Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-14 Thread Warner Losh
On 01/13/2011 22:19, Tom Van Baak wrote: It would appear that making adjustments every 10 days is not often enough, at least in the US, viz: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp50/NISTUTC.cfm http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp50/nistusno.cfm Even if we abandon the leap second, we have issues at

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-14 Thread Warner Losh
On 01/14/2011 00:22, Sanjeev Gupta wrote: On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 13:47, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com mailto:t...@leapsecond.com wrote: You really didn't expect 250 diffeent atomic clocks around the world to all agree at the ns level at all times did you? tounge-in-cheek Why

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-14 Thread Warner Losh
On 01/14/2011 03:29, Tony Finch wrote: On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, Steve Allen wrote: Alas, 'tis neither normal nor expected by the APIs and the programmers who are implementing systems that deal with time. One of the core abstractions provided by operating systems is some coherent model of time. And

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-14 Thread Matsakis, Demetrios
-boun...@leapsecond.com [mailto:leapsecs-boun...@leapsecond.com] On Behalf Of Sanjeev Gupta Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:23 AM To: Leap Second Discussion List Subject: Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 13:47, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: You

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-14 Thread Michael Deckers
On 2011-01-14 16:26, Warner Losh wrote: The BIPM collects time and frequency data for the different clocks, measured against each other. Each clock then has an error in frequency and time computed. These clocks are then weighted based on assigned values (based on the time scientists

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-14 Thread Richard Langley
Continuously adjusting clocks, even atomic clocks, to keep them within a certain tight tolerance is, in general, not a good pratice. Clocks will keep better time if left running. Rather, the offset of the clock from the standard is measured and used as appropriate. Performance levels of

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-14 Thread Warner Losh
On 01/14/2011 09:40, Richard Langley wrote: Continuously adjusting clocks, even atomic clocks, to keep them within a certain tight tolerance is, in general, not a good pratice. Clocks will keep better time if left running. Rather, the offset of the clock from the standard is measured and used

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-13 Thread Tom Van Baak
It would appear that making adjustments every 10 days is not often enough, at least in the US, viz: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp50/NISTUTC.cfm http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp50/nistusno.cfm Even if we abandon the leap second, we have issues at the nanosecond level. This is what

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-13 Thread Tom Van Baak
Alas, 'tis neither normal nor expected by the APIs and the programmers who are implementing systems that deal with time. Let me find some good references for you on how the UTC paper clock actually works. Inter-comparing the clocks from each national laboratory is in itself a fascinating

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-13 Thread Sanjeev Gupta
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 13:47, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: You really didn't expect 250 diffeent atomic clocks around the world to all agree at the ns level at all times did you? tounge-in-cheek Why not? nano is 10E-9, and I see references to people trying for clocks with 10E-12

[LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-12 Thread Rob Seaman
Apologies for a delayed reply, I'm on travel at a conference. On Sat, 8 Jan 2011, I wrote: I do not believe the unstated magic timezone notion (if indeed that is an idea motivating the authors of the draft in front of the ITU) can work (or rather, I do not believe that this notion

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-12 Thread Tony Finch
On Wed, 12 Jan 2011, Rob Seaman wrote: Sloshing the timezones around willy-nilly by every regional government on Earth is not a solution to establishing the underlying common timescale. Of course not, that's backwards. The common timescale is the basis of timezones, not the other way round.

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-12 Thread Warner Losh
On 01/12/2011 10:30, Steve Allen wrote: On Wed 2011-01-12T16:36:35 +, Tony Finch hath writ: Yes, but how accurately do you need clocks to track it? How frequently do you need to make adjustments to correct for the atomic/angular rate error, and what size of adjustment is acceptable? It

Re: [LEAPSECS] Looking-glass, through

2011-01-12 Thread Clive D.W. Feather
Rob Seaman said: For instance, what authority will historians or lawyers consult to learn the applicable timezone offsets that were in force in some location(s) during some epoch(s) in question? FX: falls about laughing Those of us on the timezone list can't even find out this information