[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Marcel de Rooy  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.koha-community
   ||.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi
   ||?id=9490

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Nicole C. Engard  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||a...@bywatersolutions.com

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

David Cook  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.koha-community
   ||.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi
   ||?id=16352

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #40 from David Cook  ---
(In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #37)
> Hi Ian, can you please file this as a separate bug report linked to this one?

Ian and Katrin:

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16352

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #39 from David Cook  ---
(In reply to Ian Bays from comment #36)
> It seems that the change in the xslt to put span around subfields c and h
> has removed the space that was generated between the subfields.
> In koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/xslt/MARC21slim2intranetDetail.xsl there
> is an:
>  
> at line 125 in the otherwise clause that spaces out the subfields.  The two
> that were singled out do not have this.  Adding them back in within the
>  achieves the normal, desired spacing.

I also have observed this...

I suppose I can open a bug for it once I finish a few other tasks...

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #38 from David Cook  ---
(In reply to Winona Salesky from comment #35)
> The order in the for-each does not determine the order of the output.
> Subfields are output in the order they appear in the marc record. They are
> in alphabetical order in the for-each, purely for convenience sake. 
> 
> -Winona
> 

Right you are. I must have been thinking of "subfieldSelect" which does rely on
the order of the string of codes. My bad!

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Ian Bays  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||ian.b...@ptfs-europe.com

--- Comment #36 from Ian Bays  ---
It seems that the change in the xslt to put span around subfields c and h has
removed the space that was generated between the subfields.
In koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/xslt/MARC21slim2intranetDetail.xsl there is
an:
 
at line 125 in the otherwise clause that spaces out the subfields.  The two
that were singled out do not have this.  Adding them back in within the 
achieves the normal, desired spacing.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #37 from Katrin Fischer  ---
Hi Ian, can you please file this as a separate bug report linked to this one?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #35 from Winona Salesky  ---
The order in the for-each does not determine the order of the output. Subfields
are output in the order they appear in the marc record. They are in
alphabetical order in the for-each, purely for convenience sake. 

-Winona

(In reply to David Cook from comment #34)
> I suppose it's way too late for this so someday I'll make a different bug
> but...
> 
> I think the following:
> 
> 
> 

> Should actually be:
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the LoC website
> (http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd245.html), you'll see that $h is
> always between $a and $b.
> 
> --
> 
> Ahh... interesting... in the "CONTENT DESIGNATOR HISTORY", you'll see an
> explanation for this:
> 
> "Prior to 1994, AACR2 cataloging rules required that the medium designator
> be recorded following other title information and all the title in works
> lacking a collective title. In Pre-1994 records, subfield $h generally
> follows subfield $b and even subfield $c in some cases."
> 
> However, in post-1994 records, that does not appear to be the case. If
> anyone has access to the AACR2*, they could verify this.
> 
> *Have to love closed standards in libraries. Terry Reese has a good post
> about this: http://blog.reeset.net/archives/1100

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #34 from David Cook  ---
I suppose it's way too late for this so someday I'll make a different bug
but...

I think the following:



Should actually be:



If you look at the LoC website
(http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd245.html), you'll see that $h is
always between $a and $b.

--

Ahh... interesting... in the "CONTENT DESIGNATOR HISTORY", you'll see an
explanation for this:

"Prior to 1994, AACR2 cataloging rules required that the medium designator be
recorded following other title information and all the title in works lacking a
collective title. In Pre-1994 records, subfield $h generally follows subfield
$b and even subfield $c in some cases."

However, in post-1994 records, that does not appear to be the case. If anyone
has access to the AACR2*, they could verify this.

*Have to love closed standards in libraries. Terry Reese has a good post about
this: http://blog.reeset.net/archives/1100

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Nicole C. Engard  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||15051


Referenced Bugs:

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15051
[Bug 15051] 245 Marc Field Order
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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #33 from Theodoros Theodoropoulos  ---
Sure thing Katrin!

(In case anyone in the future needs the link, the new enhancement request is
found here: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14911)

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Theodoros Theodoropoulos  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||th...@lib.auth.gr

--- Comment #31 from Theodoros Theodoropoulos  ---
Thank you all for this very useful enhancement!

It would be great if the 'full' 245 (ie a, b, c, k, n, p, s subfields) could
also be displayed in Item search results and Serial subscription results (right
now only 245a is displayed under the title columns)!

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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--- Comment #32 from Katrin Fischer  ---
Hi Theodoros,

technically the display works differently there - not using XSLT. Can you
please file separate reports for those pages?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||nic...@bywatersolutions.com

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #30 from Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com ---
Great! 
Thanks,
-Winona

(In reply to Tomás Cohen Arazi from comment #29)
 Pâtch pushed to master.
 
 Thanks Winona!

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Tomás Cohen Arazi tomasco...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||tomasco...@gmail.com
 Status|Passed QA   |Pushed to Master

--- Comment #29 from Tomás Cohen Arazi tomasco...@gmail.com ---
Pâtch pushed to master.

Thanks Winona!

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Kyle M Hall k...@bywatersolutions.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|Signed Off  |Passed QA

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Kyle M Hall k...@bywatersolutions.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Attachment #37228|0   |1
is obsolete||

--- Comment #28 from Kyle M Hall k...@bywatersolutions.com ---
Created attachment 37982
  --
http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=37982action=edit
[PASSED QA] Bug 13381 - RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

This patch updates the display of the title and statement of responsibility in
the
XSLT display in the staff and OPAC.

Display includes subfields a,b,c,h,k,n,p,s
Subfield c is wrapped in a span class=title_resp_stmt for easy suppression via
css.
Subfield h is wrapped in a span class=title_medium for easy suppression via
css.

To test:

* Search the opac
* Click the title
* Make sure the fields display properly
* Repeat for a few more titles
* Repeat in the Staff Client

Signed-off-by: Nick Clemens n...@quecheelibrary.org

Signed-off-by: Kyle M Hall k...@bywatersolutions.com

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Nick Clemens n...@quecheelibrary.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Attachment #37070|0   |1
is obsolete||

--- Comment #27 from Nick Clemens n...@quecheelibrary.org ---
Created attachment 37228
  --
http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=37228action=edit
[SIGNED OFF] Bug 13381 - RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

This patch updates the display of the title and statement of responsibility in
the
XSLT display in the staff and OPAC.

Display includes subfields a,b,c,h,k,n,p,s
Subfield c is wrapped in a span class=title_resp_stmt for easy suppression via
css.
Subfield h is wrapped in a span class=title_medium for easy suppression via
css.

To test:

* Search the opac
* Click the title
* Make sure the fields display properly
* Repeat for a few more titles
* Repeat in the Staff Client

Signed-off-by: Nick Clemens n...@quecheelibrary.org

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Nick Clemens n...@quecheelibrary.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|Needs Signoff   |Signed Off

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Heather Braum hbr...@nekls.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||hbr...@nekls.org

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Attachment #37068|0   |1
is obsolete||

--- Comment #25 from Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com ---
Created attachment 37069
  --
http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=37069action=edit
Updates display of 245 field

Updates for #13381
This patch updates the display of the title and statement of responsibility in
the
XSLT display in the staff and OPAC.

Display includes subfields a,b,c,h,k,n,p,s
Subfield c is wrapped in a span class=title_resp_stmt for easy suppression via
css.
Subfield h is wrapped in a span class=title_medium for easy suppression via
css.

To test:

* Search the opac
* Click the title
* Make sure the fields display properly
* Repeat for a few more titles
* Repeat in the Staff Client

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #23 from Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com ---
Created attachment 37067
  --
http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=37067action=edit
Updates for #13381 This patch updates the display of the title and statement of
responsibility in the XSLT display in the staff and OPAC.

Display includes subfields a,b,c,h,k,n,p,s
Subfield c is wrapped in a span class=title_resp_stmt for easy suppression via
css.
Subfield h is wrapped in a span class=title_medium for easy suppression via
css.

To test:

* Search the opac
* Click the title
* Make sure the fields display properly
* Repeat for a few more titles
* Repeat in the Staff Client

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #24 from Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com ---
Created attachment 37068
  --
http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=37068action=edit
Updates display of 245 field

Updates for #13381
This patch updates the display of the title and statement of responsibility in
the
XSLT display in the staff and OPAC.

Display includes subfields a,b,c,h,k,n,p,s
Subfield c is wrapped in a span class=title_resp_stmt for easy suppression via
css.
Subfield h is wrapped in a span class=title_medium for easy suppression via
css.

To test:

* Search the opac
* Click the title
* Make sure the fields display properly
* Repeat for a few more titles
* Repeat in the Staff Client

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Kyle M Hall k...@bywatersolutions.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Attachment #36783|0   |1
is obsolete||
  Attachment #37067|0   |1
is obsolete||
  Attachment #37069|0   |1
is obsolete||

--- Comment #26 from Kyle M Hall k...@bywatersolutions.com ---
Created attachment 37070
  --
http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=37070action=edit
Bug 13381 - RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

This patch updates the display of the title and statement of responsibility in
the
XSLT display in the staff and OPAC.

Display includes subfields a,b,c,h,k,n,p,s
Subfield c is wrapped in a span class=title_resp_stmt for easy suppression via
css.
Subfield h is wrapped in a span class=title_medium for easy suppression via
css.

To test:

* Search the opac
* Click the title
* Make sure the fields display properly
* Repeat for a few more titles
* Repeat in the Staff Client

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Assignee|neng...@gmail.com   |wsale...@gmail.com
 Status|ASSIGNED|Needs Signoff

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Attachment #34997|0   |1
is obsolete||

--- Comment #22 from Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com ---
Created attachment 36783
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Bug 13381 - RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #21 from Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com ---
Hi All, 
I am finishing up on this bug. It seems to me that there is agreement on the
statement of responsibility being included within a span. However, my
understanding is that issue with subfield h is more complicated and should be
moved to a a new bug, in which case, for this bug, I will simply add a span so
it can be suppressed and the more complex logic can be worked out in a future
bug. 

Hope that works for everyone.
-Winona

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Nick Clemens n...@quecheelibrary.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||n...@quecheelibrary.org
 Status|Needs Signoff   |ASSIGNED

--- Comment #20 from Nick Clemens n...@quecheelibrary.org ---
Marking as ASSIGNED as current patch doesn't seem to do what I think everyone
has agreed. My understanding at the end of of this is:

The following change should be made to the MARC21 details in the staff and
OPAC:

245 Display complete title and statement of responsibility at the beginning of
the record (brief/full display)

Subfield c (statement of responsibility) and subfield h (medium) should be
displayed, but wrapped in a span with a class to make them easily
selectable/editable for styling/hiding.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #19 from David Cook dc...@prosentient.com.au ---
(In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #18)
 Suggestion: Make only changes to the title on this bug and move the bigger
 task of displaying good material type information into a separate bug.

+1

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #18 from Katrin Fischer katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de ---
I am ok with displaying the statement of responsibility, but would suggest
wrapping it in a span with a nice class so libraries can decide to hide it
easily and that way get back to the old display - and also use a similar
technique for the $h.

---

About the material type information:

If I understood correctly. 245$h is going to go away and the coded fields
LDR/007/008 as well. So we will need to put some thought into how we want to
display material type information in future.

The existing code for the material type is a bit messy - for example the
display logic for the result page differs from the detail page. I think
cleaning that up would be a good first step. For example we can put the logic
in a template that will be used on both pages.

Then we could add support of 336-338 and display this information instead
whenever they exist. We also have to keep in mind that the new fields are
repeatable.

Suggestion: Make only changes to the title on this bug and move the bigger task
of displaying good material type information into a separate bug.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Kyle M Hall k...@bywatersolutions.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|ASSIGNED|Needs Signoff

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Kyle M Hall k...@bywatersolutions.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Attachment #34464|0   |1
is obsolete||
  Attachment #34996|0   |1
is obsolete||

--- Comment #15 from Kyle M Hall k...@bywatersolutions.com ---
Created attachment 34997
  --
http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=34997action=edit
Bug 13381 - RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #17 from David Cook dc...@prosentient.com.au ---
(In reply to rgravel from comment #16)
 Statement of Responsibility:
 I am a cataloger and I do like the full statement of responsibility, ie the
 whole 245 field, to display at the top of the record. I think it is in fact
 helpful to patrons, because it is written in plain language and so clearly
 indicates to a patron whether the record they've found matches their needs. 
 It is fairly common in other systems and academic libraries to include the
 full statement, because it readily helps patrons understand what the record
 is a surrogate for, i.e. which book exactly the record really represents. 
 

Hmm, fair enough. As a patron, I suppose I would prefer to see Moby Dick /
Herman Melville ; retold by Kathy Burke. rather than just Moby Dick. As you
say, it's a more accurate surrogate that way. 

Of course, if you have a lengthy statement of responsibility, the detail page
is going to get awfully crowded as the title/statement of responsibility area
is currently in a h1 element with a font size of about 140%. It's not so bad in
the search results where the title/statement of responsibility is in an a
element with about 104% font size.

I suppose as a patron, (technical services) librarian, and developer, I'd like
the display to be as useful as possible while also being usable/aesthetically
pleasing. 

Maybe changing the font size for the h1 to 120% instead of 140% will allow for
an easier to read heading, when more text is displayed.

 Furthermore, sometimes the statement differs from what is included in 100s
 and 700s, because it is up to the cataloger's taste and judgement to decide
 whether to make an access point for those folks listed in the statement. So,
 as a result, you could have important bibliographic information included in
 the statement, but no where else in the record, which is another reason I
 think many systems chose to display it. 
 

Very true, especially in the case of AACR2 records where the rule of three
was encouraged. 

That said, if I recall correctly, cataloguers can choose to snip the statement
of responsibility as well if it's too long... but then that sort of negates my
earlier point about being concerned about overly long statements of
responsibility ;).

 GMD/Medium:
 Because there will be a mix of legacy AACR2 and new RDA records in our
 catalogs, we can no longer *consistently* rely on the GMD as the indicator
 of medium. The good news is, there are other indicators in the record that
 are consistent across AACR2 and RDA records, like the material type that is
 pulled from MARC's fixed fields/leader and already populates a Type tag in
 the record; a new medium or format tag that pulled the GMD in would be
 duplicative of this in my opinion. The type selected for the items, as well
 as any call number prefixes that might be use for DVDs or Ebooks, as also
 consistent indicators, not to mention RDA's new 33x fields.

Unfortunately, most of the records I encounter don't have any data or correct
data in the fixed fields/leader when it comes to the material type. I work
mainly in special libraries where knowledge of library cataloguing standards,
which can be readily found in public and academic libraries, is much more rare. 

On one hand, this can be incentive to clean-up old records and re-train staff
to catalogue more properly. On the other hand, no one in special libraries
has time or money for that. In theory, I'd like to rely on the leader and the
fixed fields, but in practice I find that cataloguers just aren't consistent
enough.

That's why I think libraries introduced the RDA 33x fields. All that data was
already there, but now there is an easier (albeit also error-prone) way of
writing it out.

But yeah... 33x fields, leader/fixed fields, item type, GMD, call number
prefixes... there isn't a whole lot of consistency or reliability. 

In all honesty, I've been thinking about the possibility of introducing a
Koha-specific record type. It seems that this sort of thing is pretty common
in other systems like Summon and EDS. It would be indexed, so you could search
it specifically or you could use it as a facet. It would display in the search
results and on the detail page, so that patrons could easily see what sort of
record the library deems it to be. The advantage of a record type over an item
type is that item type is currently mixed up between items and bib records via
the 942$c. It would be a high-level record type - completely unrelated to MARC
- which would be based on improving discoverability.

Why should we be bound to MARC? Ebsco and Serial Solutions ignore it/enhance
it, and people love their systems and laud them for discovery.

(Of course, adding a Koha-specific record type would make bulk importing
records more difficult without a predefined mapping to use something in MARC to
map to the Koha-specific record type)

--

In summary, 

[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #14 from Kyle M Hall k...@bywatersolutions.com ---
Created attachment 34996
  --
http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=34996action=edit
Bug 13381 [2] - RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

rgra...@marlboro.edu changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||rgra...@marlboro.edu

--- Comment #16 from rgra...@marlboro.edu ---
Statement of Responsibility:
I am a cataloger and I do like the full statement of responsibility, ie the
whole 245 field, to display at the top of the record. I think it is in fact
helpful to patrons, because it is written in plain language and so clearly
indicates to a patron whether the record they've found matches their needs.  It
is fairly common in other systems and academic libraries to include the full
statement, because it readily helps patrons understand what the record is a
surrogate for, i.e. which book exactly the record really represents. 

Furthermore, sometimes the statement differs from what is included in 100s and
700s, because it is up to the cataloger's taste and judgement to decide whether
to make an access point for those folks listed in the statement. So, as a
result, you could have important bibliographic information included in the
statement, but no where else in the record, which is another reason I think
many systems chose to display it. 

GMD/Medium:
Because there will be a mix of legacy AACR2 and new RDA records in our
catalogs, we can no longer *consistently* rely on the GMD as the indicator of
medium. The good news is, there are other indicators in the record that are
consistent across AACR2 and RDA records, like the material type that is pulled
from MARC's fixed fields/leader and already populates a Type tag in the record;
a new medium or format tag that pulled the GMD in would be duplicative of this
in my opinion. The type selected for the items, as well as any call number
prefixes that might be use for DVDs or Ebooks, as also consistent indicators,
not to mention RDA's new 33x fields.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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--- Comment #12 from Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com ---
Comment received via email:
-

Can the suppression of the 245h be an optional choice? Even though it is not
being used in RDA records, some people like to see it if is there. In AACR2
records, without the 336, 337, 338 fields it may be harder for patrons to tell
what format the item is if the h subfield is suppressed.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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--- Comment #13 from Katrin Fischer katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de ---
Maybe it would work to wrap $h in a span with a class? easy to hide then if
you don't want to see it in the title :)

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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--- Comment #8 from Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com ---
Okay. I think a reasonable approach would be to leave off subfield c, and add a
test if a record accidentally has a 245$h and a 337 and only show one. 

-Winona

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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--- Comment #9 from Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com ---
Just for clarification, there is currently no Media type in the record. We
want to add a test to check for 337, if no 337, show 245$h?

Thank you. 
-Winona

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #10 from David Cook dc...@prosentient.com.au ---
(In reply to Winona Salesky from comment #9)
 Just for clarification, there is currently no Media type in the record. We
 want to add a test to check for 337, if no 337, show 245$h?
 
 Thank you. 
 -Winona

I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean that the XSLT doesn't currently show the
337?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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--- Comment #11 from Katrin Fischer katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de ---
(In reply to Winona Salesky from comment #9)
 Just for clarification, there is currently no Media type in the record. We
 want to add a test to check for 337, if no 337, show 245$h?
 
 Thank you. 
 -Winona

The logic sounds right to me

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #7 from Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to David Cook from comment #6)
 This is certainly an interesting one. As LOC notes, the AACR2 GMD is
 replaced by the 336, 337, and 338 in RDA. 
 
 As a result, I'm not sure about putting the 245$h into its own Medium
 field, as the 337 already represents Media type. However, I don't think it
 would be a good idea to put the GMD into the Media type field if a 337
 isn't available.
 
 If a record has a GMD, I think librarians would expect to see it in the
 title. I suppose a patron might expect to see it in a Medium field... but I
 think having Medium/Media would be confusing, especially if a record
 accidentally has a 245$h and a 337...

My thought here is that no library can afford to re catalog their collection so
their old records will still have the GMD and we should show that.  So I'm
thinking an IF statement.  Show the 337 next to Media type if it's there but if
it's not then show the GMD.

 
 As a side note, why do we want to add the statement of responsibility back
 into the top of the record? Is that a RDA requirement? It looks awful...
 while it might be something librarians like, I imagine patrons wouldn't like
 it too much.

I agree - the author should be where it was - no reason to move it up.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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--- Comment #4 from Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com ---
Created attachment 34464
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Bug 13381 [ENH] 245 field enhancements

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Katrin Fischer katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de

--- Comment #5 from Katrin Fischer katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de ---
Hi Winona, thx for working on this :) 

My impression is that with RDA a lot more persons/authors can be added to a
record, so I'd prefer the medium to be a bit more prominent - especially in the
result list. I am not sure how to achieve that best.

Not a lot of people are following the bug list or are added cc here - maybe try
emailing the Koha main list to lead more people here?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

David Cook dc...@prosentient.com.au changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||dc...@prosentient.com.au

--- Comment #6 from David Cook dc...@prosentient.com.au ---
This is certainly an interesting one. As LOC notes, the AACR2 GMD is replaced
by the 336, 337, and 338 in RDA. 

As a result, I'm not sure about putting the 245$h into its own Medium field,
as the 337 already represents Media type. However, I don't think it would be
a good idea to put the GMD into the Media type field if a 337 isn't
available.

If a record has a GMD, I think librarians would expect to see it in the title.
I suppose a patron might expect to see it in a Medium field... but I think
having Medium/Media would be confusing, especially if a record accidentally has
a 245$h and a 337...

I don't know. 

The funny thing about MARC is that we could also be determining medium from
the 007 or the leader or a combination...

In a way, there are too many options and none of them are consistently helpful
to end users :S.

I don't like the idea of cluttering a screen with all the different format
options, but re-using labels can also be confusing. 

Of course, at the end of the day, we use custom XSLTs for everyone, so I don't
have too much of a vested interest in this one, except apart from not wanting
to overly customize our own versions.

--

As a side note, why do we want to add the statement of responsibility back into
the top of the record? Is that a RDA requirement? It looks awful... while it
might be something librarians like, I imagine patrons wouldn't like it too
much.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

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Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||wsale...@gmail.com

--- Comment #2 from Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com ---
Hi, I am working on the XSLT and would like to know how users feel about
displaying subfield h separated from the title. Perhaps next to the Medium
label, rather then suppressing it. 

Example below:


Concerto for orchestra ; Music for strings, percussion  celesta [sound
recording] / Béla Bartók.

Author(s): Bartók, Béla.

Additional author(s): Bernstein, Leonard; Bartók, Béla; New York Philharmonic
[prf].


Would become:

Concerto for orchestra ; Music for strings, percussion  celesta / Béla Bartók.

Author(s): Bartók, Béla.

Additional author(s): Bernstein, Leonard; Bartók, Béla; New York Philharmonic
[prf].

Format: sound recording

Thanks.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #3 from Winona Salesky wsale...@gmail.com ---
That label should be:
Medium: sound recording

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||10344

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 13381] RDA: 245 field changes in XSLT

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13381

--- Comment #1 from Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com ---
[07:36]  cait nengard: not sure about hiding h in 245
[07:37]  cait we use that quite a lot and it helps identifying electronic
resources in the result list

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