Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-27 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/23/2009 11:21 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: That said, you are still incorrect. With what I proposed, the model will run as an in-kernel vbus device, and no longer run in userspace. It would therefore improve virtio-net as I stated, much in the same way vhost-net or venet-tap do today.

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-27 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/24/2009 11:31 AM, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/23/09 3:36 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/23/2009 06:44 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: - Are a pure software concept By design. In fact, I would describe it as software to software optimized as opposed to trying to

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-27 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/24/2009 11:36 AM, Gregory Haskins wrote: As a twist on this, the VMware paravirt driver interface is so hardware-like that they're getting hardware vendors to supply cards that implement it. Try that with a pure software approach. Any hardware engineer (myself included) will tell

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-27 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/27/09 4:15 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/23/2009 11:21 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: That said, you are still incorrect. With what I proposed, the model will run as an in-kernel vbus device, and no longer run in userspace. It would therefore improve virtio-net as I stated, much in the same

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-27 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/27/2009 03:18 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/27/09 4:15 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/23/2009 11:21 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: That said, you are still incorrect. With what I proposed, the model will run as an in-kernel vbus device, and no longer run in userspace. It would

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-27 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/27/09 4:33 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/24/2009 11:36 AM, Gregory Haskins wrote: As a twist on this, the VMware paravirt driver interface is so hardware-like that they're getting hardware vendors to supply cards that implement it. Try that with a pure software approach. Any

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-27 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/27/09 8:27 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/27/2009 03:18 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/27/09 4:15 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/23/2009 11:21 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: That said, you are still incorrect. With what I proposed, the model will run as an in-kernel vbus device, and

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-27 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/27/2009 03:34 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/27/09 4:33 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/24/2009 11:36 AM, Gregory Haskins wrote: As a twist on this, the VMware paravirt driver interface is so hardware-like that they're getting hardware vendors to supply cards that implement it.

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-27 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/27/2009 03:39 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: No, where we are is at the point where we demonstrate that your original statement that I did nothing to improve virtio was wrong. I stand by it. virtio + your patch does nothing without a ton more work (more or less equivalent to

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-27 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/27/09 8:49 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/27/2009 03:34 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/27/09 4:33 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/24/2009 11:36 AM, Gregory Haskins wrote: As a twist on this, the VMware paravirt driver interface is so hardware-like that they're getting hardware

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-27 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/27/09 8:49 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/27/2009 03:39 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: No, where we are is at the point where we demonstrate that your original statement that I did nothing to improve virtio was wrong. I stand by it. virtio + your patch does nothing without a ton more

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-24 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/23/09 3:36 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/23/2009 06:44 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: - Are a pure software concept By design. In fact, I would describe it as software to software optimized as opposed to trying to shoehorn into something that was designed as a software-to-hardware

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-24 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/23/09 4:01 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/23/2009 10:36 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/23/2009 06:44 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: - Are a pure software concept By design. In fact, I would describe it as software to software optimized as opposed to trying to shoehorn into something that was

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-24 Thread Michael S. Tsirkin
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 11:28:08AM -0800, Ira W. Snyder wrote: On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 12:34:44PM -0500, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/23/09 1:15 AM, Kyle Moffett wrote: On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:36, Gregory Haskins gregory.hask...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/22/09 2:57 AM, Ingo Molnar

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-24 Thread Anthony Liguori
On 12/23/2009 10:52 PM, Kyle Moffett wrote: On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 17:58, Anthony Liguorianth...@codemonkey.ws wrote: Of course, the key feature of virtio is that it makes it possible for you to create your own enumeration mechanism if you're so inclined. See... the thing is... a lot of us

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-24 Thread Anthony Liguori
On 12/23/2009 05:42 PM, Ira W. Snyder wrote: I've got a single PCI Host (master) with ~20 PCI slots. Physically, it is a backplane in a cPCI chassis, but the form factor is irrelevant. It is regular PCI from a software perspective. Into this backplane, I plug up to 20 PCI Agents (slaves). They

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-24 Thread Roland Dreier
This is Linux virtualization, where _both_ the host and the guest source code is fully known, and bugs (if any) can be found with a high degree of It may sound strange but Windows is very popular guest and last I checked my HW there was no Windows sources there, but the answer to

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-24 Thread Ira W. Snyder
On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:09:39AM -0600, Anthony Liguori wrote: On 12/23/2009 05:42 PM, Ira W. Snyder wrote: I've got a single PCI Host (master) with ~20 PCI slots. Physically, it is a backplane in a cPCI chassis, but the form factor is irrelevant. It is regular PCI from a software

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Andi Kleen
i.e. it has all the makings of a stupid, avoidable, permanent fork. The thing Nearly. There was no equivalent of a kernel based virtual driver host before. - Are a pure software concept and any compatibility mismatch is self-inflicted. The patches

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/23/2009 12:13 PM, Andi Kleen wrote: i.e. it has all the makings of a stupid, avoidable, permanent fork. The thing Nearly. There was no equivalent of a kernel based virtual driver host before. These are guest drivers. We have virtio drivers, and Xen drivers (which are

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Andi Kleen
http://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/summit/cwright_11_open_source_virt.pdf See slide 32. This is without vhost-net. Thanks. Do you also have latency numbers? It seems like there's definitely still potential for improvement with messages 4K. But for the large messages they indeed look rather good.

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/23/2009 02:14 PM, Andi Kleen wrote: http://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/summit/cwright_11_open_source_virt.pdf See slide 32. This is without vhost-net. Thanks. Do you also have latency numbers? No. Copying Chris. This was with the tx mitigation timer disabled, so you won't see

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
On Wednesday 23 December 2009 07:51:29 am Ingo Molnar wrote: * Anthony Liguori anth...@codemonkey.ws wrote: On 12/22/2009 10:01 AM, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: new e1000 driver is more superior in architecture and do the required work to make the new e1000 driver a full replacement

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/23/2009 03:07 PM, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: That is a very different situation from the AlacrityVM patches, which: - Are a pure software concept and any compatibility mismatch is self-inflicted. The patches are in fact breaking the ABI to KVM intentionally (for better

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
On Wednesday 23 December 2009 02:31:11 pm Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/23/2009 03:07 PM, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: That is a very different situation from the AlacrityVM patches, which: - Are a pure software concept and any compatibility mismatch is self-inflicted. The patches

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/23/2009 04:08 PM, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: The device model is exposed to the guest. If you change it, the guest breaks. Huh? Shouldn't non-vbus aware guests continue to work just fine? Sure. But we aren't merging this code in order not to use it. If we switch

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Anthony Liguori
On 12/23/2009 12:15 AM, Kyle Moffett wrote: This is actually something that is of particular interest to me. I have a few prototype boards right now with programmable PCI-E host/device links on them; one of my long-term plans is to finagle vbus into providing multiple virtual devices across

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Anthony Liguori
On 12/22/2009 06:02 PM, Chris Wright wrote: * Anthony Liguori (anth...@codemonkey.ws) wrote: The virtio-net setup probably made extensive use of pinning and other tricks to make things faster than a normal user would see them. It ends up creating a perfect combination of batching which is

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/23/09 1:51 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote: * Anthony Liguori anth...@codemonkey.ws wrote: On 12/22/2009 10:01 AM, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: new e1000 driver is more superior in architecture and do the required work to make the new e1000 driver a full replacement for the old one.

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Chris Wright
* Avi Kivity (a...@redhat.com) wrote: On 12/23/2009 02:14 PM, Andi Kleen wrote: http://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/summit/cwright_11_open_source_virt.pdf See slide 32. This is without vhost-net. Thanks. Do you also have latency numbers? No. Copying Chris. This was with the tx mitigation timer

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Andi Kleen
And its moot, anyway, as I have already retracted my one outstanding pull request based on Linus' observation. So at this time, I am not advocating _anything_ for upstream inclusion. And I am contemplating _never_ doing so again. It's not worth _this_. That certainly sounds like the wrong

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/23/09 12:10 PM, Andi Kleen wrote: And its moot, anyway, as I have already retracted my one outstanding pull request based on Linus' observation. So at this time, I am not advocating _anything_ for upstream inclusion. And I am contemplating _never_ doing so again. It's not worth

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Andi Kleen
It seems like there's definitely still potential for improvement with messages4K. But for the large messages they indeed look rather good. You are misreading the graph. At 4K it is tracking bare metal (the green and yellow lines are bare metal, the red and blue bars are virtio). At 4k

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Linus Torvalds
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009, Gregory Haskins wrote: And upstream submission is not always like this! I would think the process would come to a grinding halt if it were ;) Well, in all honesty, if it had been non-virtualized drivers I would just have pulled. The pull request all looked sane,

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/23/09 1:15 AM, Kyle Moffett wrote: On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:36, Gregory Haskins gregory.hask...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/22/09 2:57 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote: * Gregory Haskins gregory.hask...@gmail.com wrote: Actually, these patches have nothing to do with the KVM folks. [...] That claim

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Peter W. Morreale
On Wed, 2009-12-23 at 13:14 +0100, Andi Kleen wrote: http://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/summit/cwright_11_open_source_virt.pdf See slide 32. This is without vhost-net. Thanks. Do you also have latency numbers? It seems like there's definitely still potential for improvement with messages

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/23/09 5:22 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: There was no attempt by Gregory to improve virtio-net. If you truly do not understand why your statement is utterly wrong at this point in the discussion, I feel sorry for you. If you are trying to be purposely disingenuous, you should be ashamed of

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/23/09 12:52 PM, Peter W. Morreale wrote: On Wed, 2009-12-23 at 13:14 +0100, Andi Kleen wrote: http://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/summit/cwright_11_open_source_virt.pdf See slide 32. This is without vhost-net. Thanks. Do you also have latency numbers? It seems like there's definitely still

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Chris Wright
* Peter W. Morreale (pmorre...@novell.com) wrote: On Wed, 2009-12-23 at 13:14 +0100, Andi Kleen wrote: http://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/summit/cwright_11_open_source_virt.pdf See slide 32. This is without vhost-net. Thanks. Do you also have latency numbers? It seems like there's

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Chris Wright
* Anthony Liguori (anth...@codemonkey.ws) wrote: The poor packet latency of virtio-net is a result of the fact that we do software timer based TX mitigation. We do this such that we can decrease the number of exits per-packet and increase throughput. We set a timer for 250ms and

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Ingo Molnar
* Andi Kleen a...@firstfloor.org wrote: - Are a pure software concept and any compatibility mismatch is self-inflicted. The patches are in fact breaking the ABI to KVM In practice, especially

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Andi Kleen
Ingo Molnar mi...@elte.hu writes: Yes, there's (obviously) compatibility requirements and artifacts and past mistakes (as with any software interface), but you need to admit it to Yes that's exactly what I meant. yourself that your virtualization is sloppy just like hardware claim is

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Ira W. Snyder
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 12:34:44PM -0500, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/23/09 1:15 AM, Kyle Moffett wrote: On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:36, Gregory Haskins gregory.hask...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/22/09 2:57 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote: * Gregory Haskins gregory.hask...@gmail.com wrote: Actually,

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Andi Kleen
Ira W. Snyder i...@ovro.caltech.edu writes: (You'll quickly find that you must use DMA to transfer data across PCI. AFAIK, CPU's cannot do burst accesses to the PCI bus. I get a 10+ times AFAIK that's what write-combining on x86 does. DMA has other advantages of course. -Andi --

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Ira W. Snyder
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 09:09:21AM -0600, Anthony Liguori wrote: On 12/23/2009 12:15 AM, Kyle Moffett wrote: This is actually something that is of particular interest to me. I have a few prototype boards right now with programmable PCI-E host/device links on them; one of my long-term plans

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/23/2009 08:15 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/23/09 5:22 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: There was no attempt by Gregory to improve virtio-net. If you truly do not understand why your statement is utterly wrong at this point in the discussion, I feel sorry for you. If you are trying

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/23/2009 09:27 PM, Andi Kleen wrote: Ingo Molnarmi...@elte.hu writes: Yes, there's (obviously) compatibility requirements and artifacts and past mistakes (as with any software interface), but you need to admit it to Yes that's exactly what I meant. And we do make plenty

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/23/2009 06:44 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: - Are a pure software concept By design. In fact, I would describe it as software to software optimized as opposed to trying to shoehorn into something that was designed as a software-to-hardware interface (and therefore has assumptions

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/23/2009 10:36 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/23/2009 06:44 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: - Are a pure software concept By design. In fact, I would describe it as software to software optimized as opposed to trying to shoehorn into something that was designed as a software-to-hardware

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Gregory Haskins
(Sorry for top post...on a mobile) When someone repeatedly makes a claim you believe to be wrong and you correct them, you start to wonder if that person has a less than honorable agenda. In any case, I overreacted. For that, I apologize. That said, you are still incorrect. With what I

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Anthony Liguori
On 12/23/2009 01:54 PM, Ira W. Snyder wrote: On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 09:09:21AM -0600, Anthony Liguori wrote: I didn't know you were interested in this as well. See my later reply to Kyle for a lot of code that I've written with this in mind. BTW, in the future, please CC me or CC

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Anthony Liguori
On 12/23/2009 11:29 AM, Linus Torvalds wrote: On Wed, 23 Dec 2009, Gregory Haskins wrote: And upstream submission is not always like this! I would think the process would come to a grinding halt if it were ;) Well, in all honesty, if it had been non-virtualized drivers I would just have

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Ira W. Snyder
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 04:58:37PM -0600, Anthony Liguori wrote: On 12/23/2009 01:54 PM, Ira W. Snyder wrote: On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 09:09:21AM -0600, Anthony Liguori wrote: I didn't know you were interested in this as well. See my later reply to Kyle for a lot of code that I've written

Re: [Alacrityvm-devel] [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Kyle Moffett
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 17:58, Anthony Liguori anth...@codemonkey.ws wrote: On 12/23/2009 01:54 PM, Ira W. Snyder wrote: On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 09:09:21AM -0600, Anthony Liguori wrote: But both virtio-lguest and virtio-s390 use in-band enumeration and discovery since they do not have support

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-23 Thread Gleb Natapov
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 07:51:50PM +0100, Ingo Molnar wrote: * Andi Kleen a...@firstfloor.org wrote: - Are a pure software concept and any compatibility mismatch is self-inflicted. The patches are in fact breaking the ABI to KVM

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
On Tuesday 22 December 2009 04:31:32 pm Anthony Liguori wrote: I think the comparison would be if someone submitted a second e1000 driver that happened to do better on one netperf test than the current e1000 driver. You can argue, hey, choice is good, let's let a user choose if they want

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/22/2009 06:21 PM, Andi Kleen wrote: So far, the only actual technical advantage I've seen is that vbus avoids EOI exits. The technical advantage is that it's significantly faster today. Maybe your proposed alternative is as fast, or maybe it's not. Who knows? We're working on

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/22/2009 07:36 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: Gregory, it would be nice if you worked _much_ harder with the KVM folks before giving up. I think the 5+ months that I politely tried to convince the KVM folks that this was a good idea was pretty generous of my employer. The KVM

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/22/09 1:53 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/22/2009 07:36 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: Gregory, it would be nice if you worked _much_ harder with the KVM folks before giving up. I think the 5+ months that I politely tried to convince the KVM folks that this was a good idea was pretty

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/22/09 1:53 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: I asked why the irqfd/ioeventfd mechanisms are insufficient, and you did not reply. BTW: the ioeventfd issue just fell through the cracks, so sorry about that. Note that I have no specific issue with irqfd ever since the lockless IRQ injection code was

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/22/2009 09:15 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/22/09 1:53 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: I asked why the irqfd/ioeventfd mechanisms are insufficient, and you did not reply. BTW: the ioeventfd issue just fell through the cracks, so sorry about that. Note that I have no specific issue

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/22/09 2:32 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/22/09 2:25 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: If you're not doing something pretty minor, you're better of waking up a thread (perhaps _sync if you want to keep on the same cpu). With the new user return notifier thingie, that's pretty cheap. We have

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/22/09 2:38 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/22/2009 09:32 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: xinterface, as it turns out, is a great KVM interface for me and easy to extend, all without conflicting with the changes in upstream. The old way was via the kvm ioctl interface, but that sucked as the ABI

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/22/2009 09:32 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: Besides, Davide has already expressed dissatisfaction with the KVM-isms creeping into eventfd, so its not likely to ever be accepted regardless of your own disposition. Why don't you duplicate eventfd, then, should be easier than duplicating

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/22/2009 09:41 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: It means that kvm locking suddenly affects more of the kernel. Thats ok. This would only be w.r.t. devices that are bound to the KVM instance anyway, so they better know what they are doing (and they do). It's okay to the author of

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/22/09 2:43 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/22/2009 09:41 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: It means that kvm locking suddenly affects more of the kernel. Thats ok. This would only be w.r.t. devices that are bound to the KVM instance anyway, so they better know what they are doing (and

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/22/09 2:39 PM, Davide Libenzi wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/22/09 1:53 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: I asked why the irqfd/ioeventfd mechanisms are insufficient, and you did not reply. BTW: the ioeventfd issue just fell through the cracks, so sorry about that.

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/21/09 7:12 PM, Anthony Liguori wrote: On 12/21/2009 11:44 AM, Gregory Haskins wrote: Well, surely something like SR-IOV is moving in that direction, no? Not really, but that's a different discussion. Ok, but my general point still stands. At some level, some crafty hardware

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Anthony Liguori
On 12/22/2009 11:33 AM, Andi Kleen wrote: We're not talking about vaporware. vhost-net exists. Is it as fast as the alacrityvm setup then e.g. for network traffic? Last I heard the first could do wirespeed 10Gbit/s on standard hardware. I'm very wary of any such claims. As far as

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Davide Libenzi
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/22/09 2:39 PM, Davide Libenzi wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Gregory Haskins wrote: On 12/22/09 1:53 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: I asked why the irqfd/ioeventfd mechanisms are insufficient, and you did not reply. BTW: the ioeventfd issue

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Kyle Moffett
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:36, Gregory Haskins gregory.hask...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/22/09 2:57 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote: * Gregory Haskins gregory.hask...@gmail.com wrote: Actually, these patches have nothing to do with the KVM folks. [...] That claim is curious to me - the AlacrityVM host

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-22 Thread Ingo Molnar
* Anthony Liguori anth...@codemonkey.ws wrote: On 12/22/2009 10:01 AM, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: new e1000 driver is more superior in architecture and do the required work to make the new e1000 driver a full replacement for the old one. Right, like everyone actually does things this

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/18/09 4:51 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote: * Gregory Haskins gregory.hask...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Linus, Please pull AlacrityVM guest support for 2.6.33 from: git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/ghaskins/alacrityvm/linux-2.6.git for-linus All of these patches have stewed in

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/21/2009 05:34 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: I think it would be fair to point out that these patches have been objected to by the KVM folks quite extensively, Actually, these patches have nothing to do with the KVM folks. You are perhaps confusing this with the hypervisor-side

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/21/09 10:43 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/21/2009 05:34 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: I think it would be fair to point out that these patches have been objected to by the KVM folks quite extensively, Actually, these patches have nothing to do with the KVM folks. You are perhaps

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Anthony Liguori
On 12/21/2009 10:04 AM, Gregory Haskins wrote: No, B and C definitely are, but A is lacking. And the performance suffers as a result in my testing (vhost-net still throws a ton of exits as its limited by virtio-pci and only adds about 1Gb/s to virtio-u, far behind venet even with things like

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/21/2009 06:37 PM, Anthony Liguori wrote: Since virtio-pci supports MSI-X, there should be no IO exits on host-guest notification other than EOI in the virtual APIC. This is a light weight exit today and will likely disappear entirely with newer hardware. I'm working on disappearing

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/21/09 11:37 AM, Anthony Liguori wrote: On 12/21/2009 10:04 AM, Gregory Haskins wrote: No, B and C definitely are, but A is lacking. And the performance suffers as a result in my testing (vhost-net still throws a ton of exits as its limited by virtio-pci and only adds about 1Gb/s to

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/21/09 11:40 AM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/21/2009 06:37 PM, Anthony Liguori wrote: Since virtio-pci supports MSI-X, there should be no IO exits on host-guest notification other than EOI in the virtual APIC. This is a light weight exit today and will likely disappear entirely with newer

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Avi Kivity
On 12/21/2009 06:56 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: I'm working on disappearing EOI exits on older hardware as well. Same idea as the old TPR patching, without most of the magic. While I applaud any engineering effort that results in more optimal execution, if you are talking about what we

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Anthony Liguori
On 12/21/2009 10:46 AM, Gregory Haskins wrote: The very best you can hope to achieve is 1:1 EOI per signal (though today virtio-pci is even worse than that). As I indicated above, I can eliminate more than 50% of even the EOIs in trivial examples, and even more as we scale up the number of

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/21/09 12:05 PM, Avi Kivity wrote: On 12/21/2009 06:56 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote: I'm working on disappearing EOI exits on older hardware as well. Same idea as the old TPR patching, without most of the magic. While I applaud any engineering effort that results in more optimal

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Gregory Haskins
On 12/21/09 12:20 PM, Anthony Liguori wrote: On 12/21/2009 10:46 AM, Gregory Haskins wrote: The very best you can hope to achieve is 1:1 EOI per signal (though today virtio-pci is even worse than that). As I indicated above, I can eliminate more than 50% of even the EOIs in trivial examples,

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Anthony Liguori
On 12/21/2009 11:44 AM, Gregory Haskins wrote: Well, surely something like SR-IOV is moving in that direction, no? Not really, but that's a different discussion. But let's focus on concrete data. For a given workload, how many exits do you see due to EOI? Its of course highly

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-21 Thread Ingo Molnar
* Gregory Haskins gregory.hask...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/18/09 4:51 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote: * Gregory Haskins gregory.hask...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Linus, Please pull AlacrityVM guest support for 2.6.33 from:

Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33

2009-12-18 Thread Ingo Molnar
* Gregory Haskins gregory.hask...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Linus, Please pull AlacrityVM guest support for 2.6.33 from: git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/ghaskins/alacrityvm/linux-2.6.git for-linus All of these patches have stewed in linux-next for quite a while now: Gregory