D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Noah Davis]

ndavis commandeered this revision.
ndavis added a reviewer: saligari.
ndavis added a comment.


  Saligari is Ok with me taking over this patch.

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  In D29095#656819 , @saligari wrote:
  
  > Oh the shame! I had forgotten to center it (and I do know how to)!
  >
  > One thing I don't know is: since I centered it and used the guidelines my 
1px line centered sits on a 0,5 to 0,5 line. I don't know if that's bad or how 
to change it.
  
  
  That means you need to widen it to 2px. It's between pixels, so it's 2px 
thick when you look at it at the normal size anyway. F8260081: 
Screenshot_20200425_133013.png F8260078: 
Screenshot_20200425_133033.png 

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari updated this revision to Diff 81156.
saligari added a comment.


  Oh the shame! I had forgotten to center it (and I do know how to)!
  
  One thing I don't know is: since I centered it and used the guidelines my 1px 
line centered sits on a 0,5 to 0,5 line. I don't know if that's bad or how to 
change it. 
  Hope it's ok.
  
  Cleaned up the paths a bit since I noticed I had made a horrible union.
  
  Not including a preview since I don't think anything's actually different 
from my last revision visually

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  icons-dark/devices/64/input-mouse.svg
  icons-dark/preferences/32/preferences-desktop-mouse.svg
  icons/devices/64/input-mouse.svg
  icons/preferences/32/preferences-desktop-mouse.svg

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  It's a bit off center and I'd prefer if lines were more aligned with pixels. 
That way the icon doesn't change in how it looks when you scale it up. You may 
need to lighten the colors of your lines to maintain the original appearance.
  
  You see what I'm seeing? Do you know how to enable a grid with 1px spacing? 
F8258844: Screenshot_20200424_223530.png 
  
  This has some tips: 
https://community.kde.org/Guidelines_and_HOWTOs/Icon_Workflow_Tips
  
  Do check out the Inkscape manual as well. It's actually useful and not very 
difficult to read through.

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari updated this revision to Diff 81138.
saligari added a comment.


  My search on the internet told me LGTM stands for looks good to me.
  I added a 32px with 3px margin

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  icons-dark/preferences/32/preferences-desktop-mouse.svg
  icons/devices/64/input-mouse.svg
  icons/preferences/32/preferences-desktop-mouse.svg

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  LGTM now! While you're at it, could you create a 32px version and replace 
`icons/preferences/32/preferences-desktop-mouse.svg`?

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari updated this revision to Diff 81126.
saligari added a comment.


  - a bit darker, with a more pronounced gradient effect

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  icons/devices/64/input-mouse.svg

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  That's much better! I think I'd use a slightly darker shade of gray though. 
Not much, just a bit.

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari updated this revision to Diff 81041.
saligari added a comment.


  - corrected hard edges
  - aaand that's it probably for me, I'm reasonably happy with this and I think 
I've learned quite a bit
  - Here it is ^_^

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  icons/devices/64/input-mouse.svg

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Stefan Brüns]

bruns added a comment.


  > Bruns's comment about right-handed mice (gradient) is due to the quite 
asymmetrical shape many modern mice use for ergonomic reasons (RSI).
  
  No, even for a ball bottom right is darkest. Shapes should be drawn as if 
there were a light at the top left, i.e. with a shadow at the bottom right.

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari updated this revision to Diff 81032.
saligari added a comment.


  - tried to change the shape into something more modern (though I quite like 
the old-ish look)
  - changed the gradient as bruns said, can't say I see much difference
  - removed the middle curve

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  icons/devices/64/input-mouse.svg

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Johan Ouwerkerk]

ouwerkerk added a comment.


  In D29095#655214 , @ngraham wrote:
  
  > FWIW all the mice in my house have this exact shape, but they're black, not 
gray. So I don't think the shape is too old-fashioned per se. It's the gray 
color that's anacrhonistic part,  since it's a very 90s/early 2000s color and 
modern mice tend to be black: F8254746: Screenshot_20200422_210145.png 

  
  
  Well, one thing you'll also note is that modern mice tend to be narrower 
(and/or have a twist in the shape and/or have a slight inwards curve towards 
the middle (top and bottom are wider than the middle part).
  
  Bruns comment about right-handed mice (gradient) is due to the quite 
asymmetrical shape many modern mice use for ergonomic reasons (RSI).

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Stefan Brüns]

bruns added a comment.


  F8255905: bitmap.png 

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Stefan Brüns]

bruns added a comment.


  The new one looks very oldschool. Some ideas how to improve that:
  
  - buttons are typically only separated from each other, but not from the 
body, try removing the horizontal line
  - the body should be narrower at the center
  - the gradient does not match the shape. Bottom right should be darkest

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  Hmm yeah, that gray color is probably too dark. Also a color that dark likely 
wouldn't need an outline as it would be visible on both light and dark 
backgrounds.

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari updated this revision to Diff 80971.
saligari added a comment.


  Changed the icon, with ndavis' help, so that it better fits its 64px place.
  
  I also tried joystick's/input gaming colors but didn't like it much, here's a 
comparison in 64px:

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  icons/devices/64/input-mouse.svg

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  FWIW all the mice in my house have this exact shape, but they're black, not 
gray. So I don't think the shape is too old-fashioned per se. It's the gray 
color that's anacrhonistic part,  since it's a very 90s/early 2000s color and 
modern mice tend to be black: F8254746: Screenshot_20200422_210145.png 

  
  However that dark color causes visibility problems that this new icon is 
fixing. Maybe you could use the same color that's used in the joystick/gaming 
controller icon? That's sort of dark enough to connote darkness while not being 
darn enough to cause visibility issues.

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari added a comment.


  >   If on the other hand you really like the old mouse icon as well but just 
want it to work better for dark themes then another option might be to recolour 
the old icon to get better contrast out of it against the dark background.
  
  I tried modifying the existing icon but the results were horrible. I gave up 
on modifying and made this really simple one. Turns out modifying something 
sounds easier than it is. Or maybe that's because I don't really know how to 
use inkscape
  
  ¯\_ (ツ) _/¯

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Johan Ouwerkerk]

ouwerkerk added a comment.


  In D29095#655060 , @saligari wrote:
  
  > > Maybe this is just me but the overall width to height ratio makes it seem 
that the closest "real" mice are quite dated as well.
  >
  > I don't understand what you mean with this, do you think it should be 
slimmer? I kind of followed the old one in this, even if it doesn't seem like 
it. Right now its ratio is ~0,67 while microsoft's standard old mouse is kind 
of close to that (but has a different shape)
  
  
  Right but that shape makes quite a bit of difference here -- especially since 
real mouse design is *all about* shape. You'll also note that the actual mouse 
you took for inspiration has a much more pronounced "hump" (as many modern mice 
do).
  
  > I don't think an icon for its place needs side buttons, fast scrolling 
buttons etc. Being kind of abstract, simple and out of the way I think is a 
plus in its case.
  
  That is an artistic choice.
  
  > The ergonomic mouse shape/ especially existing icon's left side is really 
cool, but unfortunately I don't have the skills to make something like this (I 
hardly know how to use inkscape). I think it takes a lot of skill to be able to 
create something realistic but also manage to strike a balance and I don't even 
have a little skill.
  
  Rght, I wouldn't have much of a clue either on how to make *any* icon. (It's 
just a lot easier to criticise than it is to create...) If on the other hand 
you really like the old mouse icon as well but just want it to work better for 
dark themes then another option might be to recolour the old icon to get better 
contrast out of it against the dark background.

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari updated this revision to Diff 80935.
saligari added a comment.


  Added a better border, it does look better like this.

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  icons/devices/64/input-mouse.svg

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari added a comment.


  > Maybe this is just me but the overall width to height ratio makes it seem 
that the closest "real" mice are quite dated as well.
  
  I don't understand what you mean with this, do you think it should be 
slimmer? I kind of followed the old one in this, even if it doesn't seem like 
it. Right now its ratio is ~0,67 while microsoft's standard old mouse is kind 
of close to that (but has a different shape)
  
  I don't think an icon for its place needs side buttons, fast scrolling 
buttons etc. Being kind of abstract, simple and out of the way I think is a 
plus in its case.
  
  The ergonomic mouse shape/ especially existing icon's left side is really 
cool, but unfortunately I don't have the skills to make something like this (I 
hardly know how to use inkscape). I think it takes a lot of skill to be able to 
create something realistic but also manage to strike a balance and I don't even 
have a little skill.

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  Yes, I agree that the mouse should have fairly realistic and modern 
proportions. My favorite icons in Breeze are the ones that look pretty 
realistic while still maintaining the soft gradients and shadows.

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Johan Ouwerkerk]

ouwerkerk added a comment.


  One thing I find really striking about the new icon is how closely it 
resembles stress balls:
  
  F8253927: stress-ball-mice.png 
  
  I kinda like that... :)

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Johan Ouwerkerk]

ouwerkerk added a comment.


  Hmm, the old icon also has the virtue of looking more like genuine computer 
mice: it resembles the logi(tech) style of mouse design quite well. This one is 
rather abstract while at the same time somehow not looking like any "real" 
mouse would, in particular in its outline: it misses all the traits of mouse 
design that would make it more ergonomic or smaller. Maybe this is just me but 
the overall width to height ratio makes it seem that the closest "real" mice 
are quite dated as well.
  
  F8253896: so-many-mice.png 
  
  This may be deliberate, but if you complain about it being boring you might 
want to mimic existing mice design a bit closer. For example: why not ditch 
white (which is also a trait of many elderly/ancient mice) and go with a 
different colour (bright colours are quite popular for laptop mice).

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari updated this revision to Diff 80928.
saligari added a comment.


  - Fixed margins
  - added *some* perspective, I hope it looks better. I don't know if maybe I 
should add curvature
  - used inkscape to optimize it
  - I really have no idea on how to make it less boring

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  icons/devices/64/input-mouse.svg

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari added a comment.


  In D29095#655030 , @ngraham wrote:
  
  > Awesome, that's much nicer.
  >
  > I think it needs the outline.border to extend up to the top, or else the 
top of the icon starts to blend in with the default window color: F8253868: 
Screenshot_20200422_124714.png 
  
  
  erm, that was kind of intentional, I'll give it a go but I'm not sure about a 
border extending up to the top

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  Awesome, that's much nicer.
  
  I think it needs the outline.border to extend up to the top, or else the top 
of the icon starts to blend in with the default window color: F8253868: 
Screenshot_20200422_124714.png 

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari added a comment.


  In D29095#654825 , @ndavis wrote:
  
  > Regarding SVG optimization, the main point of it these days is to make the 
code easier to read, not to get the smallest size possible. Use the settings on 
this page for your SVG optimizer: 
https://community.kde.org/Guidelines_and_HOWTOs/Icon_Workflow_Tips
  
  
  Dang it! I did it to another proposal as well before I read this comment. 
Will look into it.
  
  I will look how to add perspective and correct the margins!

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  Regarding SVG optimization, the main point of it these days is to make the 
code easier to read, not to get the smallest size possible. Use the settings on 
this page for your SVG optimizer: 
https://community.kde.org/Guidelines_and_HOWTOs/Icon_Workflow_Tips

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  Things I like:
  
  - It's lighter and will show up in both light and dark themes
  - It isn't trying to look like a cool gaming mouse, which always seemed a bit 
childish to me
  
  Things I don't like:
  
  - The horizontal line in the center needs some perspective so the mouse 
doesn't look totally flat
  - It's maybe a bit "boring" looking, but I guess that's the point, right? Not 
sure what we could do to spice it up a bit without looking silly like the 
current icon
  - The margins aren't right; follow 
https://hig.kde.org/style/icons/colorful/category_preferences.html

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D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari updated this revision to Diff 80889.
saligari added a comment.


  Used svgcleaner to change the icon from 7.3KiB to 1.6KiB

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  icons/devices/64/input-mouse.svg

To: saligari, #vdg
Cc: kde-frameworks-devel, LeGast00n, cblack, michaelh, ngraham, bruns

D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari added a comment.


  Running svgcleaner on this icon turns it from a 7.3 KiB monstrosity to 1.6 
KiB beauty. However I don't know how to update this patch :(.
  
  The existing icon is something like 7.9KiB but this one is doesn't have that 
much detail, it shouldn't be such a big file.

REPOSITORY
  R266 Breeze Icons

REVISION DETAIL
  https://phabricator.kde.org/D29095

To: saligari, #vdg
Cc: kde-frameworks-devel, LeGast00n, cblack, michaelh, ngraham, bruns

D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari edited the test plan for this revision.
saligari added a reviewer: VDG.

REPOSITORY
  R266 Breeze Icons

REVISION DETAIL
  https://phabricator.kde.org/D29095

To: saligari, #vdg
Cc: kde-frameworks-devel, LeGast00n, cblack, michaelh, ngraham, bruns

D29095: New much simpler mouse icon that works in both light and dark breeze

[Chris Escargot]

saligari created this revision.
Herald added a project: Frameworks.
Herald added a subscriber: kde-frameworks-devel.
saligari requested review of this revision.

REVISION SUMMARY
  A very very simple mouse icon, which hopefully adheres to the general HIG. 
Most colors are borrowed from the keyboard icon for consistency and the wheel 
is taken from the previous icon but rounded.

REPOSITORY
  R266 Breeze Icons

BRANCH
  input-mouse-patch (branched from master)

REVISION DETAIL
  https://phabricator.kde.org/D29095

AFFECTED FILES
  icons-dark/devices/64/input-mouse.svg
  icons/devices/64/input-mouse.svg

To: saligari
Cc: kde-frameworks-devel, LeGast00n, cblack, michaelh, ngraham, bruns