Leslie Daigle
les...@thinkingcat.com wrote:
Hi,
I had the comments below on a previous incarnation of how to
fix the IAOC because Chairs are overloaded.
I have to say -- I don't think the substantive points are
addressed in the new proposal, which leaves the Chairs as
spectators to the IAOC
, just as the
original proposal did, and my comments/confusion/questions below are
still current for me.
Leslie.
Original Message
Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-klensin-iaoc-member-00.txt
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:06:07 -0400
From: Leslie Daigle les...@thinkingcat.com
To: IETF
/ietf
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, so we can
get a clearer picture of where our mutual interests lie. If you have a
few moments to share your thoughts, please do!
Thanks,
Leslie.
(See http://www.isoc.org/tools/blogs/membernews/?p=410 for more info).
Leslie Daigle wrote:
Among the things that ISOC focuses on is broadening
visibility through such a publication, please feel free
to participate in this research study by following this link:
http://survey.confirmit.com/wix/p767752991.aspx
Thanks,
Leslie.
Leslie Daigle
Chief Internet Technology Officer
Internet Society
dai...@isoc.org
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To be clear, and for the benefit of anyone reading this who hasn't tracked
attendance at the various bofs discussions, Eric was certainly not the
only (then) IAB member who had issues with the proposed approach.
And, due to the unavoidable collision of related sessions in our
multi-tracked
Russ,
The IETF Trust was set up as an instrument -- a naturally limited scope.
The specific task you identify below (paying attention to items) could
reasonably be addressed as Harald suggested.
Giving the Trust a chair is at least a step towards acknowledging it as a
separate organization
+1 from me.
The role of the Trust Chair used to be pretty lightweight: either it
still is, and Harald's advice is sound (get clerical help), or it
no longer is, and a more detailed explanation of the experienced change
would be helpful to the community being asked for comment.
Leslie.
--On
--On March 27, 2008 10:33:24 AM +0100 Olaf Kolkman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I would think that the document would gain in clarity if it explicitly
ties the incoming rights to the streams as defined in RFC4844 and also
explicitly calls out that if new streams would be defined those should
Hi,
Sorry -- I've been on a plane most of the last day.
The problem yesterday was detected addressed; thanks
for letting me know it's recurring. I am told that
the problem has been isolated working on a fix.
Leslie.
Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
On 5 mrt 2008, at 16:09, Leslie Daigle wrote
As mentioned last week -- the wiki is now accessible:
http://wiki.tools.isoc.org/IETF71_IPv4_Outage
Thanks,
Leslie.
Leslie Daigle wrote:
Hi,
To the basic question of the IPv4 outage -- preparations are
indeed underway, to implement it as Russ described on 12/22/2007[1].
Early next
.
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Yours to discover.
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All,
Due to other commitments Phil Roberts will not be able to continue
his role as Executive Director. Therefore the IAB is currently looking
to appoint a replacement.
The Executive Director is a non-voting ex-officio member of the IAB.
(See RFC2850, the IAB's charter, for details). We are
All,
Due to other commitments Phil Roberts will not be able to continue
his role as Executive Director. Therefore the IAB is currently looking
to appoint a replacement.
The Executive Director is a non-voting ex-officio member of the IAB.
(See RFC2850, the IAB's charter, for details). We are
The IAB is ready to ask the RFC-Editor to publish
Report from the IAB Workshop on Routing and Addressing
draft-iab-raws-report-01.txt
as an Informational RFC. This document is a report
from an invitational workshop convened by the IAB.
As such, it represents the
The procedure used by the Internet Architecture Board to select an
individual to serve a three year term as a Trustee of the Internet
Society is documented in RFC3677.
The individuals who have accepted a nomination to be a candidate in this
process this year are:
Joel Halpern
Ted Hardie
John
Well, when the question (ION v. informational) came up
within the IESG's discussion of the document, this
is what I offered:
On the ION v. RFC question -- I think this is *really*
teetering on the edge! I've copied below the
relevant section of draft-iab-rfc-editor-03. On
the one hand, this
in 2007
Leslie Daigle,
Chair, IAB
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nominee).
If any member of the community wishes to provide comments on
some or all of these candidates, please send a note to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
in the next 2 weeks (i.e., by January 25).
Leslie Daigle,
for the IAB.
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of the
solicitation period (February 16).
The IAB expects to announce its selection on April 13. The IESG will
confirm the candidate and he or she will begin serving as the new board
of trustee member in June.
Leslie Daigle,
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after the end of the solicitation period (December 22).
The IAB expects to make a decision on or before January 29
(prior to the expected date at which the Nomcom will select its
IAOC nominee).
Leslie Daigle,
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after the end of the solicitation period (December 22).
The IAB expects to make a decision on or before January 29
(prior to the expected date at which the Nomcom will select its
IAOC nominee).
Leslie Daigle,
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after the end of the solicitation period (December 22).
The IAB expects to make a decision on or before January 29
(prior to the expected date at which the Nomcom will select its
IAOC nominee).
Leslie Daigle,
for the IAB.
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on the ietf-announce@ietf.org list
after the end of the solicitation period (December 22).
The IAB expects to announce its selection on January 29
(prior to the expected date at which the Nomcom will select
its IAOC nominee).
Leslie Daigle,
Chair, IAB
at
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-link-encaps-02.txt
From the Abstract:
This document describes architectural and operational issues that
arise from link layer protocols supporting multiple Internet Protocol
encapsulation methods.
Leslie Daigle,
For the IAB
I think this has already been said in this thread, but just
to be very clear on one point:
Andrew's message does read as if the IAB IESG were somehow
consulted. They were not.
Brian I were on the cc list of one complaint; we certainly
agreed the situation needed addressing. No doubt
.
Joe Touch wrote:
Leslie Daigle wrote:
...
[*] This is perhaps a reasonable time to reiterate that
the IAB is, in fact, a separate entity from the IETF organization.
There are many who believe that all RFCs are Internet standards
documents, thus the current concern with adding IESG non-review
Actually:
. since the existence of the IASA (last year),
the ISOC BoT has been asked to support the RFC Editor
as part of what IASA supports -- IETF *and* IAB (and IRTF).
. as part of the initial proposal of 2007 budget for IASA,
to the ISOC BoT,
Mike,
I am not going to engage in a public debate about what constitutes
the complete set of facts here: there is no dispute (afaict) that the
RFC Editor series started before the IETF, or that it has had a broader
mandate than IETF standards.
The IAB document is consistent with the
Mike,
Michael StJohns wrote:
At 03:04 PM 6/9/2006, Leslie Daigle wrote:
Mike,
I am not going to engage in a public debate about what constitutes
the complete set of facts here:
I love it when discussions start out with throw away the facts.
That's a mischaracterization of what I said
I agree that the principle of avoiding interference is
a general one that could be captured in this document.
And I think this document had better be consistent in
its application of principles.
I will observe that as the documents are currently
structured, the definitions of the individual
.
independentatietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/independent
There is an initial draft proposal, available at
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-klensin-rfc-independent-02.txt
Leslie Daigle,
Chair, IAB.
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Indeed -- the potential for leaving the RFC Editor
split or hanging in space is one of the driving reasons behind
elaborating the existing IAB charter text and creating
this document.
The key elements are:
. the RFC Editor has been under the auspices of
the IAB for some time
Sam,
Some high-level responses, and I'm sure we'll hear other
input:
1/ I think you're overlooking something in IETF pays for RFC
Editor; RFC Editor has been paid by ISOC for years, and *that*
largely comes out of contributions from corporations. We actually
have no data beyond the fact that
is clear where the IAB makes decisions versus where it facilitates
the detection of and action upon consensus. Can you propose
some text improvements?
Leslie.
Sam Hartman wrote:
Leslie == Leslie Daigle [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Leslie Sam,
Leslie Some high-level responses, and I'm sure
Thanks to all those who considered volunteering for this position!
And, I'm pleased to announce that Phil Roberts will be taking
up the post.
Thanks,
Leslie.
Leslie Daigle wrote:
All,
The IAB is currently looking to appoint an Executive Director.
The Executive Director is a non-voting ex
on experience gained
since those standards were completed.
Leslie Daigle,
For the IAB.
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with IAB document editing tasks, so on balance the
time committment and overall participation is probably about the
same as any other actively-involved IAB member.
Hope that helps,
Leslie.
Leslie Daigle wrote:
All,
The IAB is currently looking to appoint an Executive Director.
The Executive
your comments suggestions by April 14th
2006 and we plan to make a decision as soon as possible thereafter.
It will be helpful if you indicate in your email how you or the
suggested person fits this profile as best as possible.
Leslie Daigle, for The IAB
John, everyone,
I think it's fair to say that the IAB has heard the concern
at this point -- about the net neutrality issue, and the desire
to see some concrete IAB action.
I've also seen a fair bit of discussion about what an appropriate
stance *is*, and whether or how to express it as a
An issue has been raised about how to interpret RFC 3777
in the case of the replacement for Pekka Nikander on the IAB.
Specifically, the duration for the replacement's appointment
is ambiguous, as different interpretations are possible (have
been made) as to whether the point of interest is when
Carl,
Carl Malamud wrote:
Carl -- did you get the other message (the one with
the timeline)?
Yes, I did.
Good - and I'd like to hear your comments on *that*.
I'm curious about:
1. the opinion from the RFC-Editor about this, in particular
the charter.
I assume you're asking this
Suggestion? Are they independent submissions, or RFC Editor
contributions? They are clearly not currently IAB, IETF
or IRTF docs...
Leslie.
Scott Bradner wrote:
The other publication tracks in the above is meant to be
for -- IAB, IRTF, independent submissions, whatever comes next.
and 1
between the IETF and other organizations are
described in RFC 4052 [RFC4052]. This document gives guidelines on
expectations, tasks, responsibilities and mandate of the liaison
managers.
Leslie Daigle,
For the IAB.
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(s) Awarded
Oct – Dec[IASA]
Transition Period
Jan 1 2007
Contract term begins
Leslie Daigle.
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and approval processes, must be defined in
IETF community consensus documents before being put to the IAB for
approval.
Leslie Daigle.
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I want to speak to one facet of comment that I believe
is going to be a common thread:
[Ran Atkinson wrote:]
Similarly, it is a bug that the IETF process would govern the
publication of non-IETF documents. The IETF process properly
should govern how IETF generated documents should be handled
and approval processes, must be defined in
IETF community consensus documents before being put to the IAB for
approval.
Leslie Daigle.
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Two weeks ago, Pekka Nikander announced to us his
resignation from the IAB. I'd like to thank Pekka
for his time and contributions to the IAB, and wish
him all the best in pursuing his professional goals!
The IAB has decided to fill this mid-term vacancy,
and has informed the NomCom.
Leslie,
The procedure used by the Internet Architecture Board to select an
individual to serve a three year term as a Trustee of the Internet
Society is documented in RFC3677.
The individuals who have accepted a nomination to be a candidate in this
process this year are:
Margaret Wasserman
Patrik
As you may have seen, the Department of Commerce has recently
published a Request for Interest (RFI), for the whole IANA function:
http://www.fbo.gov/spg/DOC/OS/OAM/Reference%2DNumber%2DDOCNTIARFI0001/SynopsisR.html
While the RFI was not a surprise, the IETF was not consulted in any way
about
therefore conclude that
the appeal should be denied and the original IESG decision upheld.
Note: IAB voting member Bernard Aboba recused himself from the
discussion and decision of this appeal.
Leslie Daigle,
for the IAB.
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2005 - 2008
(*) Current term expires in 2006
Leslie Daigle,
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Harald,
Indeed, the IAB response concludes that the IESG has not
given sufficient justification for its decision in
Mr. Morfin's appeal, and that decision has been annulled.
The IAB's role here is one of review (in the appeal), not
directing the actions of IETF process.
If you require
Dear Mr. Mehnle,
This is to acknowledge receipt of your message. The IAB will
review the material and provide you a response.
Best regards,
Leslie,
IAB Chair.
Julian Mehnle wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
To the Internet Architecture Board,
as per the Internet
(*) Current term expires in 2006
Leslie Daigle,
Chair, IAB
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of applicability of existing process or by
referencing well-established current practice.
Leslie Daigle,
IAB Chair.
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Sam,
One IAB member's perspective: no, the expectation is not
BCP upon BCP upon BCP.
The devil is, of course, in the details. Even community commented
on published operational procedures should not be at odds with
our general or specific process documents, or else that seems
to suggest the
Leslie Daigle,
Chair, IAB
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Architecture Board) report on the
role of the IRTF (Internet Research Task Force), both on its own and
in relationsip to the IETF. This document evolved from a discussion
within the IAB as part of a process of appointing a new chair of the
IRTF.
Leslie Daigle,
For the IAB
Forwarded on behalf of Lucy.
Leslie.
Original Message
Subject: Update: IETF Trust Consensus Call
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:15:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Lucy E. Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ietf@ietf.org
All -
I would like to extend the Consensus Call on the IETF Trust for one
[Posting on behalf of Lucy Lynch. -- LLD]
The IAOC is pleased to announce that we have reached substantial agreement
with both CNRI and ISOC on the founding document for an IETF Trust. The
IETF Trust is a private legal construct (in this case established under
the laws of Virginia, USA)
Here's a specific aspect I'd like to hear the community at large
thinking about, re. PESCI (please read all the way to the
bottom to get the actual question; it may not be what you
expect):
We're not doing this as a WG because we (agreed we) don't like those
nasty spiralling pointless and
on input received so far)
BoF: TechSpec -- Requirements for IETF Technical Specification Publication
Chair: Leslie Daigle
Mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The work of the IETF is to discuss, develop and disseminate
technical specifications to support the Internet's operation.
An important output
As I've said on the other occasions I've had to see versions
of Brian's proposal,
My completely personal opinion:
. it's reasonable for Brian to appoint
a committee of whomever he wants, by whatever
process he wants, to do whatever he wants
. the outcome of that committee
Annually, the IAB makes an appointment to one of three seats on the
Internet Society Board of Trustees (ISOC BoT). BCP 77 (RFC 3677), which
describes the selection process, allows IESG and IAB members to be
selected for the ISOC Board, though no more than two of the three could
be IESG or IAB
can provide performance benefits, inappropriate use can degrade both
robustness and performance. This document summarizes current
proposals, describes the architectural issues and provides examples
of appropriate and inappropriate uses of link layer indications.
Leslie Daigle
FYI, and to get people's minds in gear for tonight's
technical discussion, here's the list of things we had
suggested when we called for technical topics:
1/ The big interconnect -- voice and IP service provision (without
re-running the VOIPEER bof).
2/ Does the IETF still follow (observe)
Actually, I'm not sure I agree (that it's a good plan, or better
to do it this way than update the BCP).
When the NomCom WG was discussing this as part of creating RFC3777,
I was initially a proponent of the publish the candidate list!
perspective. I will admit to having been swayed by the
draft-iab-irtf-00.txt), and we look forward
to continuing to refine the IRTF with Aaron.
Leslie Daigle,
for the IAB.
===
Aaron Falk is a computer scientist conducting network research at USC
Information Sciences Institute. His interests include network
architecture, congestion control
[My original announcement uncovered a glitch in communications in obtaining
acceptance from one of the nominations we received for this position.
I've amended the list for completeness, below.-- LLD]
The procedure used by the Internet Architecture Board to select an individual
toserve a
The procedure used by the Internet Architecture Board to select an individual to
serve a three year term as a Trustee of the Internet Society is documented in
RFC3677.
The individuals who have accepted a nomination to be a candidate in this
process are:
- Fred Baker
- Scott Bradner
- John
that the task of
assessing community consensus as input to an IESG decision
remains outside the role of the IAB.
Leslie Daigle,
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For myself, I find the arguments on both sides of controlled
and managed to be compelling -- perhaps because I am not a
lawyer.
However, I am conscious that the words we write down are scrutinized
and used by people the world over -- not always to our benefit,
and often without any of the context
A couple other comments:
Fred Baker wrote:
ISOC proposes to replace this:
Within the constraints outlined above, all other details of how to
structure this activity within ISOC (whether as a cost center, a
department, or a formal subsidiary) shall be determined by ISOC in
To emphasize something that Harald said -- my read of the discussion
on this list is that the matter requires more discussion. It also
requires more attention to detail than should go into the BCP.
For example, from the discussion on the list, it's pretty clear
that at least some people question
Howdy,
I'm a little concerned about hacking the appeals path on the
fly (i.e., dropping the IESG and going straight to IAB), but
I can live with that.
WRT this:
Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
- Removed the para about metrics. That's not part of this section.
Could go under IAD responsibilities.
not planning to say any more on the subject.
It's not something I'm suggesting should stop the document,
either way!
Leslie.
John C Klensin wrote:
--On Monday, 31 January, 2005 14:00 -0500 Leslie Daigle
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Howdy,
I'm a little concerned about hacking the appeals path on the
fly
Sam,
For myself, I agree these things are true. I would like to
believe they are obvious, though I'm not certain of that. For
example, these things are equally true of the IAB and IESG, but it's
not clear to me that everyone understands they can drop a
note to either of those groups.
I don't
Since I am responsible for some of this text, let me add
a couple of comments, in-line:
John C Klensin wrote:
3.5 Review and Appeal of IAD and IAOC Decision
The IAOC is directly accountable to the IETF community for
the
performance of the IASA. In order to achieve this, the
IAOC and IAD
I like this formulation.
A couple of suggested tweaks, inline:
Margaret Wasserman wrote:
Remove the current sections 3.5 and 3.6 and replace them with a new
section 3.5:
3.5 Review and Appeal of IAD and IAOC Decision
The IAOC is directly accountable to the IETF community for the
think the IAOC must be required to respond directly to the community.
a.
On 25 jan 2005, at 21.15, Leslie Daigle wrote:
3.5 Business Decisions
Decisions made by the IAD in the course of carrying out IASA business
activities are subject to review by the IAOC.
The decisions of the IAOC must
I believe the scenarios you are outlining are certainly
possible. I don't (personally) believe that we can write
rules or process steps to make them impossible. I also
am concsiously saying possible without any prejudice
about likelihood. That is -- I have no opinion about
the likelihood of
Sam,
Let me first take another stab at recap'ing the discussion that
lead to my proposal for 3.5 and 3.6, and clarifying what I
intend as a distinction between them.
As I understood them, John Klensin, Mike St.Johns, and others
were concerned about creating an IASA that could not or
operate
from previous discussion.
Leslie.
Leslie Daigle wrote:
Following up the point I made in response to Mike St.Johns
a couple days ago, I went back through the document to see if/how
it distinguishes between being adequately responsive and
accountable to the community, from having appropriate
chains
As part of its work to look at potential agreements with service
providers, the IASA Transition Team has been reviewing the
possibilities for IETF secretariat functions for 2005. As you
have heard, CNRI has committed to running the IETF Secretariat for
2005, as it has done in the past, unless and
of a decision from the IAB or from the IESG.
If members of the community feel that they are unjustly denied a
response to a request for review, they may ask the IAB or the IESG
to make the request on their behalf.
Answered requests for review and their responses are made public.
Leslie.
Leslie
Interesting...
To the extent that the IAD and IAOC are dealing with
decisions about implementing requirements, I agree.
To the extent that the IAD and IAOC are applying judgement
to interpret the best needs of the IETF (i.e., determining
those requirements), I disagree. I think it's a little
ISOC Trustees and their term of
appointment are:
Fred Baker 2002 - 2005 (*)
Margaret Wasserman 2003 - 2006
Eric Huizer 2004 - 2007
(*) Current term expires in 2005
Leslie Daigle,
Chair, IAB
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On my re-reading of the thread, I think:
. you are right that there wasn't substantive disagreement on
the inclusion of the text:
This BCP will take effect upon adoption of the BCP by the IESG and the
concurrent insert thing that ISOC does which codifies in some
interesting way the
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