Re: [leaf-user] watchdog timer on BUC

2016-09-22 Thread Erich Titl 
HI

Am 22.09.2016 um 20:20 schrieb Jean-Roch Blais:
> Hello Andrew,
..
> 
> 
> Ok I gladly agree to this, since this means there is no need to devise an 
> external watchdog timer, right ? There is a lot of people who don’t know that 
> then… :-(
> My previous motherboard would not reboot when it hanged, this is why I 
> thought there was no hardware wdt, but it might be that the wdt on this mobo 
> only 
shuts down the mobo like you said before. ( it is a Foxconn 661MXPlus
[img]http://i.imgur.com/38JiUW9.jpg[/img] and the SIS900 onboard nic was
now and then sending me warning messages… )
So depending on the mobo, the wdt can reboot or shutdown the mobo, do
you know any way to choose which  ???

You will have to read the specs of the motherboard, e.g. the chipset and
look at the driver implementation. It might even be possible that the
driver has multiple operation modi available and you might be able to
set the behaviour at driver load or talking to the driver.

That requires work sorry

cheers

ET

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Re: [leaf-user] watchdog timer on BUC

2016-09-22 Thread Jean-Roch Blais 

> Le 22 sept. 2016 à 17:57, Erich Titl  a écrit :
> 
> HI
> 
> Am 22.09.2016 um 20:20 schrieb Jean-Roch Blais:
>> Hello Andrew,
> ..
>> 
>> 
>> Ok I gladly agree to this, since this means there is no need to devise an 
>> external watchdog timer, right ? There is a lot of people who don’t know 
>> that then… :-(
>> My previous motherboard would not reboot when it hanged, this is why I 
>> thought there was no hardware wdt, but it might be that the wdt on this mobo 
>> only 
> shuts down the mobo like you said before. ( it is a Foxconn 661MXPlus
> [img]http://i.imgur.com/38JiUW9.jpg[/img] and the SIS900 onboard nic was
> now and then sending me warning messages… )
> So depending on the mobo, the wdt can reboot or shutdown the mobo, do
> you know any way to choose which  ???
> 
> You will have to read the specs of the motherboard, e.g. the chipset and
> look at the driver implementation. It might even be possible that the
> driver has multiple operation modi available and you might be able to
> set the behaviour at driver load or talking to the driver.
> 
> That requires work sorry
> 
Andrew, what do you think, is it possible to easily learn/know how a specific 
mobo watchdog timer will behave ? There is a lot of mobo around… If, as Erich 
comment implies, "this requires work", and coming from him it probably means « 
a lot », it might be easier to go back to this external Arduino project I was 
talking about, who would care about obscure/undocumented  mobo behaviour then, 
it would work no matter what … Which way is the least/simplest effort ?

Erich, I still would like to know, what we should do about the dnsmasq/dhcpcd 
apparent dichotomy… Is that problem important enough to justify going further, 
like contacting the author, or fixing it on our own ? Just your thoughts since 
it now works fine for me with #background, and if I’m the only one then ……… :-) 
!   Well wrong thread for this question I presume, but I’m a newbie … :-) !

> cheers
> 
> ET
> 
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Re: [leaf-user] watchdog timer on BUC

2016-09-22 Thread Pascale Desbiens 

> Le 22 sept. 2016 à 17:57, Erich Titl  a écrit :
> 
> HI
> 
> Am 22.09.2016 um 20:20 schrieb Jean-Roch Blais:
>> Hello Andrew,
> ..
>> 
>> 
>> Ok I gladly agree to this, since this means there is no need to devise an 
>> external watchdog timer, right ? There is a lot of people who don’t know 
>> that then… :-(
>> My previous motherboard would not reboot when it hanged, this is why I 
>> thought there was no hardware wdt, but it might be that the wdt on this mobo 
>> only 
> shuts down the mobo like you said before. ( it is a Foxconn 661MXPlus
> [img]http://i.imgur.com/38JiUW9.jpg[/img] and the SIS900 onboard nic was
> now and then sending me warning messages… )
> So depending on the mobo, the wdt can reboot or shutdown the mobo, do
> you know any way to choose which  ???
> 
> You will have to read the specs of the motherboard, e.g. the chipset and
> look at the driver implementation. It might even be possible that the
> driver has multiple operation modi available and you might be able to
> set the behaviour at driver load or talking to the driver.
> 
> That requires work sorry
> 
Let’s ask Andrew :-), he seems good at it :-) :-) !

> cheers
> 
> ET
> 
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Re: [leaf-user] watchdog timer on BUC

2016-09-22 Thread Jean-Roch Blais 
Hello Andrew, Erich !
> Le 21 sept. 2016 à 04:52, Andrew  a écrit :
> 
> Most of boards have some kind of watchdog on board (in MIO or in south 
> bridge), or some of them. For ex., iTCO_wdt for Intel, it87_wdt for ITE 
> MIO, and so on.
> 
> But built-in watchdog behavior may differ depending board model (it may 
> reboot board, or it may just poweroff board, like ITE watchdog on old 
> Asus K8N).
> 
> Also, Intel watchdog driver is loaded automatically, MIO watchdog 
> drivers are loaded manually (from command line or from /etc/modules).
> 
> You can try it - load driver, and then do 'killall -9 watchdog' (to kill 
> watchdog process & simulate system hangup). If board will be rebooted - 
> all is OK.
> 
Yes it does that indeed, I killed the watchdog0 and 1 plus the watchdog 
processes and my system rebooted, the drivers are already loaded in BUC ( lsmod 
gives iTCO_wdt ), no need to load anything, but it’s good to know how it works. 
But my question still stands, there is no hardware lockup watchdog timer, it 
has to be an external contraption which would detect an absence of activity on 
the motherboard and activate the hardware reset button… I’ve seen some wifi 
switches that do this for routers 
(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BU2ALGO/ for exemple).  It does not ship 
to Canada though :-) !!!  I’ve started some preliminary tests to perform the 
same basic thing using an Arduino on one of BUC’s USB port, and it looks 
promising… if you are interested I could let you know how it goes !
bye !


> On 21.09.2016 05:29, Jean-Roch Blais wrote:
>> Hello List,
>> 
>> My previous pentium IV motherboard running BUC 5.1.7 was randomly crashing, 
>> I had to use hard reset to start it again, and it would run fine, as long as 
>> there was no intense traffic, I guess...
>> Since then I replaced it with another one running BUC 5.2.5, as one can 
>> probably tell from my dhcpcd/dnsmasq adventure in my previous e-mails to the 
>> list…
>> 
>> This made me wonder how the watchdog timer was working on BUC.  I think 
>> Erich Titl mentioned in some previous mail that the software watchdog was 
>> writing to /dev/watchdog every 10 seconds to prevent a system reboot/reset. 
>> This prevents software lockups but does not cover hardware problems like the 
>> one I experienced with my sick mobo. Obviously if the CPU is not running 
>> you’re hanged :-) .
>> 
>> Has anybody ever worked on an external hardware watchdog reset timer that 
>> would do such a hardware reset ?
>> 
>> Thank’s
>> 
>> jrb
>> 
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>> 
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
>> Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [leaf-user] watchdog timer on BUC

2016-09-22 Thread Andrew 
Hi.

On 22.09.2016 20:32, Jean-Roch Blais wrote:
> Hello Andrew, Erich !
>> Le 21 sept. 2016 à 04:52, Andrew  a écrit :
>>
>> Most of boards have some kind of watchdog on board (in MIO or in south
>> bridge), or some of them. For ex., iTCO_wdt for Intel, it87_wdt for ITE
>> MIO, and so on.
>>
>> But built-in watchdog behavior may differ depending board model (it may
>> reboot board, or it may just poweroff board, like ITE watchdog on old
>> Asus K8N).
>>
>> Also, Intel watchdog driver is loaded automatically, MIO watchdog
>> drivers are loaded manually (from command line or from /etc/modules).
>>
>> You can try it - load driver, and then do 'killall -9 watchdog' (to kill
>> watchdog process & simulate system hangup). If board will be rebooted -
>> all is OK.
>>
> Yes it does that indeed, I killed the watchdog0 and 1 plus the watchdog 
> processes and my system rebooted, the drivers are already loaded in BUC ( 
> lsmod gives iTCO_wdt ), no need to load anything, but it’s good to know how 
> it works. But my question still stands, there is no hardware lockup watchdog 
> timer, it has to be an external contraption which would detect an absence of 
> activity on the motherboard and activate the hardware reset button… I’ve seen 
> some wifi switches that do this for routers 
> (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BU2ALGO/ for exemple).  It does not 
> ship to Canada though :-) !!!  I’ve started some preliminary tests to perform 
> the same basic thing using an Arduino on one of BUC’s USB port, and it looks 
> promising… if you are interested I could let you know how it goes !
> bye !
You are wrong, iTCO_wdt is hardware watchdog timer. It doesn't use CPU 
for rebooting - this is separate circuit in the chipset.
You may even try to disable reboot on kernel panic and initiate kernel 
panic, or even teke out one DIMM module - and system will be rebooted.

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Re: [leaf-user] watchdog timer on BUC

2016-09-22 Thread Jean-Roch Blais 
Hello Andrew,
> Le 22 sept. 2016 à 13:53, Andrew  a écrit :
> 
> Hi.
> 
> On 22.09.2016 20:32, Jean-Roch Blais wrote:
>> Hello Andrew, Erich !
>>> Le 21 sept. 2016 à 04:52, Andrew  a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Most of boards have some kind of watchdog on board (in MIO or in south
>>> bridge), or some of them. For ex., iTCO_wdt for Intel, it87_wdt for ITE
>>> MIO, and so on.
>>> 
>>> But built-in watchdog behavior may differ depending board model (it may
>>> reboot board, or it may just poweroff board, like ITE watchdog on old
>>> Asus K8N).
>>> 
>>> Also, Intel watchdog driver is loaded automatically, MIO watchdog
>>> drivers are loaded manually (from command line or from /etc/modules).
>>> 
>>> You can try it - load driver, and then do 'killall -9 watchdog' (to kill
>>> watchdog process & simulate system hangup). If board will be rebooted -
>>> all is OK.
>>> 
>> Yes it does that indeed, I killed the watchdog0 and 1 plus the watchdog 
>> processes and my system rebooted, the drivers are already loaded in BUC ( 
>> lsmod gives iTCO_wdt ), no need to load anything, but it’s good to know how 
>> it works. But my question still stands, there is no hardware lockup watchdog 
>> timer, it has to be an external contraption which would detect an absence of 
>> activity on the motherboard and activate the hardware reset button… I’ve 
>> seen some wifi switches that do this for routers 
>> (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BU2ALGO/ for exemple).  It does not 
>> ship to Canada though :-) !!!  I’ve started some preliminary tests to 
>> perform the same basic thing using an Arduino on one of BUC’s USB port, and 
>> it looks promising… if you are interested I could let you know how it goes !
>> bye !
> You are wrong, iTCO_wdt is hardware watchdog timer. It doesn't use CPU for 
> rebooting - this is separate circuit in the chipset.
> You may even try to disable reboot on kernel panic and initiate kernel panic, 
> or even teke out one DIMM module - and system will be rebooted.


Ok I gladly agree to this, since this means there is no need to devise an 
external watchdog timer, right ? There is a lot of people who don’t know that 
then… :-(
My previous motherboard would not reboot when it hanged, this is why I thought 
there was no hardware wdt, but it might be that the wdt on this mobo only shuts 
down the mobo like you said before. ( it is a Foxconn 661MXPlus 
[img]http://i.imgur.com/38JiUW9.jpg[/img] and the SIS900 onboard nic was now 
and then sending me warning messages… ) So depending on the mobo, the wdt can 
reboot or shutdown the mobo, do you know any way to choose which  ???

thanks again !
jrb



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