Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please
What I hate are people who take one of my jobs, modify it, and bomplain about it when their changes don't work' "Which part of as-is don't you understand?" -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Pommier, Rex [rpomm...@sfgmembers.com] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 4:28 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please Sorry, I'm going to "rag" on a language... :-) Admittedly I know next to nothing about it. My exposure to it consists of reading an article where somebody took a 14 line JCL job and converted it to JOL and the JOL code ended up somewhere around 70+ lines plus comments to explain what the program was doing. It appears that JOL now does a lot more than it used to do the last time I actually looked at it. However, in JCL's defense, how many people actually build jobs (especially more complex multi-step jobs with IF/THEN, conditional execution, etc. from scratch? Same as with a typical Cobol program, you take an existing program or JCL member and modify it to fit your needs. How many people here use JCL (whether you like it or hate it) on a regular basis? It's ubiquitous. How many use JOL? Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 3:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fjol.oscar-jol.com%2Fabout-jol__%3B!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!vGAo09RSRyegMrA-_z-guiaGvhkdNPyxpge54CfqCQvUuwDKJzELN2R4OZtsAhm19487HzuIfdXymkh3cCArALgCDA%24=05%7C01%7Csmetz3%40gmu.edu%7Cc6e09dc387a445d6cec508db2f01ecba%7C9e857255df574c47a0c00546460380cb%7C0%7C0%7C638155457553099336%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=2R9ROb0jlSx2Hdb%2BGMDO3NdZo8bxhgVq2w%2FQHCKSAkQ%3D=0 JCL On Line On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 2:43 PM Farley, Peter <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Maybe . . . > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please
For that matter, there were a couple of things that EXEC had but EXEC2 didn't. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Pommier, Rex [rpomm...@sfgmembers.com] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 5:06 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please Steve, no, no, no, no. I'm not bashing Rexx or CLISTS or JCL. I'm trying to do just the opposite. Another poster (read:Michael) was (I'm presuming tongue-in-cheek) bashing CLISTs and I came to CLIST's defense by pointing out that it still does what it was intended to do, and it's probably not worth taking all the CLISTs sitting around your shop and rewriting them into Rexx or anything else. :-) Rex (with only 1 'x') -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Steve Thompson Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 3:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please I fine it interesting that a person by the name of Rex is bashing CLIST. Yep And yes, I do write JCL from scratch (answer the next post) because I right now, I'm working on migration code and need examples of certain constructs so I can make sure the migration code handles it correctly. Notice I did not say conversion (which I used to do DOS to MVS up to VSE-ESA to z/OS 1.2). Oh, I haven't had to deal with it for a while, but as I recall there is a function that CLIST can do that REXX couldn't (well back in the 1990s). I wonder if that is still true. Back to enjoying this thread. :) Steve Thompson On 3/27/2023 4:17 PM, Pommier, Rex wrote: > Using my most basic definition of a computer language - it's a list of > commands that can be saved to run it multiple times just by invoking the list > name, then both JCL and CLIST are languages (as is HTML), and both have > redeeming qualities. How many of you (hypothetically) are running JCL > "decks" (and I used that term on purpose) that were first built on punch > cards with little to no change since they were first built? JOL anybody? I > would say a redeeming value of JCL is that there's nothing out there to > easily replace it. > > Same with CLISTs. Can you rewrite the CLIST in a newer language? Sure. Is > it worth it? Probably not. Thus its longevity is probably a redeeming > quality. > > I'll go back to my corner now. :-) > > Rex > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Farley, Peter > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 2:44 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please > > Maybe . . . > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Schmitt, Michael > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 3:36 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please > > Is it OK to rag on languages with no redeeming qualities? CLIST> > -- > > This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the > addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If > the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized > representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail > and delete the message and any attachments from your system. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering > this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in > reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in > electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Regards, Steve Thompson
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please
Right, I forgot about that. Gotta give you that one. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* I think what happens to toddlers is that they suddenly realize their parents have essentially been lying to them their whole lives. We represent the world as this wonderful place where you are free to do as you please, not even stopping to use the bathroom if you don’t feel like it, and everyone keeps bringing you toys and your food comes from breasts. We keep it up until you are far too big to climb back in the womb, and then, surprise! Broccoli! -W Bruce Cameron on the Terrible Twos, May 2006 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 18:02 That's why I said "most basic". :-) And if you want to get pedantic, COND= logic (as backwards as it started out, everybody remember "if it's true you're through"?) was a REALLY primitive if/then construct. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 4:41 PM I ~mostly~ agree with your definition of "programming language", but I usually add that it has to have at least some primitive sort of if-then construction. JCL didn't use to make the grade, but it does now. So yeah, when I'm listing the programming languages I can use I sometimes include JCL ... barely. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 16:18 Using my most basic definition of a computer language - it's a list of commands that can be saved to run it multiple times just by invoking the list name, then both JCL and CLIST are languages (as is HTML), and both have redeeming qualities. How many of you (hypothetically) are running JCL "decks" (and I used that term on purpose) that were first built on punch cards with little to no change since they were first built? JOL anybody? I would say a redeeming value of JCL is that there's nothing out there to easily replace it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please
Which without going into macros is about as close to IF/THEN as you are going to find in assembler, not? And I don't think anybody on here (at least in their right mind) would argue that assembler is not a programming language. :-) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 5:05 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please JCL COND is similar to an assembler branch, skip if true. On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 5:01 PM Pommier, Rex wrote: > > That's why I said "most basic". :-) And if you want to get pedantic, COND= > logic (as backwards as it started out, everybody remember "if it's true > you're through"?) was a REALLY primitive if/then construct. > > Rex > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Bob Bridges > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 4:41 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please > > Chiming in here because of the overwhelming popular demand for my unsolicited > opinions: I ~mostly~ agree with your definition of "programming language", > but I usually add that it has to have at least some primitive sort of if-then > construction. JCL didn't use to make the grade, but it does now. So yeah, > when I'm listing the programming languages I can use I sometimes include JCL > ... barely. > > Lacking if-then, the language is simply a list of programs or commands to be > run one after the other, like MS .bat language was at first and as QMF is now > (or was when I last used it). I call instructions written in those languages > "scripts", and decline to use that word for programs written in REXX, VBA, > CLIST and the like, which are full-scale programming languages. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* Every year, on April 15, all members of Congress would be placed in > individual prison cells with the necessary tax forms and a copy of the > Tax Code. They would remain locked in the cells, without food or > water, until they had completed their tax returns and successfully > undergone a full IRS audit. Of course this system would probably > result in a severe shortage of congresspersons. But there might also > be some drawbacks. -Dave Barry's plan to simplify the tax code, > 2000-04-09 */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Pommier, Rex > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 16:18 > > Using my most basic definition of a computer language - it's a list of > commands that can be saved to run it multiple times just by invoking the list > name, then both JCL and CLIST are languages (as is HTML), and both have > redeeming qualities. How many of you (hypothetically) are running JCL > "decks" (and I used that term on purpose) that were first built on punch > cards with little to no change since they were first built? JOL anybody? I > would say a redeeming value of JCL is that there's nothing out there to > easily replace it. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering > this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in > reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in > electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and ma
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please
JCL COND is similar to an assembler branch, skip if true. On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 5:01 PM Pommier, Rex wrote: > > That's why I said "most basic". :-) And if you want to get pedantic, COND= > logic (as backwards as it started out, everybody remember "if it's true > you're through"?) was a REALLY primitive if/then construct. > > Rex > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Bob Bridges > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 4:41 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please > > Chiming in here because of the overwhelming popular demand for my unsolicited > opinions: I ~mostly~ agree with your definition of "programming language", > but I usually add that it has to have at least some primitive sort of if-then > construction. JCL didn't use to make the grade, but it does now. So yeah, > when I'm listing the programming languages I can use I sometimes include JCL > ... barely. > > Lacking if-then, the language is simply a list of programs or commands to be > run one after the other, like MS .bat language was at first and as QMF is now > (or was when I last used it). I call instructions written in those languages > "scripts", and decline to use that word for programs written in REXX, VBA, > CLIST and the like, which are full-scale programming languages. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* Every year, on April 15, all members of Congress would be placed in > individual prison cells with the necessary tax forms and a copy of the Tax > Code. They would remain locked in the cells, without food or water, until > they had completed their tax returns and successfully undergone a full IRS > audit. Of course this system would probably result in a severe shortage of > congresspersons. But there might also be some drawbacks. -Dave Barry's plan > to simplify the tax code, 2000-04-09 */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Pommier, Rex > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 16:18 > > Using my most basic definition of a computer language - it's a list of > commands that can be saved to run it multiple times just by invoking the list > name, then both JCL and CLIST are languages (as is HTML), and both have > redeeming qualities. How many of you (hypothetically) are running JCL > "decks" (and I used that term on purpose) that were first built on punch > cards with little to no change since they were first built? JOL anybody? I > would say a redeeming value of JCL is that there's nothing out there to > easily replace it. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering > this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in > reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in > electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please
That's why I said "most basic". :-) And if you want to get pedantic, COND= logic (as backwards as it started out, everybody remember "if it's true you're through"?) was a REALLY primitive if/then construct. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 4:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please Chiming in here because of the overwhelming popular demand for my unsolicited opinions: I ~mostly~ agree with your definition of "programming language", but I usually add that it has to have at least some primitive sort of if-then construction. JCL didn't use to make the grade, but it does now. So yeah, when I'm listing the programming languages I can use I sometimes include JCL ... barely. Lacking if-then, the language is simply a list of programs or commands to be run one after the other, like MS .bat language was at first and as QMF is now (or was when I last used it). I call instructions written in those languages "scripts", and decline to use that word for programs written in REXX, VBA, CLIST and the like, which are full-scale programming languages. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Every year, on April 15, all members of Congress would be placed in individual prison cells with the necessary tax forms and a copy of the Tax Code. They would remain locked in the cells, without food or water, until they had completed their tax returns and successfully undergone a full IRS audit. Of course this system would probably result in a severe shortage of congresspersons. But there might also be some drawbacks. -Dave Barry's plan to simplify the tax code, 2000-04-09 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 16:18 Using my most basic definition of a computer language - it's a list of commands that can be saved to run it multiple times just by invoking the list name, then both JCL and CLIST are languages (as is HTML), and both have redeeming qualities. How many of you (hypothetically) are running JCL "decks" (and I used that term on purpose) that were first built on punch cards with little to no change since they were first built? JOL anybody? I would say a redeeming value of JCL is that there's nothing out there to easily replace it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please
It's a scripting language that originally built JCL but apparently has been enhanced to actually "do" JCL functions like dynamically allocating datasets and running jobs. Another poster supplied the following URL. https://jol.oscar-jol.com/ Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 4:44 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please Ok, I'll ask: What ~is~ JOL? Never heard of it. I'm repeatedly surprised at the number of mainframers who never learned JCL past the ability to modify a job by replacing a DSN or two. Yet somehow they manage to function, sometimes by asking someone else to help fix their JCL. A new employer put me through a Deltak course in JCL when I started with them in 1980, and I've been using it ever since, usually on a daily or weekly basis. I'd hate to have to work without it. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It is not always the same thing to be a good man and a good citizen. -Aristotle, "Nicomachean Ethics" (325 BC) */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 16:29 Sorry, I'm going to "rag" on a language... :-) Admittedly I know next to nothing about it. My exposure to it consists of reading an article where somebody took a 14 line JCL job and converted it to JOL and the JOL code ended up somewhere around 70+ lines plus comments to explain what the program was doing. It appears that JOL now does a lot more than it used to do the last time I actually looked at it. However, in JCL's defense, how many people actually build jobs (especially more complex multi-step jobs with IF/THEN, conditional execution, etc. from scratch? Same as with a typical Cobol program, you take an existing program or JCL member and modify it to fit your needs. How many people here use JCL (whether you like it or hate it) on a regular basis? It's ubiquitous. How many use JOL? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please
Ok, I'll ask: What ~is~ JOL? Never heard of it. I'm repeatedly surprised at the number of mainframers who never learned JCL past the ability to modify a job by replacing a DSN or two. Yet somehow they manage to function, sometimes by asking someone else to help fix their JCL. A new employer put me through a Deltak course in JCL when I started with them in 1980, and I've been using it ever since, usually on a daily or weekly basis. I'd hate to have to work without it. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It is not always the same thing to be a good man and a good citizen. -Aristotle, "Nicomachean Ethics" (325 BC) */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 16:29 Sorry, I'm going to "rag" on a language... :-) Admittedly I know next to nothing about it. My exposure to it consists of reading an article where somebody took a 14 line JCL job and converted it to JOL and the JOL code ended up somewhere around 70+ lines plus comments to explain what the program was doing. It appears that JOL now does a lot more than it used to do the last time I actually looked at it. However, in JCL's defense, how many people actually build jobs (especially more complex multi-step jobs with IF/THEN, conditional execution, etc. from scratch? Same as with a typical Cobol program, you take an existing program or JCL member and modify it to fit your needs. How many people here use JCL (whether you like it or hate it) on a regular basis? It's ubiquitous. How many use JOL? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please
Steve, no, no, no, no. I'm not bashing Rexx or CLISTS or JCL. I'm trying to do just the opposite. Another poster (read:Michael) was (I'm presuming tongue-in-cheek) bashing CLISTs and I came to CLIST's defense by pointing out that it still does what it was intended to do, and it's probably not worth taking all the CLISTs sitting around your shop and rewriting them into Rexx or anything else. :-) Rex (with only 1 'x') -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Steve Thompson Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 3:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please I fine it interesting that a person by the name of Rex is bashing CLIST. Yep And yes, I do write JCL from scratch (answer the next post) because I right now, I'm working on migration code and need examples of certain constructs so I can make sure the migration code handles it correctly. Notice I did not say conversion (which I used to do DOS to MVS up to VSE-ESA to z/OS 1.2). Oh, I haven't had to deal with it for a while, but as I recall there is a function that CLIST can do that REXX couldn't (well back in the 1990s). I wonder if that is still true. Back to enjoying this thread. :) Steve Thompson On 3/27/2023 4:17 PM, Pommier, Rex wrote: > Using my most basic definition of a computer language - it's a list of > commands that can be saved to run it multiple times just by invoking the list > name, then both JCL and CLIST are languages (as is HTML), and both have > redeeming qualities. How many of you (hypothetically) are running JCL > "decks" (and I used that term on purpose) that were first built on punch > cards with little to no change since they were first built? JOL anybody? I > would say a redeeming value of JCL is that there's nothing out there to > easily replace it. > > Same with CLISTs. Can you rewrite the CLIST in a newer language? Sure. Is > it worth it? Probably not. Thus its longevity is probably a redeeming > quality. > > I'll go back to my corner now. :-) > > Rex > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Farley, Peter > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 2:44 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please > > Maybe . . . > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Schmitt, Michael > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 3:36 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please > > Is it OK to rag on languages with no redeeming qualities? CLIST> > -- > > This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the > addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If > the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized > representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail > and delete the message and any attachments from your system. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering > this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in > reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in > electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Regards, Steve Thompson VS Strategies LLC Westfield IN 972-983-9430 cell -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please
Sorry, I'm going to "rag" on a language... :-) Admittedly I know next to nothing about it. My exposure to it consists of reading an article where somebody took a 14 line JCL job and converted it to JOL and the JOL code ended up somewhere around 70+ lines plus comments to explain what the program was doing. It appears that JOL now does a lot more than it used to do the last time I actually looked at it. However, in JCL's defense, how many people actually build jobs (especially more complex multi-step jobs with IF/THEN, conditional execution, etc. from scratch? Same as with a typical Cobol program, you take an existing program or JCL member and modify it to fit your needs. How many people here use JCL (whether you like it or hate it) on a regular basis? It's ubiquitous. How many use JOL? Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 3:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://jol.oscar-jol.com/about-jol__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!vGAo09RSRyegMrA-_z-guiaGvhkdNPyxpge54CfqCQvUuwDKJzELN2R4OZtsAhm19487HzuIfdXymkh3cCArALgCDA$ JCL On Line On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 2:43 PM Farley, Peter <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Maybe . . . > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
