Re: http://www.6assist.net/ - call for test
On 2013-05-10 11:17, Max Tulyev wrote: Hi All, We are developping a new kind of IPv6 tunnel broker. The main idea is let the traffic flow directly between peers, not through the tunnel broker server. The website of that project is http://www.6assist.net/ It acts like a virtual media IXP, and anybody have own ASN can join it. For SixXS we have thought about allowing people, FOR EXPERIMENTATION, to use a private ASN, and then do something similar, this so that people can play a bit with BGP (time and other things has caused it not to be there though). There are a number of IX/VPN platforms out there that allow this already though, http://www.virt-ix.net/ for instance and the numerous hackerspace VPN networks. For your problem statement from the page: The main disadvantage of using a tunnel broker is traffic path not optimal. Imagine you are in Germany, use the IPv6 tunnel broker in USA and connecting via IPv6 to some server in Italy The answer is simple: get an ISP in that local country to set up a tunnel broker PoP. Traffic will then be properly routed. Tunnels should go to endsites, not between networks. Greets, Jeroen
Re: http://www.6assist.net/ - call for test
Algeria Envoyé de mon iPhone Le 10 mai 2013 à 11:59, Jeroen Massar jer...@massar.ch a écrit : On 2013-05-10 11:51, Max Tulyev wrote: [..] I think we all understand that any tunnel connectivity is worst than a native. But still there are a lot of places where it is unable to get a native IPv6 connectivity even for ISPs. Which locations are those, lets discuss that, find those ISPs and help them get native connectivity. Much more places have only one carrier to choise, which is not sufficient for normal AS operation. That is much more local issue, and something that can be resolved too. In any case, we have to live with that kind of tunnels for several years at least. We killed that experimental thing called the 6bone in 2006, that is 7+ years... If you want to help ISPs get connectivity, get them on this list, and I am sure there are a couple of ISPs here who are more than happy to get them connected. Indeed, in the beginning this will become a tunnel to those transits, but at one point that can be replaced. Greets, Jeroen
Re: http://www.6assist.net/ - call for test
Hi, I think we all understand that any tunnel connectivity is worst than a native. But still there are a lot of places where it is unable to get a native IPv6 connectivity even for ISPs. Which locations are those, lets discuss that, find those ISPs and help them get native connectivity. One of them is Lebanon. All international connections must go through the incumbent telco, and they don't/won't do IPv6. Annoying, insane, but a fact of life for the ISPs in such countries. So all the ISPs that do IPv6 have to do it with tunnels to HE, OCCAID etc. We killed that experimental thing called the 6bone in 2006, that is 7+ years... If you want to help ISPs get connectivity, get them on this list, and I am sure there are a couple of ISPs here who are more than happy to get them connected. Indeed, in the beginning this will become a tunnel to those transits, but at one point that can be replaced. I wish this was true for all countries :-( Cheers, Sander
Re: http://www.6assist.net/ - call for test
Hi! Which locations are those, lets discuss that, find those ISPs and help them get native connectivity. One of them is Lebanon. All international connections must go through the incumbent telco, and they don't/won't do IPv6. Annoying, insane, but a fact of life for the ISPs in such countries. So all the ISPs that do IPv6 have to do it with tunnels to HE, OCCAID etc. So a list with difficult countries and cities and the problematic carriers, somewhere on a webpage ? And some bigwigs from the ISOC/IETF/ITU 8-) or so that start to get in touch with the problematic carriers ? Or does that sound too easy ? -- p...@opsec.eu+49 171 3101372 7 years to go !
Re: http://www.6assist.net/ - call for test
Since you mentioned Slovenia: IPv6 for business customers is available from 3+ major ISPs - my company was one of the first IPv6-PI multihomed sites in Europe, both uplinks using native IPv6 connectivity. How do I know that? Because we applied for address space as soon as the forms became available ;) IPv6 for residential customers is available from at least 2 ISPs and if you happen to have an IPv6-ready mobile phone, you can get IPv6 from 3 mobile carriers. Oh, and BTW, HE has Tunnel Broker hub in Frankfurt, which is less than 20 msec away. Since I'm not playing WoW, that doesn't matter, but of course your mileage may vary. It is true that it's impossible to get IPv6 on residential DSL lines in some rural pockets of the country (my home included ... I hope the two people that are working on it for years are on this list ;), but does that indicate the need for another tunnel service? You must be kidding. On the other hand, there are always people who prefer to play with shiny new stuff or who simply prefer to do things the other (sometimes more circuitous) way, which might explain your Slovenian customers. But anyhow - happy tunneling! Ivan On 10.05.2013 03:20 , Max Tulyev wrote: On 10.05.13 12:58, Jeroen Massar wrote: If you want to help ISPs get connectivity, get them on this list, and I am sure there are a couple of ISPs here who are more than happy to get them connected. We have serveral(!) customers connected via tunneled BGP from Poland, which is EU, as well as Slovenia and Portugal. There are also Cambogia, Russia, Ukraine... We have a lot of situations that in country or even in city there is everything fine with IPv6 native connectivity, but it is unable to provide due to monopoly of some crappy ISP inside the exact buliding or district. And that companies already have IPv6 PI and ASN... Indeed, in the beginning this will become a tunnel to those transits, but at one point that can be replaced. Of course it will be replaced to a native connectivity one day. Even more: we plan to do that ourself for as many customers as we can manage to do ;)
Re: http://www.6assist.net/ - call for test
Max, I mentioned Slovenia as we have a request for BGP-enabled tunnel from Slovenia ;) So for some reasons people still want to use BGP-enabled tunnels in real life, even in conuntries with well implemented native IPv6. The second reason to use 6assist instead of regular TB it is not depend of the actual load of tunnel server. If somebody download something huge through a tunnel broker server - the other people just share the tiny rest of the bandwidth... if you go down this path, you could rather do BGP tunnelling. as in run BGP sessions between the peers, exchange native IPv6 prefixes, but use a 6to4 next-hop. that achieves the mesh properties you are looking for with an existing mechanism. of course someone will have to advertise a default route somewhere. cheers, Ole
Re: http://www.6assist.net/ - call for test
Proto-41 or 6to4 is a point-to-point tunnels in any case. So if you want to communicate directly to the significant part of the world this way, you need to set up and maintain hundreds of tunnels, as well as hundreds of BGP sessions. Also you have to go through a long and hard administrative work to negotiate all those tunnels. In our case, you need to set up only one tunnel and only one BGP session to the ROUTE SERVER, which provide you all the routing information about all the peers and prefixes. On 10.05.13 17:11, Jeroen Massar wrote: On 2013-05-10 16:07 , Max Tulyev wrote: Easy, just set up the BGP session using 6to4 address space ;) Still there are some major problems: 1. Unlike IXP-like infrastructure, it is difficult to set up and maintain a lot of BGP sessions (each to each mesh). Like an IXP infrastructure you would still have to configure these peers, and thus you will just have to automate it, which is something you want to do anyway if you want to scale in any matter or form... 2. The 6to4 infrastructure is unstable. The reachability of 6to4 address is a far away from 100%. 3. Your connectivity quality highly depends on 3rd party gate servers, often has non-optimal paths from/to it, it can be overloaded, has a packet loss and so on. As your BGP peering will be between two 6to4 participants the packets will be sent directly between the 6to4 nodes as they know how to reach other. The fun with using 6to4 addresses of course is that you for almost sure get stuck to a 1280 MTU which is very non-optimal. Better to then just use proto-41 tunnels and put the tunnel set up in the automated setup mentioned above. Greets, Jeroen
