KR> How do you test a transponder?
'Hooking it up to a battery' without an antenna connected can damage it. On 6/2/2014 10:25 PM, Mike T via KRnet wrote: > I'll need a Mode C transponder in my plane, and one I wanted is for sale > used at a decent price from Aircraft Spruce. If I wind up getting it, I > could hook it up to a battery and see that the lights go on, etc., but how > would you actually test a transponder (or any used instrument, really), > without having a flying airplane to put it in? > > > Mike Taglieri > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options
KR> How do you test a transponder?
The Mode C veil is not going to go away. Instead, in 2020 you will have an additional requirement of either a Mode-S transponder with extended squitter and GPS position reporting encoded into the extended squitter (known as 1090-ES) to replace your Mode-C transponder, or you can have ADS-B Out (978 UAT) in addition to your Mode-C transponder. You get to pick your poison. Note: this 2020 requirement only applies with few exceptions to the same areas where Mode-C is currently required if you have an electric system equipped aircraft. FWIW, I currently use a Mode-C transponder and ADS-B weather services (FIS-B) along with PCAS for traffic avoidance. By the end of this year, I plan to have my KR fully equipped with ADS-B traffic in (TIS-B in) and out (TIS-B out) along with ADS-B weather (FIS-B), all through my GPS with a 978 UAT to go along with my old Mode-C transponder. If you fly around traffic very much, you'll find these services to be quite handy. -Jeff Scott Los Alamos, NM
KR> How do you test a transponder?
Correction for my last post.The GDL 39 is not a transceiver,a receiver only,and would not be considered A UAT.Tommy W. On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Jeff Scott via KRnet wrote: > The Mode C veil is not going to go away. Instead, in 2020 you will have an > additional requirement of either a Mode-S transponder with extended > squitter and GPS position reporting encoded into the extended squitter > (known as 1090-ES) to replace your Mode-C transponder, or you can have > ADS-B Out (978 UAT) in addition to your Mode-C transponder. You get to pick > your poison. > > Note: this 2020 requirement only applies with few exceptions to the same > areas where Mode-C is currently required if you have an electric system > equipped aircraft. > > FWIW, I currently use a Mode-C transponder and ADS-B weather services > (FIS-B) along with PCAS for traffic avoidance. By the end of this year, I > plan to have my KR fully equipped with ADS-B traffic in (TIS-B in) and out > (TIS-B out) along with ADS-B weather (FIS-B), all through my GPS with a 978 > UAT to go along with my old Mode-C transponder. If you fly around traffic > very much, you'll find these services to be quite handy. > > -Jeff Scott > Los Alamos, NM > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options >
KR> How do you test a transponder?
Here's my story concerning transponders.Rick Human gave a good description of Mode S and ADSB.I removed my KT-76 and ACK30 encoder from the KR because it was dead weight as far as I was concerned.The units worked fine but my flying was not in class A,B,or C airspace.And yes it is better to have one and not need it than need it and not have one.The KT-76 in my plane was as good as they come.I gave $400 bucks for it years ago.I was able to install it and do the 2 year tests because I spent the last 40 years in avionics.I put the transponder,encoder,and harness on barnstormers for $250 and it sold the first day.The buyer was leery because it was so cheap.Told him to try it and if it did not work send it back for a refund.Here is the caveat.I started installing GA avionics in 1975 when the KT-76 not the KT-76A was state of the art.No one should think a 40 year transponder is worth what people regularly give for them for the fact that the RF cavity could fail any minute and render the bargain transponder useless.Sure you can repair it,for about the cost of a new transponder[Mode C].The same is true for any used Mode C unit.ADS-B "OUT" is mandated for Class A,B,and C airspace by 2020.ADS-B out can be accomplished using Mode S with extended squitter.It will NOT give the aircraft you are in the info "IN" just the required ADS-B OUT.A UAT transceiver such as the GarminGDL 39 will be used for ADS-B IN or into the plane you are flying.The new system using satellite technology is up and running.It works well an will only get better and it is up to the owner operator to take advantage of the capability afforded to us by the best ATC system in aviation.Tommy W. On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 7:30 AM, Robert7721 via KRnet wrote: > My airplane setup is pretty close to what you are describing. I have a > Dynon D6 and use its encoder output to provide altitude to a used Collins > Transponder I purchased on the ebay avionics list for $400. It hasn't > change from 1200 since the day I installed it but it does work fine. The > Collins 850 was the only "old" transponder type I could find to fit behind > my panel as it is only 8.5" deep. > > > Rob Schmitt > N1852Z > www.robert7721.com > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Mike T via KRnet > To: brian.kraut ; KRnet < > krnet at list.krnet.org> > Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 12:08 am > Subject: Re: KR> How do you test a transponder? > > > I'm planning on getting a Dynon D6 EFIS, which is currently $1600. This > replaces all the primary instruments and several others as well, and its > altimeter is encoding. I'm waiting on that because the price will only go > down (unless Dynon introduces a new model -- then it will REALLY go down). > > So at the moment, I don't have an encoder, an antenna, or anything else. > But the transponder was a Terra 250 D, which I've lusted after for a long > time. I was flying a few weeks ago with a guy who just put one in his > Kitfox and loves it. > > However, it's not so rare that I can't wait awhile, especially if Mode S is > really going to be required. I wish someone would introduce a cheap > transponder for sport pilot planes and others who only fly VFR. It would > be fine with me if it only broadcast at 1200. > > Mike Taglieri > > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 11:18 PM, via KRnet wrote: > > > Reminds me of something I did on my plane. As an electronics designer, > > this would be too embarassing to tell this story, but hopefully it will > > save someone else from doing the same thing. > > > > When I bought my M2 I knew that it needed a transponder test before I > > could operate mode C legally. Wanting to make sure it at least worked > > before I brought it to a shop to pay for a static test I thought I would > > check it first. Went up a few thousand feet and called a tower to > > confirm that they could read my code. Then switched on Mode C and they > > had no altitude report. Tried again the next week and same thing even > > though the guy I bought it from said it worked fine. > > > > Pulled the transponder and brought it to a friend that had the test > > equipment and he confirmed it was fine so must be the encoder. No > > problem, I had a spare. Put it in the plane, called a tower, turned on > > Mode C, no altitude. Arrrgh. > > > > Bought a used one from Wentworth and tried it, no luck. Had them send > > me another, still no good. > > > > Transponder and all wiring good so I decided that I must be overlooking > > something so I built an encoder test set (fairly easy with just > > resistors and LEDs to read the grey code). Hooked it up with tubing > > through a T going
KR> How do you test a transponder?
My airplane setup is pretty close to what you are describing. I have a Dynon D6 and use its encoder output to provide altitude to a used Collins Transponder I purchased on the ebay avionics list for $400. It hasn't change from 1200 since the day I installed it but it does work fine. The Collins 850 was the only "old" transponder type I could find to fit behind my panel as it is only 8.5" deep. Rob Schmitt N1852Z www.robert7721.com -Original Message- From: Mike T via KRnet To: brian.kraut ; KRnet Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 12:08 am Subject: Re: KR> How do you test a transponder? I'm planning on getting a Dynon D6 EFIS, which is currently $1600. This replaces all the primary instruments and several others as well, and its altimeter is encoding. I'm waiting on that because the price will only go down (unless Dynon introduces a new model -- then it will REALLY go down). So at the moment, I don't have an encoder, an antenna, or anything else. But the transponder was a Terra 250 D, which I've lusted after for a long time. I was flying a few weeks ago with a guy who just put one in his Kitfox and loves it. However, it's not so rare that I can't wait awhile, especially if Mode S is really going to be required. I wish someone would introduce a cheap transponder for sport pilot planes and others who only fly VFR. It would be fine with me if it only broadcast at 1200. Mike Taglieri On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 11:18 PM, via KRnet wrote: > Reminds me of something I did on my plane. As an electronics designer, > this would be too embarassing to tell this story, but hopefully it will > save someone else from doing the same thing. > > When I bought my M2 I knew that it needed a transponder test before I > could operate mode C legally. Wanting to make sure it at least worked > before I brought it to a shop to pay for a static test I thought I would > check it first. Went up a few thousand feet and called a tower to > confirm that they could read my code. Then switched on Mode C and they > had no altitude report. Tried again the next week and same thing even > though the guy I bought it from said it worked fine. > > Pulled the transponder and brought it to a friend that had the test > equipment and he confirmed it was fine so must be the encoder. No > problem, I had a spare. Put it in the plane, called a tower, turned on > Mode C, no altitude. Arrrgh. > > Bought a used one from Wentworth and tried it, no luck. Had them send > me another, still no good. > > Transponder and all wiring good so I decided that I must be overlooking > something so I built an encoder test set (fairly easy with just > resistors and LEDs to read the grey code). Hooked it up with tubing > through a T going to the encoder and an altimeter so I could read the > code and verify it was correct. Powered up and altitude read something > like 200' and would not change on all three encoders, weird. > > While pondering what could be wrong all of a sudden the altitude changed > and I verified by pulling vacuum with the syringe that it was correct. > Turns out that the old style encoders need the temperature to stabilize > for about two minutes before they start sending altitude. Not wanting > to be reporting without knowing if it worked I had been turning the > encoder on just before asking for an altitude check and the unit was not > warmed up yet. Live an learn. Anyone want to buy three tested good > encoders? > > Brian Kraut > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options > ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> How do you test a transponder?
I'm planning on getting a Dynon D6 EFIS, which is currently $1600. This replaces all the primary instruments and several others as well, and its altimeter is encoding. I'm waiting on that because the price will only go down (unless Dynon introduces a new model -- then it will REALLY go down). So at the moment, I don't have an encoder, an antenna, or anything else. But the transponder was a Terra 250 D, which I've lusted after for a long time. I was flying a few weeks ago with a guy who just put one in his Kitfox and loves it. However, it's not so rare that I can't wait awhile, especially if Mode S is really going to be required. I wish someone would introduce a cheap transponder for sport pilot planes and others who only fly VFR. It would be fine with me if it only broadcast at 1200. Mike Taglieri On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 11:18 PM, via KRnet wrote: > Reminds me of something I did on my plane. As an electronics designer, > this would be too embarassing to tell this story, but hopefully it will > save someone else from doing the same thing. > > When I bought my M2 I knew that it needed a transponder test before I > could operate mode C legally. Wanting to make sure it at least worked > before I brought it to a shop to pay for a static test I thought I would > check it first. Went up a few thousand feet and called a tower to > confirm that they could read my code. Then switched on Mode C and they > had no altitude report. Tried again the next week and same thing even > though the guy I bought it from said it worked fine. > > Pulled the transponder and brought it to a friend that had the test > equipment and he confirmed it was fine so must be the encoder. No > problem, I had a spare. Put it in the plane, called a tower, turned on > Mode C, no altitude. Arrrgh. > > Bought a used one from Wentworth and tried it, no luck. Had them send > me another, still no good. > > Transponder and all wiring good so I decided that I must be overlooking > something so I built an encoder test set (fairly easy with just > resistors and LEDs to read the grey code). Hooked it up with tubing > through a T going to the encoder and an altimeter so I could read the > code and verify it was correct. Powered up and altitude read something > like 200' and would not change on all three encoders, weird. > > While pondering what could be wrong all of a sudden the altitude changed > and I verified by pulling vacuum with the syringe that it was correct. > Turns out that the old style encoders need the temperature to stabilize > for about two minutes before they start sending altitude. Not wanting > to be reporting without knowing if it worked I had been turning the > encoder on just before asking for an altitude check and the unit was not > warmed up yet. Live an learn. Anyone want to buy three tested good > encoders? > > Brian Kraut > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options >
KR> How do you test a transponder?
Reminds me of something I did on my plane. As an electronics designer, this would be too embarassing to tell this story, but hopefully it will save someone else from doing the same thing. When I bought my M2 I knew that it needed a transponder test before I could operate mode C legally. Wanting to make sure it at least worked before I brought it to a shop to pay for a static test I thought I would check it first. Went up a few thousand feet and called a tower to confirm that they could read my code. Then switched on Mode C and they had no altitude report. Tried again the next week and same thing even though the guy I bought it from said it worked fine. Pulled the transponder and brought it to a friend that had the test equipment and he confirmed it was fine so must be the encoder. No problem, I had a spare. Put it in the plane, called a tower, turned on Mode C, no altitude. Arrrgh. Bought a used one from Wentworth and tried it, no luck. Had them send me another, still no good. Transponder and all wiring good so I decided that I must be overlooking something so I built an encoder test set (fairly easy with just resistors and LEDs to read the grey code). Hooked it up with tubing through a T going to the encoder and an altimeter so I could read the code and verify it was correct. Powered up and altitude read something like 200' and would not change on all three encoders, weird. While pondering what could be wrong all of a sudden the altitude changed and I verified by pulling vacuum with the syringe that it was correct. Turns out that the old style encoders need the temperature to stabilize for about two minutes before they start sending altitude. Not wanting to be reporting without knowing if it worked I had been turning the encoder on just before asking for an altitude check and the unit was not warmed up yet. Live an learn. Anyone want to buy three tested good encoders? Brian Kraut
KR> How do you test a transponder?
I agree with everyone that said wait until you are about 2 days away from your install date. Regs and equipment capability are changing all the time. But I had a need to check the transponder and encoder output in my old airplane where I had an intermittent issue that the shops could not find. It ALWAYS worked when they had it.. I purchased on EBay a old devise that reads the output of your transponder via the radio waves it transmits. This requires that you need to have the transponder interrogated to see the output but with all the mode S systems around that should be no big deal. I am assuming you currently do NOT have an airplane set up for the transponder. This would mean you would need a test setup including power and interconnect between the transponder and encoder as well as an antenna (with ground plane). Then hang around a larger airport or perferabily one with an ATC radar and wait. Assuming you have the unit on sooner or later the unit will be interrogated and my little black box will show transponder output. Hook up a small suction devise to the static port connection on the encoder and draw a small vacuum and you can watch the altitude read out go up as well. I'll be happy to loan it to you if you pay shipping both ways. Come to think about it waiting until you actually are ready to install and having the entire unit Mode C certified (every two year requirement) for a small fee is sounding better and better. Just my 2 cents. As they say your mileage may vary. Gary Shubert Working hard to finish and fly my KR to Chino... I Hope .. I Hope .. I Hope .. I Hope .
KR> How do you test a transponder?
This is just going to be a simple, VFR plane. The only reason I'm having a transponder at all is that in NYC I live under probably the largest Class B in the country (the three major NYC-area airports overlap one another) and it's almost impossible to avoid the mode-C veil, so I either have to fly without an electrical system or have a mode C transponder. Mode S is the newest toy, but I hope the FAA isn't going to require it in all planes. Mike Taglieri On Jun 3, 2014 1:25 AM, "Mike T via KRnet" wrote: > I'll need a Mode C transponder in my plane, and one I wanted is for sale > used at a decent price from Aircraft Spruce. If I wind up getting it, I > could hook it up to a battery and see that the lights go on, etc., but how > would you actually test a transponder (or any used instrument, really), > without having a flying airplane to put it in? > > > Mike Taglieri > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options >
KR> How do you test a transponder?
My Skyview has ADSB in/out and a Mode S transponder. This combination gives you weather and traffic. My thinking on this, is that when the ADSB module takes on the function of transmitting your altitude, then this may happen. Has anyone heard anything about Mode S and future transponder capability going away? I have not. Dan Heath ___ My understanding is that with the advent of ADS-B, transponders will become somewhat obsolete in a hurry, replaced by ADS-B hardware instead.
KR> How do you test a transponder?
>From : http://www.trig-avionics.com/adsb.html "What equipment do I need? To support ADS-B "Out", the aircraft must have a GPS receiver as the position source, and a datalink transmitter to actually send the ADS-B data. The datalink transmitter that most aircraft will use is a Mode S transponder, using a feature called "Extended Squitter". The Mode S transponder with Extended Squitter is the international standard for ADS-B output. Specific to US airspace - and not approved elsewhere - is the UAT datalink transmitter as an alternative to the Mode S transponder. UAT transmitters may only be used on GA aircraft flying at lower altitudes in the USA. The GPS receiver used must be an IFR certified receiver. Although that GPS is not required to be WAAS capable, that may be a moot point. Many legacy GPS receivers that were designed before ADS-B was planned do not include the necessary calculation of integrity and accuracy that ADS-B needs to operate. It is unlikely that these older devices can be upgraded, and therefore a new GPS receiver would be required. Most new GPS products today are WAAS capable." So if you need a transponder looks like a Mode S would be the one to look for, or stay out of A,B or C airspace. Rick Human N202RH Houston, Tx ___ My understanding is that with the advent of ADS-B, transponders will become somewhat obsolete in a hurry, replaced by ADS-B hardware instead. ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> How do you test a transponder?
Mike Taglieri wrote: >>I'll need a Mode C transponder in my plane, and one I wanted is for sale used at a decent price from Aircraft Spruce. If I wind up getting it, I could hook it up to a battery and see that the lights go on, etc., but how would you actually test a transponder (or any used instrument, really), without having a flying airplane to put it in? << My understanding is that with the advent of ADS-B, transponders will become somewhat obsolete in a hurry, replaced by ADS-B hardware instead. That may explain why it's so cheap, and may be good reason to hold off...you either won't need one or they will be a dime a dozen... Mark Langford, Harvest, AL ML at N56ML.com www.N56ML.com
KR> How do you test a transponder?
Avionics shops do this on the bench, and often have cheap salvaged parts to repair/refresh. As with most transmitters, dont operate it without a load (antenna). Peter but howwould you actually test a transponder (or any used instrument, really),without having a flying airplane to put it in?Mike Taglieri
KR> How do you test a transponder?
Yes, but that is the required test to assure that your transponder is sending the altitude that is being reported by your Altitude indicator in your aircraft. If you are buying a transponder, and do not have an aircraft to use it in, I strongly suggest that you wait until you are ready to install it in your aircraft. They will only get less expensive over time. On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 7:34 AM, Mark Jones via KRnet wrote: = - Original Message - From: "Mike > how would you actually test a transponder Mike, Check with your local FBO or A&P and ask them who in your area tests and calibrates transponders. In my area there is a guy who travels from airport to airport and performs this service for a fee of $75. We get a notice from our FBO when he will be here and we all make the appointments if needed. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Stevens Point, WI E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net Web: www.flykr2s.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> How do you test a transponder?
At 12:25 AM 6/3/2014, you wrote: >I'll need a Mode C transponder in my plane, and one I wanted is for sale >used at a decent price from Aircraft Spruce. >Mike Taglieri Does Aircraft Spruce sell it with a warranty? If so, wait till it is installed to check it out. Don't power it up without an antenna or you could smoke the unit. Larry Flesner
KR> How do you test a transponder?
- Original Message - From: "Mike > how would you actually test a transponder Mike, Check with your local FBO or A&P and ask them who in your area tests and calibrates transponders. In my area there is a guy who travels from airport to airport and performs this service for a fee of $75. We get a notice from our FBO when he will be here and we all make the appointments if needed. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Stevens Point, WI E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net Web: www.flykr2s.com
KR> How do you test a transponder?
I'll need a Mode C transponder in my plane, and one I wanted is for sale used at a decent price from Aircraft Spruce. If I wind up getting it, I could hook it up to a battery and see that the lights go on, etc., but how would you actually test a transponder (or any used instrument, really), without having a flying airplane to put it in? Mike Taglieri
