates could occur in
> > the meantime.
> >
> > I'm happy to report that the new procedure worked. We abandoned the
> > idea of 'comparing volumes' as taking too long with minimal payback.
> > We shut it all down, synched up data volumes via PPRC, and IPLed
> > everybody with an IODF that contained the new DS8 in place of the old.
> > It went even smoother that we hoped for. Lots of planning and desk
> > checking, no serious oversights.
> >
> > Thanks to all who contributed to this project!
> >
> 
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Volume compare utility

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Thanks!

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 4:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility

Good to hear it went well Skip

Jerry Whitteridge
Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect
GTS - Safeway Account
602 527 4871 Mobile
jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com

IBM Services

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
06/14/2019 03:44:07 PM:

> From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 06/14/2019 03:44 PM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility Sent by: IBM Mainframe 
> Discussion List 
>
> This thread was originally motivated by needing to move from an older 
> DS8 subsystem to a new one. We've done this repeatedly over the years 
> with a combination of utilities and IPLs spread over several months. 
> The goal this time was to do it in a big bang allowing for several 
> hours of down time but otherwise all in one single window. The problem 
> with our old way of doing things was that we would encounter many 
> separate periods of DR risk where we could not recover the entire 
> production environment. This time, by using PPRC with all systems 
> down, there was no risk window since no data updates could occur in 
> the meantime.
>
> I'm happy to report that the new procedure worked. We abandoned the 
> idea of 'comparing volumes' as taking too long with minimal payback.
> We shut it all down, synched up data volumes via PPRC, and IPLed 
> everybody with an IODF that contained the new DS8 in place of the old. 
> It went even smoother that we hoped for. Lots of planning and desk 
> checking, no serious oversights.
>
> Thanks to all who contributed to this project!
>


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Volume compare utility

[Jerry Whitteridge]

Good to hear it went well Skip

Jerry Whitteridge
Delivery Manager / Mainframe Architect
GTS - Safeway Account
602 527 4871 Mobile
jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com

IBM Services

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
06/14/2019 03:44:07 PM:

> From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 06/14/2019 03:44 PM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Volume compare utility
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>
> This thread was originally motivated by needing to move from an
> older DS8 subsystem to a new one. We've done this repeatedly over
> the years with a combination of utilities and IPLs spread over
> several months. The goal this time was to do it in a big bang
> allowing for several hours of down time but otherwise all in one
> single window. The problem with our old way of doing things was that
> we would encounter many separate periods of DR risk where we could
> not recover the entire production environment. This time, by using
> PPRC with all systems down, there was no risk window since no data
> updates could occur in the meantime.
>
> I'm happy to report that the new procedure worked. We abandoned the
> idea of 'comparing volumes' as taking too long with minimal payback.
> We shut it all down, synched up data volumes via PPRC, and IPLed
> everybody with an IODF that contained the new DS8 in place of the
> old. It went even smoother that we hoped for. Lots of planning and
> desk checking, no serious oversights.
>
> Thanks to all who contributed to this project!
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 1:58 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility
>
> Success! We did the first 50+% this weekend (non-prod) in a little
> over four hours total. Forewent any compare utility as a costly and
> time consuming process of dubious value. Planning on the same
> strategy for the prod farm in the next month or so. Thanks to all
> who contributed.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:36 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility
>
> Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
>
> >Most folks seem to think that we're being a little silly, which is
> actually reassuring.
>
> No, you are NOT silly. Trust me. Actually I appreciate your posts
> here in IBM-MAIN.
>
>
> >I did get one off-list offer of a product that that sounds pretty
> >great, but we may just suck it up pretend we're grownups.  
>
> Now and then I got similar off-list spam from IBM-MAIN members who
> wants to try sell me a [junk?] product or two.
>
> Like you, I just suck it up because I am grownup ( ok, sort off :-D
> ), or actually, I am not in a position to say to my management, "buy
> this spammy thing".
>
> Groete / Greetings
> Elardus Engelbrecht
>
> PS: some years ago, an IBM-MAIN member [0] spammed me for about 6+
> months trying to sell me a crappy product despite that I politely
> told him the first time that I cannot accept his offers because I am
> too low in the food chain to accept/recommend his spam z/OS products.
>
> [0] - I see this spammer is silent/lurking on IBM-MAIN these last
> few months. Am I happy or am I that happy? ;-)
>
>
>
> --
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Re: Volume compare utility

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

This thread was originally motivated by needing to move from an older DS8 
subsystem to a new one. We've done this repeatedly over the years with a 
combination of utilities and IPLs spread over several months. The goal this 
time was to do it in a big bang allowing for several hours of down time but 
otherwise all in one single window. The problem with our old way of doing 
things was that we would encounter many separate periods of DR risk where we 
could not recover the entire production environment. This time, by using PPRC 
with all systems down, there was no risk window since no data updates could 
occur in the meantime. 

I'm happy to report that the new procedure worked. We abandoned the idea of 
'comparing volumes' as taking too long with minimal payback. We shut it all 
down, synched up data volumes via PPRC, and IPLed everybody with an IODF that 
contained the new DS8 in place of the old. It went even smoother that we hoped 
for. Lots of planning and desk checking, no serious oversights. 

Thanks to all who contributed to this project!  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 1:58 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility

Success! We did the first 50+% this weekend (non-prod) in a little over four 
hours total. Forewent any compare utility as a costly and time consuming 
process of dubious value. Planning on the same strategy for the prod farm in 
the next month or so. Thanks to all who contributed. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Elardus Engelbrecht
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility

Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

>Most folks seem to think that we're being a little silly, which is actually 
>reassuring. 

No, you are NOT silly. Trust me. Actually I appreciate your posts here in 
IBM-MAIN.


>I did get one off-list offer of a product that that sounds pretty 
>great, but we may just suck it up pretend we're grownups.  

Now and then I got similar off-list spam from IBM-MAIN members who wants to try 
sell me a [junk?] product or two.

Like you, I just suck it up because I am grownup ( ok, sort off :-D ), or 
actually, I am not in a position to say to my management, "buy this spammy 
thing".

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

PS: some years ago, an IBM-MAIN member [0] spammed me for about 6+ months 
trying to sell me a crappy product despite that I politely told him the first 
time that I cannot accept his offers because I am too low in the food chain to 
accept/recommend his spam z/OS products.

[0] - I see this spammer is silent/lurking on IBM-MAIN these last few months. 
Am I happy or am I that happy? ;-)



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Re: Volume compare utility

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Success! We did the first 50+% this weekend (non-prod) in a little over four 
hours total. Forewent any compare utility as a costly and time consuming 
process of dubious value. Planning on the same strategy for the prod farm in 
the next month or so. Thanks to all who contributed. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Elardus Engelbrecht
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility

Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

>Most folks seem to think that we're being a little silly, which is actually 
>reassuring. 

No, you are NOT silly. Trust me. Actually I appreciate your posts here in 
IBM-MAIN.


>I did get one off-list offer of a product that that sounds pretty 
>great, but we may just suck it up pretend we're grownups.  

Now and then I got similar off-list spam from IBM-MAIN members who wants to try 
sell me a [junk?] product or two.

Like you, I just suck it up because I am grownup ( ok, sort off :-D ), or 
actually, I am not in a position to say to my management, "buy this spammy 
thing".

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

PS: some years ago, an IBM-MAIN member [0] spammed me for about 6+ months 
trying to sell me a crappy product despite that I politely told him the first 
time that I cannot accept his offers because I am too low in the food chain to 
accept/recommend his spam z/OS products.

[0] - I see this spammer is silent/lurking on IBM-MAIN these last few months. 
Am I happy or am I that happy? ;-)



--
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Re: Volume compare utility

[Stuart zseries]

If you still have my libraries around, I had a utility to do this. I 
think it was called COMPDASD (or maybe SCECOMPD?). The JCL to run it 
would have had the same name. Email me if you want details.

On 4/22/19 4:51 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> Sorry for not taking the time to search the archives for this. We're shortly 
> moving from one DS8 DASD subsystem to another via global mirroring (PPRC). We 
> have the process worked out, but we're looking for the quickest possible way 
> to verify that the copy of a volume is identical to the original. Systems 
> will be down for the duration, so a utility that will simply compare two 
> volumes-for example track by track-in the shortest elapsed time will win. On 
> account of systems being down.
>
> Of course the deadline is looming. TIA.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
> robin...@sce.com
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Volume compare utility

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

>Most folks seem to think that we're being a little silly, which is actually 
>reassuring. 

No, you are NOT silly. Trust me. Actually I appreciate your posts here in 
IBM-MAIN.


>I did get one off-list offer of a product that that sounds pretty great, but 
>we may just suck it up pretend we're grownups.    

Now and then I got similar off-list spam from IBM-MAIN members who wants to try 
sell me a [junk?] product or two.

Like you, I just suck it up because I am grownup ( ok, sort off :-D ), or 
actually, I am not in a position to say to my management, "buy this spammy 
thing".

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

PS: some years ago, an IBM-MAIN member [0] spammed me for about 6+ months 
trying to sell me a crappy product despite that I politely told him the first 
time that I cannot accept his offers because I am too low in the food chain to 
accept/recommend his spam z/OS products.

[0] - I see this spammer is silent/lurking on IBM-MAIN these last few months. 
Am I happy or am I that happy? ;-)

--
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Re: Volume compare utility

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis. Our excessive caution stems from our being 
novices with PPRC and the fact that we're doing production this time. We did 
the DR site a while back knowing that any discrepancy could be overwritten by 
XRC mirroring. 

Most folks seem to think that we're being a little silly, which is actually 
reassuring. We have T's of volumes and a limited window.  I did get one 
off-list offer of a product that that sounds pretty great, but we may just suck 
it up pretend we're grownups.    

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 8:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Volume compare utility

Indeed, such tool is usually not needed, it is enough to know the copy service 
ended with RC=0. It can be FlashCopy, TF/Clone, SRDF, PPRC, XRC, Shadowimage.
One see the job finished with not errors so he's pretty sure that source and 
target volumes are the same.

However let's assume the copy was performed week ago, by Frankie. And Frankie 
is out of office. How can we be sure volume A has exactly the same content as 
volume B? There several ways:
a) use some tool which Jesse asked about (however I don't know any).
b) perform the copy again just to create new copy. Sounds overkill, but the 
tool above would generate at least the same I/O.
c) create dump of both volumes and compare them i.e. using some hash function. 
Even more I/O and CPU cycles. The advantage is the volumes can be online to 
different system (local and remote) and each of them compute its own hash for 
comparison. At the time of verification no connectivity between local and 
remote DASD is required.


My €0.02

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland







W dniu 2019-04-23 o 22:13, Laurence Chiu pisze:
> We are about to replace our DS8870 in the DR site with a new DS8886. This
> is currently in a Metro Mirror relationship with production. We will copy
> from the old SAN to the new SAN using Global Copy and then start a Metro
> Mirror session from the production SAN to the new SAN. This is all using
> Copy Services Manager. I must admit nobody has ever considered having to do
> a track compare following the copy since that means you don't think any of
> the copy services manager copy products have sufficient checking in them.
>
> This is especially true when we regularly flash copy from our production
> copy to a third copy and IPL our host from them.
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 11:52 AM Jesse 1 Robinson 
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry for not taking the time to search the archives for this. We're
>> shortly moving from one DS8 DASD subsystem to another via global mirroring
>> (PPRC). We have the process worked out, but we're looking for the quickest
>> possible way to verify that the copy of a volume is identical to the
>> original. Systems will be down for the duration, so a utility that will
>> simply compare two volumes-for example track by track-in the shortest
>> elapsed time will win. On account of systems being down.
>>
>> Of course the deadline is looming. TIA.
>>
>> .
>> .
>> J.O.Skip Robinson
>> Southern California Edison Company
>> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
>> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
>> 323-715-0595 Mobile
>> 626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
>> robin...@sce.com<mailto:robin...@sce.com>


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Re: Volume compare utility

[R.S.]

Indeed, such tool is usually not needed, it is enough to know the copy 
service ended with RC=0. It can be FlashCopy, TF/Clone, SRDF, PPRC, XRC, 
Shadowimage.
One see the job finished with not errors so he's pretty sure that source 
and target volumes are the same.


However let's assume the copy was performed week ago, by Frankie. And 
Frankie is out of office. How can we be sure volume A has exactly the 
same content as volume B? There several ways:

a) use some tool which Jesse asked about (however I don't know any).
b) perform the copy again just to create new copy. Sounds overkill, but 
the tool above would generate at least the same I/O.
c) create dump of both volumes and compare them i.e. using some hash 
function. Even more I/O and CPU cycles. The advantage is the volumes can 
be online to different system (local and remote) and each of them 
compute its own hash for comparison. At the time of verification no 
connectivity between local and remote DASD is required.



My €0.02

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland







W dniu 2019-04-23 o 22:13, Laurence Chiu pisze:

We are about to replace our DS8870 in the DR site with a new DS8886. This
is currently in a Metro Mirror relationship with production. We will copy
from the old SAN to the new SAN using Global Copy and then start a Metro
Mirror session from the production SAN to the new SAN. This is all using
Copy Services Manager. I must admit nobody has ever considered having to do
a track compare following the copy since that means you don't think any of
the copy services manager copy products have sufficient checking in them.

This is especially true when we regularly flash copy from our production
copy to a third copy and IPL our host from them.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 11:52 AM Jesse 1 Robinson 
wrote:


Sorry for not taking the time to search the archives for this. We're
shortly moving from one DS8 DASD subsystem to another via global mirroring
(PPRC). We have the process worked out, but we're looking for the quickest
possible way to verify that the copy of a volume is identical to the
original. Systems will be down for the duration, so a utility that will
simply compare two volumes-for example track by track-in the shortest
elapsed time will win. On account of systems being down.

Of course the deadline is looming. TIA.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
robin...@sce.com




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Re: Volume compare utility

[Laurence Chiu]

We are about to replace our DS8870 in the DR site with a new DS8886. This
is currently in a Metro Mirror relationship with production. We will copy
from the old SAN to the new SAN using Global Copy and then start a Metro
Mirror session from the production SAN to the new SAN. This is all using
Copy Services Manager. I must admit nobody has ever considered having to do
a track compare following the copy since that means you don't think any of
the copy services manager copy products have sufficient checking in them.

This is especially true when we regularly flash copy from our production
copy to a third copy and IPL our host from them.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 11:52 AM Jesse 1 Robinson 
wrote:

> Sorry for not taking the time to search the archives for this. We're
> shortly moving from one DS8 DASD subsystem to another via global mirroring
> (PPRC). We have the process worked out, but we're looking for the quickest
> possible way to verify that the copy of a volume is identical to the
> original. Systems will be down for the duration, so a utility that will
> simply compare two volumes-for example track by track-in the shortest
> elapsed time will win. On account of systems being down.
>
> Of course the deadline is looming. TIA.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
> robin...@sce.com
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Volume compare utility

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Sorry for not taking the time to search the archives for this. We're shortly 
moving from one DS8 DASD subsystem to another via global mirroring (PPRC). We 
have the process worked out, but we're looking for the quickest possible way to 
verify that the copy of a volume is identical to the original. Systems will be 
down for the duration, so a utility that will simply compare two volumes-for 
example track by track-in the shortest elapsed time will win. On account of 
systems being down.

Of course the deadline is looming. TIA.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
robin...@sce.com


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