Re: [lace] [Lace] Return to class

[Adele Shaak]

There was an article in The Lancet (July 3rd)
https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473-3099(20)30561-2.pdf


Talks about how why the danger of surface transmission is less than was
originally thought.

Adele
West Vancouver, BC
west coast of Canada

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Re: [lace] Re: [Lace] Return to class

[Kathryn Draves]

Jane,

Having the teacher wear one pair of gloves and move from pillow to pillow
could theoretically transmit a virus from one student to the next. If the
teacher puts on a new pair of gloves each time she approaches another
pillow it would be fine. Bear in mind that medical professionals advocate
hand washing between pairs and that care must be taken in removing gloves
so that one doesn't touch the outer surface of the glove with the hands.
Properly worn masks are your most important articles.

Kathy Draves
My two cents as a retired radiologist

On Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 4:40 PM Joy Beeson  wrote:

> On 8/15/2020 7:31 AM, Jane wrote:
>
> > But I wonder if it maybe better for the teacher to
> > use close fitting disposable gloves. Would it be
> > okay to go from pillow to pillow with these? (I'm
> > wondering out loud).
>
> That ever-popular citation "I read somewhere" that for
> disease prevention gloves are worse than useless, and
> lead to spreading germs around.
>
> On the other hand, a woman who mans a vendor's booth
> said that she wears gloves so that she can wash her
> hands after each customer without washing her skin off.
>
> I do know (i.e. I've read a *lot* of somewheres) that
> hand sanitizer is a stopgap for when you can't wash
> properly.  (But it's better than just wetting your
> hands and wiping them on a dirty towel.)
>
> --
> Joy Beeson
> http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
> west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, U.S.A.
>
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Re: [lace] Re: [Lace] Return to class

[Joy Beeson]

On 8/15/2020 7:31 AM, Jane wrote:


But I wonder if it maybe better for the teacher to
use close fitting disposable gloves. Would it be
okay to go from pillow to pillow with these? (I'm
wondering out loud).


That ever-popular citation "I read somewhere" that for 
disease prevention gloves are worse than useless, and 
lead to spreading germs around.


On the other hand, a woman who mans a vendor's booth 
said that she wears gloves so that she can wash her 
hands after each customer without washing her skin off.


I do know (i.e. I've read a *lot* of somewheres) that 
hand sanitizer is a stopgap for when you can't wash 
properly.  (But it's better than just wetting your 
hands and wiping them on a dirty towel.)


--
Joy Beeson
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, U.S.A.

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Re: [lace] Return to class

[ewaberhays]

Hello Rosemary,Regarding your question on classes, I am a lacemaker during the 
rare occasions when I actually have some free time! But in my day to day life I 
was a clinical microbiologist for 35 years before getting my certification in 
the field of infection prevention and control. As you can imagine, our 
profession has been completely immersed in the whole COVID-19 issue and the 
most effective ways to prevent the spread of the virus for hospitals, nursing 
homes, congregate living centers, as well as the average person living at home 
and trying to get on with their lives. It has been quite a ride! I thought I 
would offer my two cents to the discussion regarding lace classes. I would not 
risk damaging the bobbins, pillow, or lace by trying to disinfect. What I would 
recommend is class members sit at least 6 feet away from each other and mask. 
Each lacemaker should have hand sanitizer available. If an instructor needs to 
touch your pins or bobbins, they should sanitize their!
  hands first. Correctly sanitized hands will not deposit the virus on 
surfaces. When I was 12 years old and my grandmother taught me to tat, she 
strongly emphasized cleaning your hands before tatting, and frequently during 
tatting if spending more than 30 minutes at it. That helped to keep the lace 
clean since it was constantly being handled. When I learned to hand quilt, I 
received the same instruction-- always clean hands before starting and 
frequently during the process to keep the thread and fabric clean and free from 
sweat and skin oils. So even before COVID, clean hands for lacemaking was a 
thing! You should sanitize your hands before starting, anyone who touches your 
belongings should sanitize first, and as with anything, clean your hands when 
you are done!In order for masks to work, people need to mask appropriately and 
completely. That means BOTH nose and mouth must be completely covered. Do not 
touch the mask while wearing it, or if you have to, then clean your h!
 ands afterwards. Remember that wearing a mask below your nose does abs
olutely nothing. If that is how you plan to wear it, you might as well just 
take it off. By the same token, if you want the hand sanitizer to work it must 
be used correctly. I can't tell you the amount of sanitizer I have seen 
completely wasted because it wasn't used correctly so it was ineffective. Use 
about a quarter-sized dollop of alcohol sanitizer in the palm of your hand. 
Briskly rub it on the ENTIRE SURFACE of both hands. That means front, back, 
between fingers, thumbs, finger tips, and wrists. Every bit of the skin of both 
hands should be wet. Continue rubbing the entire surface of the front and back 
of both hands until they are dry. Do NOT blot away excess with a tissue. Rub 
till they're dry. It should take 20-30 seconds. If they dry sooner, you 
probably haven't used enough of the product. If it takes longer, chances are 
you haven't spread it around sufficiently.Lastly, no one should come if they 
are symptomatic. Even if they are sure it is just allergies or just a!
  cold, symotoms= stay home. As far as gloves, we strongly discourage the use 
of gloves unless you anticipate coming in contact with highly contaminated 
objects or liquids. So healthcare personnel wear gloves in specific instances 
while providing care for patients, but outside of that, gloves tend to do more 
harm than good.  Study after study show that people wearing gloves have a 
false sense of security and end up with far higher levels of contamination on 
their clothing, belongings, and skin than people who just clean their hands 
after touching a potentially contaminated surface. Gloves become increasingly 
permeable when they get wet-- and that includes the moisture from your hands 
sweating inside the glove. So unless you are going to be exposed to blood or 
are providing wound care or some such thing, frequent hand sanitizing is far 
preferable to gloving.So if you communicated that everyone would need to 
djstance appropriately, wear a mask correctly for the entire time t!
 hey were in class, made sure everyone knew not to come if they had sym
ptoms, and had everyone hand sanituze upon entry and before touching anything 
belonging to another, you should be able to have a class. Most people know all 
this anyway, they just may need reminders about how to wear the mask and hand 
sanitize correctly. Hope that helps!Elise in Maine--  CIC, M(ASCP)Sent from 
my  U.S.Cellular© Smartphone
 Original message From: "N.A. Neff"  
Date: 8/14/20  5:17 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Rosemary , 
Arachne  Subject: Re: [lace] Return to class Hi Rosemary,I am 
not a teacher but I've kept up on some of the relative risks, and 
theeffectiveness of some mitigation steps, and perhaps can offer a 
fewsuggestions.Transmission via touching surfaces appears to be very rare for 
this virus.If two things were done, everybody could handle everybody else's 
bobbinswith very clo

[lace] Re: [Lace] Return to class

[Jane]

Nancy, thank you so much for these tips. I'm likely to have a workshop 
in the next couple of months and have been wondering how to handle it.


I agree with ventilation, also as much spacing between students as possible.

I think trying to sterilise bobbins a non-starter. Not only because of 
the risk to the bobbins, but maybe marking the thread or pillow.
I thought of using hand sanitiser after touching any pillow (both 
teacher and student). But I wonder if it maybe better for the teacher to 
use close fitting disposable gloves. Would it be okay to go from pillow 
to pillow with these? (I'm wondering out loud).


Adele, I must say I'm pleased to hear that transmission from surfaces 
might be less than thought. I've not heard that anywhere else.


I think 'track and trace' is important, ie, having students let you know 
if they fall sick and being able to pass on the info to the others of 
the class.


Thank you, Rosemary, for raising the question. Will be interested to 
read any further comments.


Best wishes,
Jane
In the New Forest where the weather has gone from scorching to drizzling

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Fwd: [lace] Return to class

[Devon Thein]

>> Putting in my bid for Zoom. With a second camera in the form of an iPhone 
>> suspended over the pillow you would be amazed. I just took a class with 
>> Veronika Irvine over Zoom. I think it is 95% as good as in person. But the 
>> savings in terms of no airplane flights or hotels more than compensate for 
>> the missing 5%. Do you find yourself lacking in an obscure tool you didn’t 
>> anticipate? No problem, run into your work room to find it. Are you pining 
>> for your favorite beverage. No issue, go to the kitchen. Do you hanker to 
>> meet the vanishingly few lacemakers on earth who are interested in 
>> mathematical art? They are present although in the US, Europe, or Australia. 
>> A new opportunity to make international friends. I think it is great! 
>> Devon
>> PS. Sign up for Zero-waste through Bobbin Lace, tomorrow Aug. 15,  3 pm 
>> Eastern Daylight Time, or see it live streamed or recorded on the 
>> International Organization of Lace’s Facebook page. Details on the IOLI’s 
>> Facebook page. 

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Re: [lace] Return to class

[Devon Thein]

Putting in my bid for Zoom. With a second camera in the form of an iPhone 
suspended over the pillow you would be amazed. I just took a class with 
Veronika Irvine over Zoom. I think it is 95% as good as in person. But the 
savings in terms of no airplane flights or hotels more than compensate for the 
missing 5%. Do you find yourself lacking in an obscure tool you didn’t 
anticipate? No problem, run into your work room to find it. Are you pining for 
your favorite beverage. No issue, go to the kitchen. Do you hanker to meet the 
vanishingly few lacemakers on earth who are interested in mathematical art? 
They are present although in the US, Europe, or Australia. A new opportunity to 
make international friends. I think it is great! 
Devon
PS. Sign up for Zero-waste through Bobbin Lace, tomorrow Aug. 15,  3 pm Eastern 
Daylight Time, or see it live streamed or recorded on the International 
Organization of Lace’s Facebook page. Details on the IOLI’s Facebook page. 

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Re: [lace] Return to class

[Devon Thein]

> Putting in my bid for Zoom. With a second camera in the form of an
> iPhone suspended over the pillow you would be amazed. I just took a class
> with Veronika Irvine over Zoom. I think it is 95% as good as in person. But
> the savings in terms of no airplane flights or hotels more than compensate
> for the missing 5%. Do you find yourself lacking in an obscure tool you
> didn’t anticipate? No problem, run into your work room to find it. Are
you
> pining for your favorite beverage. No issue, go to the kitchen. Do you
> hanker to meet the vanishingly few lacemakers on earth who are interested
> in mathematical art? They are present although in the US, Europe, or
> Australia. A new opportunity to make international friends. I think it is
> great!
> Devon
> PS. Sign up for Zero-waste through Bobbin Lace, tomorrow Aug. 15,  3 pm
> Eastern Daylight Time, or see it live streamed or recorded on the
> International Organization of Lace’s Facebook page. Details on the
IOLI’s
> Facebook page.
>
>

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Re: [lace] Return to class

[lynrbailey]

How about a pair of gloves, nitrile, rubber, disposable, by each student, for 
the teacher's use.  No problem with bobbin finishes, and not really that bad 
for the teacher either, as she would be the only one using the gloves.  No 
cross contamination.  Teachers don't actually take over the pillow that often, 
so this wouldn't be too much of problem.  I have cheap bobbins, but I don't 
want them injured either.  I think this would work. And masks of course, and 
good ventilation if possible, including outdoor classes.   

Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, where it is typical August weather.  I'm 
getting a lot of lace done, but I miss classes, other lacemakers. And going to 
lunch...vacation in Maine... Shopping in the mall...


"My email sends out an automatic  message. Arachne members,
please ignore it. I read your emails."


I did a quick Google and found some dispiriting info:
>"You can, however, use denatured alcohol to remove latex, lacquer, shellac and
>polyurethane finishes”
>and
>"Most polys [polyurethanes finishes] are somewhat resistant to alcohols
>(incidental exposure) and the finish may be unaffected if spills are cleaned
>up immediately”
>all of which suggests to me that alcohol can not be relied on to leave bobbins
>undamaged, whether they’ve been finished with polyurethane, latex paint,
>lacquer or shellac.
>
>Perhaps it would be enough to leave the bobbins alone (even the plain wooden
>ones) and rely instead on the teacher washing her hands or using hand
>sanitizer before touching each student’s bobbins.
>
>I do not know what they’re saying in other parts of the world, but our
>public health scientists are saying that the danger of the virus transferring
>from surfaces is less than originally thought.
>
>Adele
>
>> On Aug 14, 2020, at 3:10 PM, N.A. Neff  wrote:
>>
>> Useful info. Maybe recommend strongly that everyone use plain bobbins, and
>even bring an extra as a test bobbin. I think mild bleach solutions or other
>disinfectants are likely to be as rough as alcohol, don't you? What would be a
>good alternative?
>
>-

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[lace] Return to class

[Rosemary]

Dear Fellow lacemakers and teachers

I am planning  how to return to teaching my lace class.  Our venue is 
reopening in September with cleaning and social distancing regulations 
all in place. I assume we will all have to be wearing masks. I know I 
have to come up with my own risk assessment plan. So far so good but my 
experience of teaching our skill is that it is extremely hard to avoid 
close contact. Whilst the student could stand up and move away if 
necessary, I would normally be handling their bobbins quite a bit. (How 
risky is this?) And they can't see what I am doing if they are standing 
too far away.


Of course as the average age of the students in my class is over 70 
there is a chance that only a few of them will want to continue for now, 
but I'd like to give it a go.


What are your views on the feasibility of returning to normal teaching?

Another option is class by Zoom.  Have you any opinions on the success 
of this?  Again, without correcting work on the pillow, how useful is 
this tuition?  Many of my students see this (undoing of their mistakes) 
as the teacher's role (no matter how hard I try to tell them that 
practise makes perfect...)


Have any of you returned to teaching in class? Do please share your 
experiences of how Covid has changed your practices.


Rosemary Brown

Southwick, West Sussex UK

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Re: [lace] Return to class

[BETH SIGNOR]

Can confirm the effects of alcohol on a wood finish. Back in March, I filled up 
a small spray bottle with rubbing alcohol for disinfecting doorknobs, phone 
screens and what-have-you, and ended up spilling a bit on the poly-finished 
kitchen tabletop. I wiped it up immediately, but the finish was pretty badly 
pitted as a result. (Fortunately it's an old, not valuable, table and already 
battle-scarred.)

Beth

> On 08/14/2020 3:30 PM ash...@shaw.ca wrote:
> 
>  
> I did a quick Google and found some dispiriting info:
> "You can, however, use denatured alcohol to remove latex, lacquer, shellac and
> polyurethane finishes�
> and
> "Most polys [polyurethanes finishes] are somewhat resistant to alcohols
> (incidental exposure) and the finish may be unaffected if spills are cleaned
> up immediately�
> all of which suggests to me that alcohol can not be relied on to leave bobbins
> undamaged, whether they’ve been finished with polyurethane, latex paint,
> lacquer or shellac.
> 
> Perhaps it would be enough to leave the bobbins alone (even the plain wooden
> ones) and rely instead on the teacher washing her hands or using hand
> sanitizer before touching each student’s bobbins.
> 
> I do not know what they’re saying in other parts of the world, but our
> public health scientists are saying that the danger of the virus transferring
> from surfaces is less than originally thought.
> 
> Adele
> 
> > On Aug 14, 2020, at 3:10 PM, N.A. Neff  wrote:
> >
> > Useful info. Maybe recommend strongly that everyone use plain bobbins, and
> even bring an extra as a test bobbin. I think mild bleach solutions or other
> disinfectants are likely to be as rough as alcohol, don't you? What would be a
> good alternative?
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
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> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
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Re: [lace] Return to class

[N.A. Neff]

Useful info. Maybe recommend strongly that everyone use plain bobbins, and
even bring an extra as a test bobbin. I think mild bleach solutions or
other disinfectants are likely to be as rough as alcohol, don't you? What
would be a good alternative?


On Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 17:35 Adele Shaak  wrote:
... I’d worry a little bit about the alcohol treatment...

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Re: [lace] Return to class

[Adele Shaak]

Sorry, don’t know why that last bit sent. I was just trying to trim the 
message, and off it went into the ether.

Let’s try again: 

Just wondering - I have seen wiping with an alcohol-dampened cloth take foil 
straight off of book covers, so personally I’d worry a little bit about the 
alcohol treatment. I think it would depend on what the decoration was stuck on 
with and whether a cover-coat was applied. 

Adele
west coast of Canada


> and 2) after washing their hands, everyone wipe their bobbins
> at the start of class with a cloth dampened with 90% or higher isopropyl
> alcohol. (It doesn't have to be dripping nor the bobbins rubbed, so it
> won't damage any finishes )

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Re: [lace] Return to class

[N.A. Neff]

Hi Rosemary,

I am not a teacher but I've kept up on some of the relative risks, and the
effectiveness of some mitigation steps, and perhaps can offer a few
suggestions.

Transmission via touching surfaces appears to be very rare for this virus.
If two things were done, everybody could handle everybody else's bobbins
with very close to zero risk. 1) Everyone wash their hands thoroughly at
the start of class, and again after each time they touch their face or
their mask, and 2) after washing their hands, everyone wipe their bobbins
at the start of class with a cloth dampened with 90% or higher isopropyl
alcohol. (It doesn't have to be dripping nor the bobbins rubbed, so it
won't damage any finishes )

Transmission is almost entirely respiratory, either via fine droplets or
via aerosols of virus particles. The former are what fall from the air
within about 6 feet -- hence the personal distancing -- and are blocked by
properly worn masks.

The latter, however, the virus particles, don't fall out of the air, and in
crowded settings with poor ventilation can become quite concentrated,
leading to high rates of transmission. Most masks don't block these
particles. The main defense here is ventilation because one's risk of
infection is directly related to the size of the dose of virus you get. So
you need to dilute the concentration of airborne virus, or blow it away
altogether.

By far the best thing is to hold your class outside, with fans if there
isn't a gentle breeze. The next best would be inside in as big a room as
possible, with outside air coming in, and fans preventing pockets of stale
air. In those situations, if you both have masks on, it would be safe for
both a student and the teacher for one to look over the other's shoulder,
etc.

Finally, remember, all this is protection just in case you or someone in
your class is actually sick with covid. The best protection is for everyone
to agree not to come to class if they have a dry cough, trouble breathing,
or lose their sense of taste or smell. And take everyone's temperature when
they arrive for class -- no one should attend with a temp of 37.5°C or
above.

In summary, from what I've read recently, ventilation is what's really key.

I hope some of this helps. I can dig up a few articles that would cite
references if you would like them.

Nancy

Nancy A. Neff
Connecticut, USA

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 15:31 Rosemary  wrote:

>
> I am planning  how to return to teaching my lace class.
>

Have any of you returned to teaching in class? Do please share your
> experiences of how Covid has changed your practices.
>
> Rosemary Brown
>

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