RE: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

[DevonThein]

Dear Lorelei,
Thank you for all these links. Yes, those are what I would consider
Pottenkant!
The piece I am talking about has a flower pot on it. But the technique is
totally weird. It may be Pottenkant because it has a flower pot on it, but I
think there is some additional descriptor that would apply.
Devon

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RE: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

[DevonThein]

Dear Lorelei,
And I must voice my usual response that I am not at liberty to share better
photos over the internet. I will send you some privately, for study purposes
only, and not for publication.
It is not a part lace.

Devon

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RE: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

[Lorelei Halley]

Possible pottenkant:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/570620215277217370/ 

possible Bath Brussels:
http://lynxlace.com/bobbinlace18th.html#Bath-Brussels 

Go about half way down this page for several pottenkant on pink background:
http://lynxlace.com/bobbinlacepottenkantmilanese.html 

Some early Flemish, probably very very late 17th c or early 18th c:
https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/early-brussels-flemish-milanese/ 

Lorelei Halley


-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Devon Thein
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 12:04 PM
To: J-D Hammett <jdhamm...@msn.com>
Cc: Arachne reply <lace@arachne.com>
Subject: Re: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

Thanks Joepie.
I feel like Potten Kant is a larger category dealing with different laces
featuring a flower pot design. Am I wrong about this? This is a very
unusual, to me, lace. It does not have any kat stitch or point de Paris type
ground in it. Only linen and half stitch. I canb

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RE: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

[Devon Thein]

Dear Lorelei,
And I must voice my usual response that I am not at liberty to share better
photos over the internet. I will send you some privately, for study purposes
only, and not for publication.
It is not a part lace.

Devon

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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RE: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

[Lorelei Halley]

Devon
I'm afraid my usual complaint applies here, too. That is a really bad photo,
impossible to tell anything about the structure from the photo. I can't even
tell if it is a part lace or a straight lace. However, I don't think it is
pottenkant. That form does have the mirror image in the design. And most of
the photos I've seen of pottenkant show a fairly large percentage of the
surface to be taken up by a ground. And pottenkant is a straight lace.

What comes to mind as a possibility, if it is a part lace, is what Levey
calls "Bath Brussels" -- a lace made of discrete motifs, usually somewhat
loose in density, compared to Brussels lace of the early 18th century. The
design of Bath Brussels would be less taut, less well defined than in
Brussels. The date would be c 1700- c 1740 or 1750. But I can't even apply
this name to your lace because I can't even tell if it is a part lace, let
alone other structural elements. Isn't there a fragmental photo with more
clarity? (I would personally like to shoot all the museum photographers who
produce this kind of image, and all the curators who treat such photos as
acceptable. I realize I'm being a grump, here.)

Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
DevonThein
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 11:04 AM
To: Arachne reply 
Subject: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

There is a puzzling piece in our collection. It is a flower basket. The
cloth work is dense linen stitch. The background is entirely half stitch. I
KNOW that someone has told me that this is some special, recognizable form
of lace.
But, I donb

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Re: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

[N.A. Neff]

Devon,

When I read your initial post, I immediately thought pottenkant, but then I
looked at the photo...

I hesitate to argue with Joepie about Dutch lace, but first, I think
pottenkant is actually a narrow category, a Dutch lace with a crudely
stylized pot and flower, and either 5-hole or kat-stitch ground. It was
primarily a middle class to peasant lace.

The design in your piece to me looks very much like it has French
influence, and IMO is much too flowing and ornate to be pottenkant. The
density and ornateness of the design and the shallowly scalloped edge is
like late 17th C Valenciennes, but the lack of any fillings, and especially
the presence of half-stitch as ground, argue against that identification.

Perhaps these observations will contribute to someone else's thoughts. I
obviously don't actually know what it is.

Nancy
Connecticut, USA

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Devon Thein  wrote:

> Thanks Joepie.
> I feel like Potten Kant is a larger category dealing with different laces
> featuring a flower pot design



> It does not have any kat stitch or point de Paris
> type ground in it. Only linen and half stitch.
>
>
>

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Re: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

[Devon Thein]

Thanks Joepie.
I feel like Potten Kant is a larger category dealing with different laces
featuring a flower pot design. Am I wrong about this? This is a very
unusual, to me, lace. It does not have any kat stitch or point de Paris
type ground in it. Only linen and half stitch. I can’t find it in my books.
Devon



>
>

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RE: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

[J-D Hammett]

Hi fellow Arachnids,

This is likely to be “Potten kant”.  So called because it features pots of
flowers in a very densely worked lace in the Netherlands during the early
1700.

Joepie in chilly East Sussex, UK.




Subject: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

There is a puzzling piece in our collection. It is a flower basket. The cloth
work is dense linen stitch. <  >The information, which I am
supposed
to be reviewing says it is Dutch/Netherlands about 1700. I would like to
check
this. Can anyone help? Here is the link.

https://tinyurl.com/y86ojhpk

Devon

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