Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-18 Thread Mike Schwab
Have you tried to run it on z/OS 2.1 / 2.2 / 2.3?  That is a supported
combination.

On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 3:09 PM Gibney, Dave  wrote:
>
> Their app not supporting z/OS 2.2 in not necessarily equal to won't run on 
> z/OS 2.2
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of R Hey
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 12:51 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex
> >
> > Yes, HSM is used, but not installed/used during my tests.
> > I didn't do much with zos 2.3, didn't create new DS in CAT's, etc.
> > Just log'd on to TSO/SDSF to look at syslog.
> > Client is forced to use 1.13 due to their APP not supporting zos 22. They 
> > are
> > planning to upgrade it, but could take a while.
> > Decision has been made to move all zos 1.13 LPARs to a separate plex.
> >
> > cheers
> >
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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-18 Thread Gibney, Dave
Their app not supporting z/OS 2.2 in not necessarily equal to won't run on z/OS 
2.2

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of R Hey
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 12:51 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex
> 
> Yes, HSM is used, but not installed/used during my tests.
> I didn't do much with zos 2.3, didn't create new DS in CAT's, etc.
> Just log'd on to TSO/SDSF to look at syslog.
> Client is forced to use 1.13 due to their APP not supporting zos 22. They are
> planning to upgrade it, but could take a while.
> Decision has been made to move all zos 1.13 LPARs to a separate plex.
> 
> cheers
> 
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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-18 Thread R Hey
Yes, HSM is used, but not installed/used during my tests. 
I didn't do much with zos 2.3, didn't create new DS in CAT's, etc.
Just log'd on to TSO/SDSF to look at syslog. 
Client is forced to use 1.13 due to their APP not supporting zos 22. They are 
planning to upgrade it, but could take a while.
Decision has been made to move all zos 1.13 LPARs to a separate plex. 

cheers

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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-18 Thread Wayne Driscoll
Right, they don't say it won't work, but if it doesn’t, and something breaks, 
they aren't going to do anything to help you put the pieces back together.
Wayne Driscoll
Rocket Software
Note - All opinions are strictly my own.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Jacobs
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 7:06 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

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Until some shared resource breaks. Not saying it'll happen, but it might.

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‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 3:14 AM, Brian Westerman 
 wrote:

> I don't think there is any check for that. I believe that z/OS isn't that 
> smart when it comes to figuring that stuff out, and actually I can't really 
> think of a reason why it wouldn't work. Remember, just because IBM doesn't 
> say they "support" something, doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work.
>
> Brian
>
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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-18 Thread R.S.

Out of curiosity: what is the reason?
Why to connect 3 different system levels in one sysplex?
It is unsupported - we know that.
It is somehow hard.
It is somehow risky - we are aware about that also .

Why not upgrade 1.13 system to current one and then connect it to the 
sysplex?
Yes, upgrade require some work to do, but it is IMHO much more 
straightforward than connecting unsupported system to unsupported and 
delicate, and complex configuration.


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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-18 Thread Lou Losee
the error description indicates that 1.13 is too downlevel for the
aggregate version:

Description: New version aggregates cannot be processed on this system.

Action: If this is a primary mount, re-issue the mount on a system that
supports higher version aggregates. If this is a catchup mount, no action is
needed. z/OS UNIX will function ship operations to the z/OS UNIX owner.
--
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
  - Unknown


On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 7:35 AM Allan Staller  wrote:

> TSO BPXMTEXT EF096A32 will tell you exactly why the file system was not
> mounted.
> I haven't looked, but IIRC error code 79 indicates some sort of "file not
> found" (???) error.
>
> HTH,
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of R Hey
> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 5:59 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex
>
> I had build a new plex on zos 1.13, new CF, XCF CDS, SMS, RMM, RACF, Mcat,
> etc, with only 1 LPAR in it.
> IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 22 sysres/Mcat: OK IPL’d the same LPAR with
> zos 23 sysres/Mcat: OK IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 22 sysres/Mcat: OK
>
> IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 1.13 sysres/Mcat: NOT OK  !
> Failed to mount plex root ZFS, ETC, VAR, … BPXF002I  code 79 reason
> EF096A32
>
> Created new ZFS, IPL 1.13 : OK
>
> cheers
>
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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-18 Thread Allan Staller
TSO BPXMTEXT EF096A32 will tell you exactly why the file system was not mounted.
I haven't looked, but IIRC error code 79 indicates some sort of "file not 
found" (???) error.

HTH,



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of R 
Hey
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 5:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

I had build a new plex on zos 1.13, new CF, XCF CDS, SMS, RMM, RACF, Mcat, etc, 
with only 1 LPAR in it.
IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 22 sysres/Mcat: OK IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 23 
sysres/Mcat: OK IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 22 sysres/Mcat: OK

IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 1.13 sysres/Mcat: NOT OK  !
Failed to mount plex root ZFS, ETC, VAR, … BPXF002I  code 79 reason EF096A32

Created new ZFS, IPL 1.13 : OK

cheers

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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-18 Thread Jousma, David
So, you just found an incompatibility in ZFS, and found a way out, luckily.   
It’s the other resources that are shared that are going to cause you problems.

Are you a DFHSM user?  How current are you on maintenance in your lpars?  I 
will tell you for fact that if you are an HSM user, there was maintenance in 
V2.2/V2.3 about a year or so ago that changed the structure of the MCDS.   
Datasets would not recall on systems that do NOT have that maintenance, or the 
toleration for it.I suspect that those PTF's never got pushed down to 
V1.13.  The reason I know this, is that there was a period of time where IBM 
got the hold data on the toleration PTF's wrong, and the minute the maintenance 
hit the first systems in the plex we had the problem.

*These* are the kinds of problems you will run into.   If it were me, and I 
think Brian Westerman probably would say the same, is to put whatever 
application is requiring you to keep 1.13 into its own stand-alone environment. 
 Of course that adds to the complexity of the situation if you are sharing DASD.

_
Dave Jousma
AVP | Manager, Systems Engineering  

Fifth Third Bank  |  1830 East Paris Ave, SE  |  MD RSCB2H  |  Grand Rapids, MI 
49546
616.653.8429  |  fax: 616.653.2717


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of R 
Hey
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 6:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

**CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL**

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I had build a new plex on zos 1.13, new CF, XCF CDS, SMS, RMM, RACF, Mcat, etc, 
with only 1 LPAR in it. 
IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 22 sysres/Mcat: OK IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 23 
sysres/Mcat: OK IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 22 sysres/Mcat: OK 

IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 1.13 sysres/Mcat: NOT OK  !
Failed to mount plex root ZFS, ETC, VAR, … BPXF002I  code 79 reason EF096A32

Created new ZFS, IPL 1.13 : OK

cheers 

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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-17 Thread Brian Westerman
That wait state only applies due to some APAR inconsistencies which don't apply 
to this OP.  They already have 1.13 through 2.2 running together so we can 
safely assume that they complied with the new function APAR issue.  I don't see 
how they can get the wait 082 with just 1.13 and 2.3 (with 2.2 mixed in there 
somewhere).  It's not that 2.3 didn't have any new functions, just none that 
would make this wait state apply.

I would give it a shot, you really don't have anything to lose and so long as 
you do the normal system compatibility stuff (CF's etc.) you should be okay to 
go.  Remember that the levels supported by 2.3 will be higher than 1.13, so you 
have to run at the levels that match between those two, but you obviously know 
about this as you are already running a mixed release sysplex.

Let me know how it goes,

Brian

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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-17 Thread R Hey
I had build a new plex on zos 1.13, new CF, XCF CDS, SMS, RMM, RACF, Mcat, etc, 
with only 1 LPAR in it. 
IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 22 sysres/Mcat: OK 
IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 23 sysres/Mcat: OK 
IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 22 sysres/Mcat: OK 

IPL’d the same LPAR with zos 1.13 sysres/Mcat: NOT OK  !
Failed to mount plex root ZFS, ETC, VAR, … 
BPXF002I  code 79 reason EF096A32

Created new ZFS, IPL 1.13 : OK

cheers 

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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-17 Thread Mike Shorkend
If you try and add an LPAR to a sysplex without having applied the relevant
coexistence maintenance,  you get a 082 wait state at IPL. See
description below.

If you try to add a system that is not even in the compatibility matrix, I
would guess the same...



082
Explanation
The system entering the sysplex is removed to prevent console sysplex data
corruption. The system being
partitioned either requires maintenance to be installed to be able to
coexist with the other systems in the
sysplex, or a system already active in the sysplex requires maintenance to
be installed to be able to coexist with
the failing system. For example, the failing system does not have a
necessary consoles compatibility APAR
installed.
System action
The system entering the sysplex is partitioned from the sysplex and wait
state X'082' is loaded on that system to
prevent global console sysplex data corruption. Message IEA002I is issued
to indicate which system requires
maintenance to be applied and the appropriate APAR to apply.

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 17:16 Charles Mills,  wrote:

> I am not at all an expert on Sysplex compatibility. I bring to the table
> only the knowledge of the IBM policy and years of experience with "how
> things work."
>
> I think the answer is very simple: it might work and it might not. Or,
> more correctly, it might IPL, and if it does, then everything YOU care
> about might work, or on the other hand something might not work.
>
> You have three requirements:
>
> - z/OS 1.13
> - z/OS 2.3
> - Implicitly, mainframe-level quality of service
>
> One of those has to go. Pick one. I would pick 2.3 as the one to go -- you
> may *think* you need it, but I am going to guess you don't need it, you
> want it. And if management insists that 2.3 is not the one to go, then
> mainframe quality of service is going to be the one to go, because
> SOMETHING has to go. When JES2 or RESERVE or whatever breaks, what the heck
> are you going to do?
>
> I'm just re-phrasing what @Mark says below.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Mark Jacobs
> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 5:06 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex
>
> Until some shared resource breaks. Not saying it'll happen, but it might.
>
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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-17 Thread Charles Mills
I am not at all an expert on Sysplex compatibility. I bring to the table only 
the knowledge of the IBM policy and years of experience with "how things work."

I think the answer is very simple: it might work and it might not. Or, more 
correctly, it might IPL, and if it does, then everything YOU care about might 
work, or on the other hand something might not work.

You have three requirements:

- z/OS 1.13
- z/OS 2.3
- Implicitly, mainframe-level quality of service

One of those has to go. Pick one. I would pick 2.3 as the one to go -- you may 
*think* you need it, but I am going to guess you don't need it, you want it. 
And if management insists that 2.3 is not the one to go, then mainframe quality 
of service is going to be the one to go, because SOMETHING has to go. When JES2 
or RESERVE or whatever breaks, what the heck are you going to do?

I'm just re-phrasing what @Mark says below.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mark Jacobs
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 5:06 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

Until some shared resource breaks. Not saying it'll happen, but it might.

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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-17 Thread Parwez Hamid
Add to this the H/W and CFCC levels of the different systems. While the 
'newest' release of z/OS in the Sysplex will support the highest level of the 
CFCC level in the Sysplex, does 1.13 support it?

IBM normally tests up to n-2 levels/generations of OS and H/W. Combination of 
older levels MAY work. If it doesn't, then you are on your own.

Regards

Parwez Hamid​


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Mark Jacobs <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: 17 December 2019 13:06
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

Until some shared resource breaks. Not saying it'll happen, but it might.

Mark Jacobs

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‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 3:14 AM, Brian Westerman 
 wrote:

> I don't think there is any check for that. I believe that z/OS isn't that 
> smart when it comes to figuring that stuff out, and actually I can't really 
> think of a reason why it wouldn't work. Remember, just because IBM doesn't 
> say they "support" something, doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work.
>
> Brian
>
> 
>
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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-17 Thread Mark Jacobs
Until some shared resource breaks. Not saying it'll happen, but it might.

Mark Jacobs

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‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 3:14 AM, Brian Westerman 
 wrote:

> I don't think there is any check for that. I believe that z/OS isn't that 
> smart when it comes to figuring that stuff out, and actually I can't really 
> think of a reason why it wouldn't work. Remember, just because IBM doesn't 
> say they "support" something, doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work.
>
> Brian
>
> 
>
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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-17 Thread Brian Westerman
I don't think there is any check for that.  I believe that z/OS isn't that 
smart when it comes to figuring that stuff out, and actually I can't really 
think of a reason why it wouldn't work.  Remember, just because IBM doesn't say 
they "support" something, doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work.

Brian

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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-15 Thread Jim Elliott
Not only is z/OS 1.13 not supported in the same sysplex with z/OS 2.3, I am 
pretty sure it won’t work. Every release has sysplex changes which often 
(always?) require PTFs to the prior 2 releases to participate in the same 
sysplex. Even if no PTFs are required, I suspect z/OS checks to see the release 
levels in the sysplex members and would not allow this configuration.

Regards, Jim

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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-15 Thread R Hey
Thanks Mark,
Yes, I know.
My client is forced to use zos 1.13 for a while, they use it with with zos 2.2  
in the same plex, which needs to be moved to zos 2.3.
Cheers


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Re: ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-15 Thread Mark Jacobs
I assume you know that it's not a supported configuration. z/OS 1.13 is also 
out of support and there's no compatibility maintenance with z/OS 2.3 available 
(AFAIK).

Mark Jacobs

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‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 6:59 PM, R Hey 
<00bb27d4e6cb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Hi,
> Has anybody used these 3 versions of zos in 1 sysplex (CF, SMS, HSM, Ucats, 
> etc ...) ?
> Cheers,
> Reza
>
> 
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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ZOS 1.13 2.2 2.3 in the same sysplex

2019-12-15 Thread R Hey
Hi,
Has anybody used these 3 versions of zos in 1 sysplex (CF, SMS, HSM, Ucats, etc 
...) ?
Cheers,
Reza

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