Re: [JBoss-dev] Waaaaaaaaooooooooouuuuwwwwwwww
Erm. quite honestly, those guys at Javaworld must have been drunk when they made those awards. I mean, JBoss is quite good, and I'm using it, but comparing JBoss 2.4.x and Weblogic 6.1 is ridiculous, they're not even in the same league, as 2.4 doesn't even has clustering support... If they were talking about 3.0, at least, I could understand but saying 2.4 is better than wls 6.x and websphere is really streching the limits of imagination. Vincent Harcq wrote: http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-03-2002/jw-0326-awards-p3.html ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Waaaaaaaaooooooooouuuuwwwwwwww
I think some people might get offended about my last message, I can imagine the flame throwers starting up *grin* But I want to explain why I was shocked (in a negative way) about that javaworld award. Unless I mis-read, that award was for BEST application server, comparing it to BEA weblogic or Websphere I've been working on J2EE environment as a freelancer for quite some time, and I've used JBoss 2.4.x, 3.0beta, Weblogic 5.x, 6.x I must admit until wls 6.0, I didn't even rate weblogic as a enterprise level application server (because of lack of distributed transactions and the REALLY crappy JMS implementation), but version 6.x solved most of those issues. Now, JBoss is a very nice application server, and has some really cool feature you don't find in many app server ( dynamic proxies for example, I have having to generate stubs for wls *arg* ), but for an enterprise, scalability is one of the main requirements, and JBoss 2.4 lacks greatly in those areas. Of course, JBoss has some advantages, as the price ( for those who don't know, application servers like wls costs like 15000USD per CPU, at least time I saw... or was it iPlanet ? well, anyway, they cost a bundle ). But saying that JBoss can do everything a commercial appserver like wls, is to raise expectations in such a way that it can actually harm JBoss If some people have high requirements in terms of scalability and fault tolerance, and decide to use JBoss after seeing this article, they'll run in big trouble when they find out the differences. They'll have to switch to another application server and probably won't ever want to hear about JBoss ever again. You will go back to them in a few months and say But now our new version 3.0 has all the scalability and features you needed, but they won't listen because JBoss's credibility has been shot to pieces. Raising expectations beyond what can be delivered is a very bad ideia in IT I hope you'll all consider this as constructive criticism and will keep the flame throwers away :) And I apologise for the last email being so lacking in diplomacy :) Vincent Harcq wrote: http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-03-2002/jw-0326-awards-p3.html ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Waaaaaaaaooooooooouuuuwwwwwwww
Yes, that is true, but we are talking about J2EE application server Java 2 _enterprise_ edition and for such a server requires at least clustering support ( even though I must admit weblogic 5.x didn't even reach those basic requirements as they didn't support distributed transactions ). I would not pronouce myself and how JBoss 3.0 compares with wls 6.0 or websphere, since 3.0 isn't finished yet. But the 2.4 series isn't in the same category as application servers like those mentioned. Well that just depends on what your criteria are for measuring what is better does it not? Better to develop with, better if you want to customize it, better value for money, better if you aren't interested in clustering (like 95% of users), better if you want to be able to debug your code properly? I don't see it as being such a big strech [sic] of the imagination. Yannick Menager wrote: Erm. quite honestly, those guys at Javaworld must have been drunk when they made those awards. I mean, JBoss is quite good, and I'm using it, but comparing JBoss 2.4.x and Weblogic 6.1 is ridiculous, they're not even in the same league, as 2.4 doesn't even has clustering support... If they were talking about 3.0, at least, I could understand but saying 2.4 is better than wls 6.x and websphere is really streching the limits of imagination. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Waaaaaaaaooooooooouuuuwwwwwwww
Yes, of course it depends it the company's requirement, and also on the design of the system. If the whole architecture is screwed up, no matter how good the application server is, it won't cut it. And off course JBoss has a major price advantage ( My own company's servers are running on JBoss 2.4.4 on linux, and I'm the one who put them there, but my company's requirements are not the same my company's customers... ). The problem is that from what I got from the whole article, is that it doesn't just say JBoss is a very good app server, it says it's THE BEST I quote ' Though a free offering, JBoss quashes the old adage that you get what you pay for. to me IMO that sounds like saying that JBoss can do everything all the other app servers can do, which is not the case, and not just talking of the clustering capacities, for example Certificate based authentication for the web server doesn't seem to work as far as I could find. Maybe that is not the message that was being attempted to be sent, but I believe that's the message the whole thing sent through. Like I mentioned in the other email, it's a question of expectations. and that kind of award bumps up ALOT people's expectation alot. And when it comes to this kind of products, you don't get many chances to win people's hearts. If you burn them once, you probably won't manage to ever convince them to even bother trying again. If that award had been for 3.0, It would have been quite ok, but 2.4 . erm... Luke Taylor wrote: Yannick Menager wrote: ... But saying that JBoss can do everything a commercial appserver like wls, is to raise expectations in such a way that it can actually harm JBoss If some people have high requirements in terms of scalability and fault tolerance, and decide to use JBoss after seeing this article, they'll run in big trouble when they find out the differences. I disagree here too. In my experince many clients find out exactly the opposite - that they've been sold a huge capacity, dual-clustered-weblogic-on-sun-E99-boxes-with-replicated-oracle-db setup for a system that could be run on a single decent specced box running open source server software for a *miniscule* fraction of the price, usually because of the vested interests/commission of the software companies they were dealing with. Nobody should deploy on anything unless they've done realistic tests of the system with a realisitic simulation of the expected load. They should evaluate JBoss the same as any other server - if it fits their needs then they save a packet. Luke. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Waaaaaaaaooooooooouuuuwwwwwwww
That's absolutely true. I must admit my point of view when it comes to enterprise is more in the area of large distributed system.. Like for example Deutsche Bank trading systems are all J2EE based, and *unfortunatly* initially based on weblogic 5.x. *arg* I won't tell you how much suffering that pile of [CENSORED] brought me *sigh* But for that kind of mission critical systems, there's no comparison between weblogic 6.x and JBoss 2.4. Part of the system has requirements that almost aproach real time, and any downtime cost them ALOT of money... and when i say ALOT, i really mean ALOT *grin* But like you said, it is really a question of what are the requirements. The requirements of a major investment bank or a telecom are not the same as a mom-and-pop ISP. However I still find the award as pushing too much the message that JBoss is the wonder thing that does everything all other app servers do. Luke Taylor wrote: Yannick Menager wrote: Yes, that is true, but we are talking about J2EE application server Java 2 _enterprise_ edition Ah, the dreaded e-word. OK, so what's best depends on the size/requirements of your enterprise :). But if you mean enterprise as in bold and enterprising, as opposed to another dull company or marketing-bs like Inprise - Integrating the Enterprise, then I reckon JBoss would definately win hands down. Luke. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Waaaaaaaaooooooooouuuuwwwwwwww
Oh, I *did* fail to notice the awards were based on user votes, now I understand much better Well, anyway that's a good point ( the back to work, that is ), I'll follow that thought :) Jason Dillon wrote: Isn't THE BEST determined in this case by user votes... so it is always going to be scewed twords the varing oppion of the subset of actual users of the product who took the time to vote, and more so by the people who registered the product for voting in the first place. THE BEST has different meaning to different people who have different needs and different design goals. There is never going to be a product labled THE BEST which will fit neatly into each possible usage. It is a genaral term which shows that out of the voting polutation, they believe that out of the candidates, JBoss is THE BEST. People will have to use the product to really understand and evaluate how it fits their needs. Anyone who is going about designing a product based soly on THE BEST of any category without taking into account their needs and requirements is already on the road to failure. Lets get on with life, get back to work and stop this annoying thread. --jason Yannick Menager wrote: Yes, of course it depends it the company's requirement, and also on the design of the system. If the whole architecture is screwed up, no matter how good the application server is, it won't cut it. And off course JBoss has a major price advantage ( My own company's servers are running on JBoss 2.4.4 on linux, and I'm the one who put them there, but my company's requirements are not the same my company's customers... ). The problem is that from what I got from the whole article, is that it doesn't just say JBoss is a very good app server, it says it's THE BEST I quote ' Though a free offering, JBoss quashes the old adage that you get what you pay for. to me IMO that sounds like saying that JBoss can do everything all the other app servers can do, which is not the case, and not just talking of the clustering capacities, for example Certificate based authentication for the web server doesn't seem to work as far as I could find. Maybe that is not the message that was being attempted to be sent, but I believe that's the message the whole thing sent through. Like I mentioned in the other email, it's a question of expectations. and that kind of award bumps up ALOT people's expectation alot. And when it comes to this kind of products, you don't get many chances to win people's hearts. If you burn them once, you probably won't manage to ever convince them to even bother trying again. If that award had been for 3.0, It would have been quite ok, but 2.4 . erm... Luke Taylor wrote: Yannick Menager wrote: ... But saying that JBoss can do everything a commercial appserver like wls, is to raise expectations in such a way that it can actually harm JBoss If some people have high requirements in terms of scalability and fault tolerance, and decide to use JBoss after seeing this article, they'll run in big trouble when they find out the differences. I disagree here too. In my experince many clients find out exactly the opposite - that they've been sold a huge capacity, dual-clustered-weblogic-on-sun-E99-boxes-with-replicated-oracle-db setup for a system that could be run on a single decent specced box running open source server software for a *miniscule* fraction of the price, usually because of the vested interests/commission of the software companies they were dealing with. Nobody should deploy on anything unless they've done realistic tests of the system with a realisitic simulation of the expected load. They should evaluate JBoss the same as any other server - if it fits their needs then they save a packet. Luke. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Oracle has bought JBoss on google
Probably just some smart-ass mid-level manager who thought of this to show off in the organization for his brilliant ideias... I would just ignore it. ( Unless there is a systematic campaign from Oracle against JBoss, which it doesn't seem to be the case ) marc fleury wrote: do a search on JBoss on google and you will see that Oracle is investing some marketing dollars in trying to get you to pay for their crap. The sponsored link at the top is from Oracle. Can't believe these guys. Man this is brutal industry and come to think of it there is more to come. Finally is it just me or is Google less accurate for the past 3 month or so... marcf ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
[JBoss-dev] Certificate based authentication
I am interested in setting up certificate based authentication in my webapp, but after much pain and digging through JBoss sources, I came to the conclusion that there was no support to do so. Am I right ? Or did I miss something ? -- Best regards, Yannick mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
