Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2015-10-25 00:58, Anthony Walter wrote:
> Graeme, all browsers (except opera mini) support h.264 now:

Yes and No. The difference between OGV & WebM vs H264 is that H264
requires external libraries for it to work. Especially on Linux or
FreeBSD (read the fine print... appropriate gstreamer plug-ins are
required).

On the other hand, OGV and WebM (I think) are fully baked into the
browser source code - just like JPG or GIF support. At least for Opera,
Chrome and Firefox.

Anything MPEG and H264 are patent nightmares and requires licensing. Do
some Google searching to find out more - there are tons of information,
especially for content producers (somebody making video files).


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Alexsander Rosa]

2015-10-22 13:11 GMT-02:00 Aradeonas :

>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From my 600+ KLOC project:   Total Files: 961 Average File Size: 629,3
> lines   Source: StatSVN report *
>
> How,Why?! ;)
>
>

How: coding this way since day one.
Why: IMHO it's easier to maintain.


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Alexsander Rosa]

2015-10-24 14:15 GMT-02:00 Jürgen Hestermann :

> Am 2015-10-24 um 17:50 schrieb Alexsander Rosa:
>
> 2015-10-22 13:11 GMT-02:00 Aradeonas :
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * From my 600+ KLOC project:   Total Files: 961 Average File Size: 629,3
>> lines   Source: StatSVN report *
>>
>> How,Why?! ;)
>>
>>
>
> How: coding this way since day one.
> Why: IMHO it's easier to maintain.
>
> I am currently working on a program where the main unit
> has >20k lines but never found that the length is a problem.
> Alt+G to find procedures/functions helps a lot,
> Bookmarks can be used, Ctrl+F(ind) is there too
> so I don't know why I should split the unit without need.
> Just the opposite: Spreading the code over many files/units
> makes it much harder to find something (at least it does not
> make it easier IMO).
>
>
Our largest .pas file (out of 750) has 8+ KLOC.
Ctrl+mouse click opens the external file easily.


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Jürgen Hestermann]

Am 2015-10-24 um 17:50 schrieb Alexsander Rosa:

2015-10-22 13:11 GMT-02:00 Aradeonas >:

/
From my 600+ KLOC project:
Total Files:
961
Average File Size:
629,3 lines
Source: StatSVN report
/

How,Why?! ;)


How: coding this way since day one.
Why: IMHO it's easier to maintain.


I am currently working on a program where the main unit
has >20k lines but never found that the length is a problem.
Alt+G to find procedures/functions helps a lot,
Bookmarks can be used, Ctrl+F(ind) is there too
so I don't know why I should split the unit without need.
Just the opposite: Spreading the code over many files/units
makes it much harder to find something (at least it does not
make it easier IMO).
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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2015-10-24 13:34, Anthony Walter wrote:
> How do I enable the HTML view for object inspector information box. Using a
> recent SVN trunk here and all I see is normal plain text in the info box.

Not really related to this thread, but to answer your question As
far as I know you need to install the TurboPowerIPro package into
Lazarus. This then enables HTML info box in the Object Inspector, and
enable HTML hints windows in the source code editor.


> Also work noting, what would everyone think about screen captures as mp4?
> All browsers now support the video tag, framerate and colors are usually
> better, videos can include sound.

At the time I found Animated GIF's sufficient for the task (the wiki
page), and they were very easy to create and ALL browsers (new and old)
support Animated GIF's.

I personally think the W3C really failed us all with the VIDEO tag - by
not specifying a specific codec for the HTML5 standard.

But if you must go the way of embedded videos, I would suggest a truly
open standard codec and container format. For that reason I would
recommend OGV files with Ogg Vorbis encoding for sound and Ogg Theora
encoding for video.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg

My other choice would be WebM.

Either way, definitely not MPEG anything.


Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Anthony Walter]

Graeme, all browsers (except opera mini) support h.264 now:

http://caniuse.com/#feat=mpeg4

See also OpenH264 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenH264

Regarding other video formats, Vorbis, WebM, VP8 have much less support:

http://caniuse.com/#feat=webm
http://caniuse.com/#feat=ogv
http://caniuse.com/#search=vp8
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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Aradeonas  wrote:
> Its good to have videos of professorial FPC and Lazarus developers and
> see how they work,it can be like learning channel.

There are animations of the IDE here :
 http://wiki.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since
and other commands :
 http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_IDE_Tools

A normal work flow includes lots of tinkering, scratching head, trials
and errors, "oops wrong!" moments etc.
It may be boring to watch in a video.
Somebody could make a video of all the features in a well planned way
and practice it beforehand. It would be very helpfull.

Anyway using Lazarus as it was Notepad and then running JCF is like
cutting wood with a motor-saw without starting its engine and then
wondering why it does not work very well.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Anthony Walter]

from:  http://wiki.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since

How do I enable the HTML view for object inspector information box. Using a
recent SVN trunk here and all I see is normal plain text in the info box.

Also work noting, what would everyone think about screen captures as mp4?
All browsers now support the video tag, framerate and colors are usually
better, videos can include sound.

http://cache.getlazarus.org/video/inspector.mp4

I am working on a cross platform screen recording app (depends on ffmpeg)
which will allow for both full screen and screen rectangle area capture. I
might add a save to optimized animated ".gif" option.

The way it works is you define a hotkey combo.
Then when you press the hotkey while using other program it starts
recording.
The recording area is highlighted on screen.
Then you press hotkey again and are prompted with a summary of what you
recorded and the option to:
Save to file.
Save to cloud storage (with a url copied to the clipboard).
Or to discard the recording.

I am also considering a partially automated wizard to setup free cloud
storage accounts with their choice of services between Amazon S3, Google
Cloud Storage, and Microsoft Azure file storage. All offer a of free
storage within some maximum allotted space.
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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

Its good to have videos of professorial FPC and Lazarus developers and
see how they work,it can be like learning channel.

Regards,
Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

Yes they can be good but not for showing how we can code better with
Lazarus. For obvious reason someone from you (Team members or old
Lazarus users) can make something like a showcase for Lazarus.

Regards,
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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2015-10-24 10:11, Juha Manninen wrote:
> Somebody could make a video of all the features in a well planned way
> and practice it beforehand. It would be very helpfull.

That's kind of what I wanted when I started this wiki page:
   http://wiki.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since

Animated GIF's used to visually show features with a short description.
But as the saying goes: "A picture is worth a thousand words" - just
just imagine a moving picture. ;-)

Unfortunately since then some static screenshots got added by others,
and worse, just text descriptions without images. Oh well, that's the
nature of wikis.


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2015-10-24 11:55, Aradeonas wrote:
> Yes it can very good that shows what is a good work flow with Lazarus
> but it should made by a person that know LAzarus and FPC well.

YouTube contains some very good videos - maybe not all related to FPC
and Lazarus specifically, but rather Delphi. In most cases they apply to
FPC and Lazarus too.

Maybe somebody could organise some of those videos in a YouTube play
list, or create a collection of links in a FPC wiki page.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

Yes it can very good that shows what is a good work flow with Lazarus
but it should made by a person that know LAzarus and FPC well.

Regards,
Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2015-10-21 20:45, Aradeonas wrote:
> I Just work on one of my units with about 10,000 line of code that have
> 7 class and it makes me crazy moving in it and adding procedure or

"big" is a relative term I guess. I don't consider 10,000 lines big
these days. :)

Take a look at "Procedure List" found in the Search menu, or simply use
Alt+G  (I've changed mine to Ctrl+G). This allows you to type any text,
and the list shown will be reduced to show any partial matches. Down
arrow to highlight what you want, and ENTER to go to that code. No mouse
usage is needed. You can also use the combobox to limit matches to a
specific class.

I ported this to Lazarus many years ago, because this is by far the
fastest way to find specific code in large units - at least that is my
personal experience.

Using Editor Bookmarks are also a vital tool I use to jump to different
location in a unit, or even to other units.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

> "big" is a relative term I guess. I don't consider 10,000 lines big
> these days. :)

Yea for you its just a normal unit but for someone like me writing this
code from start and managing it is kind of hard (not much,but I want
easier!) Very good point!I didnt saw that,Thank you. I tried it (And
changed the shortcut to Ctrl+G) and it is easy to use,maybe you can add
some shortcut or a tree view for moving faster between classes.

Regards, Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Aradeonas  wrote:
> Yes I do because it will be unformatted while writing.
> About codetools really I dont know what it does and I never used  it and
> I read Wiki page and didnt understand how it help code formatting.

Ok, Codetools is used for many things but I meant the settings
affecting automatic code generation. See pic.
Easily half of your code gets generated automatically when you learn
to use the IDE properly.
Now you are using it wrong.

JCF is only good for importing code from somebody using strange
indentation style or something.

Juha
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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

Thanks Juha and I checked that but still code will unformated after some
time specially tab and indent and from Delphi7 Days I always use code
formaters.Maybe its just me  

Regards,
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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

Yes I do because it will be unformatted while writing.
About codetools really I dont know what it does and I never used  it and
I read Wiki page and didnt understand how it help code formatting.

Regards,
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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Alexsander Rosa]

>From my 600+ KLOC project:

Total Files:961Average File Size:629,3 lines

Source: StatSVN report

2015-10-21 17:45 GMT-02:00 Aradeonas :

> Hi,
>
> I Just work on one of my units with about 10,000 line of code that have 7
> class and it makes me crazy moving in it and adding procedure or editing
> and sometimes I get lost that where am I. Just want to ask you how you work
> with big units? how you move,browse and edit?
>
> Regards,
> Ara
>
>
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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2015-10-22 12:34, Aradeonas wrote:
> changed the shortcut to Ctrl+G) and it is easy to use,maybe you can add
> some shortcut or a tree view for moving faster between classes.

When I wrote it, immediate typing reduced the search results (partial
matching anywhere was automatically enabled - matching at start is
optional from toolbar), up or down arrow (while edit had focus)
automatically moved the selection focus in the result list. Pressing TAB
(while edit had focus) switched to the ComboBox, where up and down
arrows can be used.

Others have modified the code (sometimes good, sometimes bad) since it
got integrated with Lazarus IDE. Some of the original functionality got
lost (no icons in result list any more, doesn't remember column widths
etc), but the above mentioned keyboard actions should still work (I hope).

Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

No shortcut and search behave badly. Doesn't search very good and for me
cant find anything good.
For now I dont know how to edit Lazarus add ones and codes (and making
patches and ... ) but it is easy to make these works. I just good at
making from scratch not updating others code (Just using :p ) .
Maybe I do that when I began to make patch for Lazarus.

Regards,
Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

> From my 600+ KLOC project:
>
> Total Files: 961 Average File Size: 629,3 lines
>
> Source: StatSVN report
How,Why?! ;)

Graeme I will send you screenshots.

Regards, Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2015-10-22 14:23, Aradeonas wrote:
> No shortcut and search behave badly. Doesn't search very good and for me
> cant find anything good.

Can you please supply a screenshot of your Procedure List dialog with
the text you entered and what the results where And very
importantly, an example of what wasn't found that you expected it too
(eg: procedure, function or method name). I'll then take a look at what
went wrong.

I use Procedure List daily, and it finds whatever I'm looking for.

NOTE:
  Procedure List only searches the current unit (what will include
  Include files used in that unit), and only searches for procedure
  names, function names or method names. Nested (local) procedures work
  too.

  If you want to find something in all units, then you need to use
  "Search -> Find in Files..."


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 8:52 AM, Aradeonas  wrote:
> Very good! But sadly for me if I use JCF when I have a folded code it will
> messed up.
> It seems there are tools that I cant use because of JCF. But code formatting
> is a lot more important for me, I can write a line without!

You use JCF for your own code while editing? It makes no sense.
Adjust the Codetools code generation settings to match your coding
style instead.

Using JCF will limit you even more if you start to use the new
language features like advanced generics, class helpers etc.
JCF's parser does not understand some of the syntax and nobody
maintains it actively.
Codetool parser on the other hand is maintained. That's why I have
created this report :
 http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=19754


Regards,
Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

> Short cut is by default Alt-
Or Ctrl+click
> There are shortcuts to fold ALL nodes at a specific level.
alt-shift-1  (or 2, 3 4 ... for level) alt-shift-0 unfold

depending on what you have configured as fold-able try alt-shift-3
(maybe 4) and you just see function headers. Very good! But sadly for me
if I use JCF when I have a folded code it will messed up. It seems there
are tools that I cant use because of JCF. But code formatting is a lot
more important for me, I can write a line without!

Regards, Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[DougC]

The best way to deal with big units is to avoid them completely.



Can you explain why you are using such a big unit if it is causing you these 
problems?




  On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:45:07 -0400 Aradeonas 
aradeo...@operamail.com wrote 




I Just work on one of my units with about 10,000 line of code that have 7 class 
and it makes me crazy moving in it and adding procedure or editing and 
sometimes I get lost that where am I. Just want to ask you how you work with 
big units? how you move,browse and edit?






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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[DougC]

I think you have taken the advice you read somewhere too seriously. You have 
taken it to an extreme that invalidates it.



Having a small number of units is not in any way disadvantageous in terms of 
efficiency from the system's viewpoint. Remember that the unit structure was 
invented to solve the very problems you are experiencing!



You do not have to split your unit based on the classes it now contains. You 
can use other rationale for the split. I have a set of units named



DateSupport

LogSupport

FileSupport

CodeListSupport

SortSupport



Makes it easy to see where the items I want to find are.




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[Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

Hi,

I Just work on one of my units with about 10,000 line of code that have
7 class and it makes me crazy moving in it and adding procedure or
editing and sometimes I get lost that where am I. Just want to ask you
how you work with big units? how you move,browse and edit?

Regards, Ara

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Philippe Lévi]

If I don't want to split it in different units I split it in "logical" parts in 
files and use {$I ...}


but with several classes .. it looks like splitting classes in different units 
should be a way to make it easier!


De: Aradeonas <aradeo...@operamail.com>
Enviado: quarta-feira, 21 de outubro de 2015 16:45
Para: lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org
Assunto: [Lazarus] Working on big units

Hi,

I Just work on one of my units with about 10,000 line of code that have 7 class 
and it makes me crazy moving in it and adding procedure or editing and 
sometimes I get lost that where am I. Just want to ask you how you work with 
big units? how you move,browse and edit?

Regards,
Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Martin Frb]

On 21/10/2015 20:53, Aradeonas wrote:
But I remember I read somewhere Its good too have minimum count of 
units and also its easier to use and also I saw many units that have 
thousands of code and its interesting that how they work on these codes?
These classes are in a subject like controls and I didnt want to have 
Edit,Label,List,Panel ... units .



Code tools (read the entire page, it is useful not just for navigation)
  http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_IDE_Tools
  Method_Jumping   and Find_Declaration

Code explorer  (try it, the description is not that good))
  http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Code_Explorer

bookmarks

folding (if that is your thing)

find next/previous occurrence of word at caret

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

But I remember I read somewhere Its good too have minimum count of units
and also its easier to use and also I saw many units that have thousands
of code and its interesting that how they work on these codes?

These classes are in a subject like controls and I didnt want to have
Edit,Label,List,Panel ... units .

Regards, Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

Thanks, Im using all of these tools except folding (I just use JCF and
it is very good at losing the point that where you was!) and still hard
to maintain, so it seems its just my problem.

Regards,
Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

> If you used "find declaration", that adds a jump point, and you can go
> back ctrl-h (I recommend you put that on a key you like) You can also
> add your own jump points. (search the menu, or keymapping)
>
> Also look at the overview gutter (next to scrollbar), it shows where
> interface and implementation are. That can be helpful. You can also
> set inactive breakpoints (ctrl click on gutter), they show in the
> overview gutter too. If you have a limited number of them they can
> help finding things.
>
> I dont know about jcf, and how well it keeps any line info (bookmarks,
> breakpoints,...)

Nice points about gutter (I know them but not about inactive
breakpoints). JCF dont mess breakpoints it just sometimes go somewhere
else you was working after it formats the code.

Regards, Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Marc Santhoff]

On Mi, 2015-10-21 at 21:02 +0100, Martin Frb wrote:

> Code tools (read the entire page, it is useful not just for navigation)
>http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_IDE_Tools
>Method_Jumping   and Find_Declaration
> 
> Code explorer  (try it, the description is not that good))
>http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Code_Explorer

+1

The most helpful key combinations are

  CTRL-SHIFT-

to jump from the interface section to the method the cursor is in

  CTRL-SHIFT-

for the inverse, jumping from inside a method implementation to the
interface section of that class

And not to forget, put the cursor inside a variable name or class name
or function name, use the right mouse key for popping up the context
menu and select

  "find declaration of ..."

as first entry.

Using those three plus the code explorer I'm happy navigating huge untis
with little irritations.

Have fun,
Marc

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Martin Frb]

On 21/10/2015 21:58, Aradeonas wrote:

Thanks, Im using all of these tools except folding (I just use JCF and
it is very good at losing the point that where you was!) and still hard
to maintain, so it seems its just my problem.

If you used "find declaration", that adds a jump point, and you can go 
back ctrl-h (I recommend you put that on a key you like)

You can also add your own jump points. (search the menu, or keymapping)

Also look at the overview gutter (next to scrollbar), it shows where 
interface and implementation are. That can be helpful.
You can also set inactive breakpoints (ctrl click on gutter), they show 
in the overview gutter too. If you have a limited number of them they 
can help finding things.


I dont know about jcf, and how well it keeps any line info (bookmarks, 
breakpoints,...)


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Marcos Douglas]

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Aradeonas  wrote:
> I Just work on one of my units with about 10,000 line of code that have 7
> class and it makes me crazy moving in it and adding procedure or editing and
> sometimes I get lost that where am I. Just want to ask you how you work with
> big units? how you move,browse and edit?

Sorry, but 7 classes with 10K lines?! There is a problem in your
design. Doesn't matter if is Pascal or another language. You need to
refactor this immediately.

How many methods have each class? IMHO is better to have the minimum
as possible. Is better to have 10 classes with one method each, than 1
classe with 10 methods.


Marcos Douglas

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:54:06 +0200
Marc Santhoff  wrote:

>[...]
> And not to forget, put the cursor inside a variable name or class name
> or function name, use the right mouse key for popping up the context
> menu and select
> 
>   "find declaration of ..."

Short cut is by default Alt-


Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

Thank you all.

Regards,
Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Aradeonas]

Its similar to to Controls.pas in Delphi7 but class are big but its not
the point (I just didnt wanted to put each control in one unit) my point
is finding out browsing and editing big units.

Regards,
Ara


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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Marcos Douglas]

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:52 PM, Aradeonas  wrote:
> Its similar to to Controls.pas in Delphi7 but class are big but its not the 
> point
>

Because was coded in a big company doesn't mean was right coded.
But, as you said, its not the point.

> (I just didnt wanted to put each control in one unit) my point
> is finding out browsing and editing big units.

As Martin and others said, the IDE will help you. Good luck.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

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Re: [Lazarus] Working on big units

[Martin Frb]

On 21/10/2015 21:02, Martin Frb wrote:


folding (if that is your thing)

There are shortcuts to fold ALL nodes at a specific level.
alt-shift-1  (or 2, 3 4 ... for level)
alt-shift-0 unfold

depending on what you have configured as fold-able try alt-shift-3 
(maybe 4) and you just see function headers.


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