Re: Newcomers [Was: Evolutionizing the IETF]

2012-11-27 Thread Fernando Gont
On 11/16/2012 12:27 AM, John Levine wrote: Shall we move on? Sure. Since we agree that there is no way to pay for the extra costs involved in meeting in places where there are insignificant numbers of IETF participants, it won't happen, and we're done. I wonder how you measure/count

Re: [lisp] Last Call: draft-ietf-lisp-eid-block-03.txt (LISP EID Block) to Informational RFC

2012-11-27 Thread Brian Haberman
I want to thank everyone who has provided feedback on this draft. Given the issues raised, I am sending the draft back to the LISP WG for additional work. I encourage folks interested in this draft to participate on the LISP mailing list. Regards, Brian On 11/13/12 9:45 AM, The IESG wrote:

Re: A Splendid Example Of A Renumbering Disaster

2012-11-27 Thread Paul Wouters
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012, Benson Schliesser wrote: I expect to be flamed for suggesting it, but why not use the Shared Address Space for this purpose? (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6598) You can't, if carriers are assigning you that IP range. You'd still get a conflict if you use it for your own

Re: Newcomers [Was: Evolutionizing the IETF]

2012-11-27 Thread John R Levine
I wonder how you measure/count IETF participants... Do you measure participants based on subscriptions to IETF mailing-lists? -- If so, how do you assign a location to the plenty of gTLD addresses? (including those at gmail.com) I'm guessing based on the mail I see on the lists I'm on and the

Re: Newcomers [Was: Evolutionizing the IETF]

2012-11-27 Thread Dale R. Worley
Responses to a couple of points that people have made: From: t.p. daedu...@btconnect.com I started, some years ago, with a meeting, because the culture that I was used to was that conferences, be they annual or triannual, were where things really happened and that e-mail filled in the gaps

IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread Barry Leiba
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Dale R. Worley wor...@ariadne.com wrote: That attendance showed me that most of the IETF meeting was a waste of time, that it was e-mail that was the main vehicle for work, and I think that the IETF web site has it about right when it says This is all true.

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread Marc Blanchet
Le 2012-11-27 à 13:00, Barry Leiba a écrit : So here's my question: Does the community want us to push back on those situations? Does the community believe that the real IETF work is done on the mailing lists, and not in the face-to-face meetings, to the extent that the community would

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread joel jaeggli
On 11/27/12 10:00 AM, Barry Leiba wrote: On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Dale R. Worley wor...@ariadne.com wrote: That attendance showed me that most of the IETF meeting was a waste of time, that it was e-mail that was the main vehicle for work, and I think that the IETF web site has it about

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread ned+ietf
So here's my question: Does the community want us to push back on those situations? Does the community believe that the real IETF work is done on the mailing lists, and not in the face-to-face meetings, to the extent that the community would want the IESG to refuse to publish documents whose

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread t . p .
- Original Message - From: Barry Leiba barryle...@computer.org To: IETF discussion list ietf@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:00 PM On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Dale R. Worley wor...@ariadne.com wrote: That attendance showed me that most of the IETF meeting was a

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread Melinda Shore
I think the core issue is whether or not there's been adequate review, and it seems to me to be appropriate to request volunteers from wg participants to review documents before moving them along. Melinda

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread Andrew Sullivan
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 07:33:29PM +, t.p. wrote: Chair, that unless and until people speak up on the list, eg during Last Call, then the I-D in question is going nowhere - which I find healthy. I strongly agree with this. If people continue not to speak up, well then perhaps it is time

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread Geoff Huston
On 28/11/2012, at 5:00 AM, Barry Leiba barryle...@computer.org wrote: On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Dale R. Worley wor...@ariadne.com wrote: That attendance showed me that most of the IETF meeting was a waste of time, that it was e-mail that was the main vehicle for work, and I think

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread David Meyer
+1 --dmm On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Geoff Huston g...@apnic.net wrote: On 28/11/2012, at 5:00 AM, Barry Leiba barryle...@computer.org wrote: On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Dale R. Worley wor...@ariadne.com wrote: That attendance showed me that most of the IETF meeting was a

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread John C Klensin
--On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 13:00 -0500 Barry Leiba barryle...@computer.org wrote: ... So here's my question: Does the community want us to push back on those situations? Does the community believe that the real IETF work is done on the mailing lists, and not in the face-to-face

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread SM
Hi Barry, At 10:00 27-11-2012, Barry Leiba wrote: We accept that, and we review the document as usual, accepting the document shepherd's writeup that says that the document has broad consensus of the working group. :-) So here's my question: Does the community want us to push back on those

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread David Morris
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012, John C Klensin wrote: --On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 13:00 -0500 Barry Leiba barryle...@computer.org wrote: ... So here's my question: Does the community want us to push back on those situations? Does the community believe that the real IETF work is done on

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread Joe Touch
On 11/27/2012 10:07 AM, Marc Blanchet wrote: Le 2012-11-27 à 13:00, Barry Leiba a écrit : So here's my question: Does the community want us to push back on those situations? Does the community believe that the real IETF work is done on the mailing lists, and not in the face-to-face

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread Hector Santos
+1 John C Klensin wrote: --On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 13:00 -0500 Barry Leiba barryle...@computer.org wrote: ... So here's my question: Does the community want us to push back on those situations? Does the community believe that the real IETF work is done on the mailing lists, and not in

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread John Leslie
Barry Leiba barryle...@computer.org wrote: A number of times since I started in this position in March, documents have come to the IESG that prompted me (or another AD) to look into the document history for... to find that there's basically no history. We see a string of versions posted,

Re: IETF work is done on the mailing lists

2012-11-27 Thread Donald Eastlake
I generally agree with Joe. There should be discussion but the distribution of that discussion between meeting and mailing list is not significant; however, there must be sufficient opportunity for objection or additional comments on the mailing list and, in the case of discussion at a meeting,

Last Call: draft-ietf-avt-rtp-evrc-nw-08.txt (RTP payload format for Enhanced Variable Rate Narrowband-Wideband Codec (EVRC-NW)) to Proposed Standard

2012-11-27 Thread The IESG
The IESG has received a request from the Audio/Video Transport Payloads WG (payload) to consider the following document: - 'RTP payload format for Enhanced Variable Rate Narrowband-Wideband Codec (EVRC-NW)' draft-ietf-avt-rtp-evrc-nw-08.txt as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a

WG Action: Conclusion of Datagram Congestion Control Protocol (dccp)

2012-11-27 Thread IESG Secretary
The Datagram Congestion Control Protocol (dccp) working group in the Transport Area has concluded after having completed all of its chartered work. The IESG contact persons are Wesley Eddy and Martin Stiemerling. The DCCP mailing list (d...@ietf.org) will remain open in order to enable

New Non-WG Mailing List: yaco-nomcom-tool -- Discussion of the Yaco / Nomcom Project

2012-11-27 Thread IETF Secretariat
A new IETF non-working group email list has been created. List address: yaco-nomcom-t...@ietf.org Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/yaco-nomcom-tool/ To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yaco-nomcom-tool Purpose: Discussion of the Yaco / Nomcom Project For additional