Re: KR> KR-1B possible regulations

[Larry Storlie via KRnet]

Amateur built aircraft are not type certified. These requirements do not
apply.

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Kayak via KRnet 
wrote:

> I looked into this and a motor glider must have certain specs to qualify.
>
> IIRC, wing span to gross weight.  However, the sonex page states that
> tyhis may not apply to experimental category, and certainly a 27ft
> wingspan on a KR1 would fly more like a glider. Especially if equipped
> with a full feathering prop for example.
>
> Here it is:
>
> https://www.sonexaircraft.com/aircraft-certification/
>
>
> Definition of Motorglider or Powered Sailplane
>
> Sonex Aircraft, LLC accepts the formal definition of Powered
> Sailplanes for Type Certificated Aircraft from both the United States
> and the European Aviation Authorities. While it is not formally
> defined that an Aircraft Registered in the Experimental Category must
> meet these same criteria, any aircraft which does meet the criteria is
> an indisputable "Motorglider" or "Powered Sailplane." The language in
> both the U.S. and the European documents are nearly identical and the
> portion of the documents which apply to this definition as follows:
>
>
>
> United States Department of Transportation, Federal Aviation Administration
> Advisory Circular AC 21-17a, dated 10 February 1993
>
> 7. ACCEPTABLE CRITERIA.
>   b. Additional Criteria for Powered Gliders.
> (1) Powered fixed wing gliders may be type certificated under
> Section 21.17(b) if:
>   (i) The number of occupants does not exceed two;
>   (ii) Maximum weight does not exceed 850 kg (1874 pounds); and
>   (iii) The maximum weight to wing span squared (w/b2) does not
> exceed 3.0 kg/M2 (0.62 lb./ft.2).
> NOTE: These criteria originated from JAR-22.
>
> Joint Aviation Authorities
> JAR-22 Amendment 7, dated 1 September 2003
>
> JAR 22.1 Applicability
> (a) This JAR-22 prescribes minimum airworthiness standards for the
> issue of type certificates, and changes to those certificates, for
> sailplanes and powered sailplanes in the utility U and aerobatic A
> categories:
>   (1)  Sailplanes the maximum weight of which does not exceed 750 kg:
>   (2)  Single engine (spark- or compression-ignition) powered
> sailplanes the design value W/b2 (weight to span2) of which is not
> greater than 3(W[kg], b[m]) and the maximum weight of which does not
> exceed 850 kg: and
>   (3)  Sailplanes and powered sailplanes the number of occupants of
> which does not exceed two.
>
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Re: KR> KR-1B ?

[Mark Langford via KRnet]

I asked Jeannette several years ago about the KR-1B, and she said to her
knowledge only one had ever been completed and flown, and that was the
prototype.  She paid somebody to fly off the 40 hours, and last time I
saw it, it was apart and hanging on the wall of Rand Robinson before it
closed up.  I have also heard that the motor-glider is a big loophole
that surprisingly few people take advantage of.  But with Light Sport
and BasicMed, I wouldn't think many KR people would be interested in
going so slow, so maybe not so surprising..

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML "at" N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com



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Re: KR> KR-1B ?

[Larry Storlie via KRnet]

There are no regs that spells out requirements for an amateur built motor
glider.  Just check that box when you register the aircraft.  You will need
a sign off  to operate a self launch glider and a PVT-G rating to carry a
passenger.
This would be a great loophole for all those too heavy ultralights.

On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 6:52 PM, Kayak via KRnet 
wrote:

> See a picture of one here:
>
> http://smallloadsdelivered.com/MyKR1PhotoAlbum.htm
>
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Re: KR> KR-1B ?

[Kayak via KRnet]

See a picture of one here:

http://smallloadsdelivered.com/MyKR1PhotoAlbum.htm

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Re: KR> KR-1B ?

[Kayak via KRnet]

NVAERO sells the plans for the KR1B wings...

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Re: KR> KR-1B ?

[Kayak via KRnet]

I was planning on building one of these 25 years ago and fly around
the world like Colin. The reason was great MPG and huge potential fuel
capacity.  My first email address starts with KR!B as a matter of
fact.

As to using it as a no medical motor glider, I am not sure that it
meets all the requirements, and I think I even brought that topic up
on here a while back.
On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 9:07 PM Ppaulvsk via KRnet  wrote:
>
> I sent an email to my DAR and he responded with a question.  I've never heard 
> of a KR 1 B does anyone have some info on.
> My DAR wrote:   Good to hear you are still working on the KR2.  A quick KR 
> question
> for you if I may.  I have glider experience, CFIG, etc. and would like to
> operate a motor glider out of our airstrip.  The only thing within price
> range might be a KR-1B Ken Rand motorglider...  Have you ever seen one or
> heard of one?  There have been a few constructed years ago but I have not
> seen one but only photos.  Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Paul ViskBelleville Il.618-406-4705
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Re: KR> KR-1B ?

[Jeff Scott via KRnet]

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Re: KR> KR-1B ?

[Jeff Scott via KRnet]

 
 

Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2018 at 7:44 PM
From: "Ppaulvsk via KRnet" 
To: KRnet 
Cc: Ppaulvsk 
Subject: KR> KR-1B ?
I sent an email to my DAR and he responded with a question.  I've never heard 
of a KR 1 B does anyone have some info on.
My DAR wrote:   Good to hear you are still working on the KR2.  A quick KR 
question
for you if I may.  I have glider experience, CFIG, etc. and would like to
operate a motor glider out of our airstrip.  The only thing within price
range might be a KR-1B Ken Rand motorglider...  Have you ever seen one or
heard of one?  There have been a few constructed years ago but I have not
seen one but only photos.  Any help would be appreciated.

Paul ViskBelleville Il.618-406-4705
---

There have been a few KR-1B's built.  They are essentially a KR-1 with a very 
long wing to make them a motor glider.  At the time, this was done so those 
that could not maintain a third class medical could fly a motorglider without a 
physical. (Light Sport did not exist in those days.)  I don't recall anymore 
whether it required an endorsement on top of a glider license, or if simply 
having a glider license was sufficient.  One could build a KR-1 and build a 
second set of wings to make it convertible back and forth between a KR-2 and a 
KR-1B.

-Jeff Scott

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