Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Thank you, I should have checked the issues list first. On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote: > Le vendredi 20 novembre 2015 à 04:54 -0800, Michele Zaffalon a écrit : > > Should `linspace` act as an array for `repeat`? > Yes, the signature of repeat() is

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Le vendredi 20 novembre 2015 à 04:54 -0800, Michele Zaffalon a écrit : > Should `linspace` act as an array for `repeat`? Yes, the signature of repeat() is clearly too strict. This has been discussed at https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/12953 There was a clear support for this, but a

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Should `linspace` act as an array for `repeat`? On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 10:00:46 PM UTC+2, Art Kuo wrote: > > I don't think there is much to argue about, except perhaps names. > >1. `linspace` returns a range, but is otherwise a drop-in replacement >for an array, and should

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I *really* wish there was a way to collapse LinSpace and FloatRange into a single type, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how to do it without making both of them much slower. On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Art Kuo wrote: > By the way, the original issue has

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Call `collect` on them ;) On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Stefan Karpinski wrote: > I *really* wish there was a way to collapse LinSpace and FloatRange into a > single type, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how to do it > without making both of them much

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I agree with this downvote so much it hurts. The logspace/linspace is painfully ugly. linrange is the right name in my find for the iterator version. On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 10:31:55 UTC-7, Alex Ames wrote: > > Another downvote on linspace returning a range object. It seems odd for >

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I don't think there is much to argue about, except perhaps names. 1. `linspace` returns a range, but is otherwise a drop-in replacement for an array, and should act as one for any naive user, other than sometimes being faster and taking less memory. This is not hidden from the

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

This thread is tragically long on opinions and short on arguments backing them up. It occurs to me that we can write specialized methods for collect(::LinSpace) that generate the collected version more efficiently than generic iteration does, which eliminates one of the potential arguments for

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I think much of the problem is that many necessary packages (e.g. for plotting) don’t currently allow Range/AbstractVector, and many functions in Base are slower for ranges than for vectors. These are probably just teething problems, but until they are resolved “collect” ends up

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Sorry to dredge up this issue again but was there any reason for the return type of linspace to be LinSpace instead of FloatRange. They are seemingly indistinguishable. On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 3:31:31 AM UTC-7, Stefan Karpinski wrote: > > It's amazing how often the problem is the way

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:03 PM, Luke Stagner wrote: > Sorry to dredge up this issue again but was there any reason for the return > type of linspace to be LinSpace instead of FloatRange. They are seemingly > indistinguishable. Not sure if this si **the** reason but you

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 9:03:52 PM UTC-4, Luke Stagner wrote: > > Sorry to dredge up this issue again but was there any reason for the > return type of linspace to be LinSpace instead of FloatRange. They are > seemingly indistinguishable. > They are not quite the same because of

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

It's amazing how often the problem is the way something is printed. On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:26 AM, Art Kuo wrote: > Oh, clearly I did not understand show(). I've ported the changes to > writemime instead, and as a bonus figured out how to automatically format > for screen

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

+1, I like the new display a lot. On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 10:53:00 PM UTC-4, Steven G. Johnson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 8:05:19 PM UTC-4, Art Kuo wrote: >> >> I've coded up a simple replacement to the show() function for ranges. The >> idea is to give the user

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Oh, clearly I did not understand show(). I've ported the changes to writemime instead, and as a bonus figured out how to automatically format for screen width (using Base.print_matrix_row). Just to recap: There is little or no problem with linspace or range being an object rather than array as

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I know it may feel to the insiders/developers that the requestors are being a bit dogmatic with expectations from other languages. 2 cautions: 1. Insiders need to be careful not to be defensive: converts are here because they are fans and evangelists (potentially) in their community. Gotchas

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Note, however, that this "display" output should probably be a method of writemime(io::IO, ::MIME"text/plain", x). The show(io, x) for ranges should continue to be the compact output.

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 8:05:19 PM UTC-4, Art Kuo wrote: > > I've coded up a simple replacement to the show() function for ranges. The > idea is to give the user information more likely to be what they are > wondering. Here are some examples of its output: > It looks great to me;

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I've coded up a simple replacement to the show() function for ranges. The idea is to give the user information more likely to be what they are wondering. Here are some examples of its output: *julia> **0:4* *5-element UnitRange{Int64}:* *0,1,2,3,4* *julia> **0:10* *11-element

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Just to add my 2 cents: I posted a question about linspace and collect not too long ago. Collect wasn't obvious to me at first, and I tried something like linspace (0, 1, 10)[:] to get the array first. I only needed it for PyPlot. As long as PyPlot works with whatever linspace returns, I'm

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Ranges check bounds when you index them with x[i], but not when you use `for y in x`. Someone could submit a PR for the appropriate change in base/ops.jl. --Tim On Thursday, October 01, 2015 02:55:25 PM Sheehan Olver wrote: > The timings seem to be a sign that special functions over ranges are

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I think an argument for linspace returning an Array is that it makes teaching new programmers Julia a lot easier. If it returns an Array, its sufficient to teach students the Array type. But if it returns a Range, one has to teach an extra data type before the students can use it.

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 8:37:28 AM UTC-4, Sheehan Olver wrote: > > > I think an argument for linspace returning an Array is that it > makes teaching new programmers Julia a lot easier. > > If it returns an Array, its sufficient to teach students the Array type. > But if it

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 3:49:13 AM UTC-4, Tim Holy wrote: > > Ranges check bounds when you index them with x[i], but not when you use > `for y > in x`. Someone could submit a PR for the appropriate change in > base/ops.jl. See also https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/13401

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Thu, Oct 01 2015, Sheehan Olver wrote: > I think an argument for linspace returning an Array is that it makes > teaching new programmers Julia a lot easier. > > If it returns an Array, its sufficient to teach students the Array type. > But if it returns a

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

saying "linspace returns a vector" is a lot easier than explaining "linspace returns a special data type that sometimes acts like a vector, except for when you try to write to it, etc." since linspace is a basic function in numerical analysis, it would come up way before trying to introduce

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I agree and mostly fall in the camp of keeping the new behaviour.in my experience trying to attract MATLAB users is a waste of time: the faster code is in MATLAB the slower it is in Julia, which makes for an awful first experience. It's also not clear why at this early stage Julia would

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I want to add my voice to the dislikers. Those are the type of surprises that are not welcome mainly for matlab users. quarta-feira, 30 de Setembro de 2015 às 16:53:57 UTC+1, Christoph Ortner escreveu: > > I also strongly dislike the `linspace` change; I like the idea though of > having

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Another downvote on linspace returning a range object. It seems odd for linspace and logspace to return different types, and linrange provides the low-memory option where needed. Numpy's `linspace` also returns an array object. I ran into errors when trying to plot a function over a linspace

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Le mercredi 30 septembre 2015 à 10:31 -0700, Alex Ames a écrit : > Another downvote on linspace returning a range object. It seems odd > for linspace and logspace to return different types, and linrange > provides the low-memory option where needed. Numpy's `linspace` also > returns an array

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 1:31:55 PM UTC-4, Alex Ames wrote:\ > > I ran into errors when trying to plot a function over a linspace of x > values, since plotting libs currently expect vectors as arguments, not > range objects. Easily fixed if you know Julia well, but Matlab/Python >

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 2:51:46 PM UTC-4, Christoph Ortner wrote: > > I, on the other hand, don't understand the obsession with abstraction. > > Also, by your argument the following should all be special types rather > than box-standard arrays. > > julia> typeof(ones(10)) >

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

> I, on the other hand, don't understand the obsession with abstraction. I guess reasons to use a high-level language differ, which is good. As long as we don't get too obsessive ;-) > Also, by your argument the following should all be special types rather > than box-standard arrays. > > julia>

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I don't understand this obsession with wanting to store a bunch of numbers in memory which trivially compress. Even more so as most numerical computations are memory bound, so storing more stuff is bad. All the interface functions work with a range (or if not a bug report should be filed), apart

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I, on the other hand, don't understand the obsession with abstraction. Also, by your argument the following should all be special types rather than box-standard arrays. julia> typeof(ones(10)) Array{Float64,1} julia> typeof(zeros(10)) Array{Float64,1} julia> typeof(eye(10)) Array{Float64,2}

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I wasn't even aware that linspace in Python also gives an array. What about R? I think some consistency with existing terminology is useful, at the very least for early adopter.

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Since range and array are more or less interchangeable computationally (but not memory-wise), I suspect the main issue is how a range object should be reported in the REPL. Julia REPL already tries to be smart about reporting an array, either listing out all the elements or showing the

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Just curious: linspace returns a Range object, but logspace returns a vector because there is no much use case for a LogRange object? @feza: I have also seen the deprecation warning going away after a couple of calls, but I am not sure why. If you restart Julia, the deprecations reappear. On

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

FYI this discussion is in relation to Julia 0.4. Initially I had some deprecation warnings but they have mostly gone away. I have no real objection, perhaps it's just a little weird that the repl returns julia> x linspace(0.0,10.0,50) as opposed to printing it out like a full array. Perhaps

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

My main objection is that changing the behaviour of linspace is superfluous considering linrange already existed. If the goal was to encourage users to use a range instead of an array that should of been done through documentation through something like a best practices section (e.g. Use

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:58:31 UTC+1, Luke Stagner wrote: > > My main objection is that changing the behaviour of linspace is > superfluous considering linrange already existed. If the goal was to > encourage users to use a range instead of an array that should of been done >

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 4:01:17 PM UTC-4, Christoph Ortner wrote: > > I simply dislike is that linspace does not behave as expected, and I > expect that this is the main reason for other as well. To give an extreme > analogy, we don't go around and start defining A * B = A + B

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:27:02 UTC+1, Matt Bauman wrote: > > There can be reasons where a special read-only `Ones` array type is > beneficial: http://stackoverflow.com/a/30968709/176071. It's just five > lines of code, and Julia/LLVM is able to optimize it such that >

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote: > Le mercredi 30 septembre 2015 à 08:55 +0200, Michele Zaffalon a écrit : > > Just curious: linspace returns a Range object, but logspace returns a > > vector because there is no much use case for a LogRange object? >

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I just realize that the thread is about 0.3.11 and I am showing output for 0.4.0-rc2. Sorry for the noise. On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Michele Zaffalon < michele.zaffa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Milan Bouchet-Valat > wrote: > >> Le

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:42:33 UTC+1, Steven G. Johnson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 4:01:17 PM UTC-4, Christoph Ortner > wrote: >> >> I simply dislike is that linspace does not behave as expected, and I >> expect that this is the main reason for other as well.

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

The timings seem to be a sign that special functions over ranges are not yet optimized, see variants below using comprehensions that do much better. Note also that collect uses 2x the memory with only a 30% speedup (or 10% slow down, if you also count the time to collect). julia> function

[julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

In matlab x = linspace(0,1,n) creates a vector of floats of length n. In julia it seems like the only way to do this is to use x = collect( linspace(0,1,n) ) . Is there a nicer syntax? I do mainly numeric computing and I find this quite common in my code. Thanks.

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

I'm curious why you need a vector rather than an object. Do you mutate it after creating it? Having linspace return an object instead of a vector was a bit of a unclear judgement call so getting feedback would be good. On Tuesday, September 29, 2015, Patrick Kofod Mogensen <

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Personally I don't like the behaviour. (Perhaps I am just too used to numpy/matlab convention). Also we already had linrange (although curiously not logrange) if we wanted to use a range. On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 5:59:52 PM UTC-7, Stefan Karpinski wrote: > > I'm curious why you need a

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

A range should act (for the most part) exactly like an array. For example indexing into a range is identical (syntax-wise) to indexing an array. What I am concerned about is performance. For instance if I had a range that has a large amount of elements would indexing into it be slower then

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

A range should act (for the most part) exactly like an array. For example indexing into a range is identical (syntax-wise) to indexing an array. What I am concerned about is performance. For instance if I had a range that has a large amount of elements would indexing into it be slower then

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

Strange it *was* giving me an error saying deprecated and that I should use collect, but now it's fine. On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 10:28:12 PM UTC-4, Sheehan Olver wrote: > > fez, I'm pretty sure the code works fine without the collect: when exp is > called on linspace it converts it to

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

For me, I think I just expect a vector from experience, and I could probably just change the way I work with a little effort. One exception (I think) is that I often do numerical integration over a range of values, and I need the results at every value. I'm not sure if there's a way to do that

Re: [julia-users] Nicer syntax collect(linspace(0,1,n))?

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 11:37:44 AM UTC+10, Luke Stagner wrote: > > A range should act (for the most part) exactly like an array. For example > indexing into a range is identical (syntax-wise) to indexing an array. What > I am concerned about is performance. For instance if I had a