Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-15 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Daniel R. Tobias writes: http://gauss.gge.unb.ca/papers.pdf/gpsworld.january01.pdf One quibble with that article is that it gives the Global Positioning System as an example of how humanity has been obsessed with knowing what time it is. Actually, GPS arises from

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-14 Thread Daniel R. Tobias
On 13 Dec 2006 at 21:43, Steve Allen wrote: http://gauss.gge.unb.ca/papers.pdf/gpsworld.january01.pdf One quibble with that article is that it gives the Global Positioning System as an example of how humanity has been obsessed with knowing what time it is. Actually, GPS arises from our

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-14 Thread Richard B. Langley
From its outset, GPS was intended to provide position, velocity and time (PVT). In some of his public talks, one of the people credited with inventing GPS, Brad Parkinson, renames GPS to GPtS to drive the point home that it is a positioning and timing service. -- Richard Langley On Thu, 14 Dec

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-14 Thread Brian Garrett
- Original Message - From: Daniel R. Tobias [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LEAPSECS@ROM.USNO.NAVY.MIL Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:45 AM Subject: Re: [LEAPSECS] what time is it, legally? On 13 Dec 2006 at 21:43, Steve Allen wrote: http://gauss.gge.unb.ca/papers.pdf/gpsworld.january01

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-13 Thread Ed Davies
Rob Seaman wrote: I'm given to wonder how much of the friction on this mailing list is simply due to the shortcomings in the technology that implements it. I've appended a message I sent in August with four plots attached. Can someone tell me whether it is readable now or was successfully

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-13 Thread Peter Bunclark
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Ed Davies wrote: Rob Seaman wrote: I'm given to wonder how much of the friction on this mailing list is simply due to the shortcomings in the technology that implements it. I've appended a message I sent in August with four plots attached. Can someone tell me

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-13 Thread Magnus Danielson
From: Peter Bunclark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LEAPSECS] what time is it, legally? Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:05:00 + Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rob, On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Ed Davies wrote: Rob Seaman wrote: I'm given to wonder how much of the friction on this mailing list

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-13 Thread Rob Seaman
On Dec 12, 2006, at 5:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To avoid such failures in the future, Tom Van Baak has agreed to take over its management and he is now working on the technical issues involving the migration. Thanks for looking into that. Thanks to Tom for accepting another (nearly)

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-13 Thread Steve Allen
On Tue 2006-12-12T09:18:57 -0400, Richard B. Langley hath writ: For an overview of some of the legal issues of time see GPS and the Legal Traceability of Time by Judah Levine in my GPS World Innovation column, January 2001. -- Richard Langley Professor of Geodesy and Precision Navigation

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-12 Thread Richard B. Langley
For an overview of some of the legal issues of time see GPS and the Legal Traceability of Time by Judah Levine in my GPS World Innovation column, January 2001. -- Richard Langley Professor of Geodesy and Precision Navigation and Contributing Editor, GPS World Magazine On Mon, 11 Dec 2006,

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-12 Thread Zefram
Steve Allen wrote: http://www.uakron.edu/law/docs/parrish36.1.pdf Interesting. What this shows, to me, is that timescales are chosen bottom-up: legislation doesn't really work. People choose a timescale according to their needs at the time. At the start of the narrative people used local solar

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-12 Thread Rob Seaman
On Dec 12, 2006, at 9:38 AM, Zefram wrote: ...a lot of stuff I agree with. Standard timezones have replaced solar time in general use But this needs a clarification. Standard time replaced local apparent solar time in several steps. First, clock (mean) time replaced apparent time for civil

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-12 Thread M. Warner Losh
I view the same data differently. I see it as a progression: Local Solar time - mean local solar time - timezone as mean local time at one point used for many - UTC - ??? Clearly, we're moving away from solar time and towards something else. Our ability to tell time has exceeded the

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-12 Thread Tom Van Baak
But this needs a clarification. Standard time replaced local apparent solar time in several steps. First, clock (mean) time replaced apparent time for civil purposes. As you can see from the proliferation of railroad standards, these were both still local to one place or another. Later,

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-12 Thread Magnus Danielson
From: Steve Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [LEAPSECS] what time is it, legally? Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 20:45:58 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This history is apparently not lost to folks at NIST, for the US senate continues to consider legislation which would explicitly rewrite US

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-12 Thread Rob Seaman
On Dec 12, 2006, at 1:57 PM, M. Warner Losh wrote: I view the same data differently. I see it as a progression: Local Solar time - mean local solar time - timezone as mean local time at one point used for many - UTC - ??? Clearly, we're moving away from solar time and towards something

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-12 Thread matsakis . demetrios
- From: Leap Seconds Issues To: LEAPSECS@ROM.USNO.NAVY.MIL Sent: 12/12/2006 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [LEAPSECS] what time is it, legally? I'm given to wonder how much of the friction on this mailing list is simply due to the shortcomings in the technology that implements it. I've appended a message I

what time is it, legally?

2006-12-11 Thread Steve Allen
Longtime readers of LEAPSECS will remember that in the wake of the Torino colloquium we started joking about legal implications of civil time in the absence of leap seconds. This was before the Internet Mail Archive started recording the content of the list, and due to issues at USNO it was among