Re: ledger vs hledger vs beancount or how to choose the right cli client
On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 11:12:26 -0400 Martin Blais bl...@furius.ca wrote: Hello Martin, Again, what makes you think that the other softwares are running behind? In some of the ways that it differs, I view some of the new features I implement in Beancount as new and pushing the envelope forward. don't get me wrong...but I use Gnucash for several years and before that I spent some time whether I should start taking care about my finances and do bookkeeping. Even then, I was aware of the existance of both ledger and hledger - it looks I had to go throuugh experience with GC before considering cli - but never heard about Beancount until 10 days ago or so. Hledger clearly says it does not support all the ledger's features, although it adds some of its own stuff like web ui, some reports etc., so, as John confirmed, my impression was that for the 'core' financial stuff, ledger is the leader. I apologize if it does not apply to Beancount. Personally I think that syntax is a poor way to evaluate software. That's true, but it's pragmatic! For instance, I've, more or less, settled to use Fossil (http://fossil-scm.org/) as my primary DVCS. Although I like its features/simplicity/power/security/etc. it's still awesome to know there is way out to the most popular Git if something goes wrong. Here are the steps to convert Fossil repo to git: git init new-repo cd new-repo fossil export --git ../repo.fossil | git fast-import Otoh, using Beancount with its incompatible syntax means, one is on his/her own when wishing to go 'back' to Ledger which is certainly more popular and with greater community behind. Shortly, (ic)compatibility is not the metric to evaluate software, but pragmatic concern. I see 2.0beta: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/beancount I've just updated and called it 2.0beta2 (I'm not very good about updating indexes all around the web.) I was Googling for Beancount and the link for 0.9 was higher. :-) Moreover, I run Debian Sid and was able to install (h)ledger with simple: apt-get install, while I do not see packages for Beancount? Aren't they nicely readable and beautifully formatted and available on all your devices and in many formats? Isn't this the goal of documentation? Why don't you like them? I like that 'reading' is separate from 'editing'. There was a user in #ledger yesterday who got the feeling that he needs to have Google account to be able to read it and he wrote: I give it up. Why don't you simply use something like https://readthedocs.org/ which seems to be popular for Python stuff? I just click on the reject button to remove those accidental suggestions when that happens. Also, I might accept the suggestion but reject the specific change and reword things manually to make it better; that would also show up as a rejected suggestion. Nothing personal. Nothing personal, don't worry, but it was a bit strange. For me, it's more natural to use my preferred editor, fix things and then 'pull request', send a patch etc. Furthermore, beyond their capabilities, languages nurture particular cultures. In many ways, these cultures subsume the particular technical advantages of computer languages. As examples relevant to the case in point, despite its inherent looseness in typing and glaring performance disadvantages, Python has succeeded in creating a uniquely vibrant culture of making things simple and explicit, with great documentation and adherence to well-defined contracts (via conventions). Considering that Hledger is slower than Ledger, I wonder how does Benacount perform in comparison? Alright, this is getting seriously OT. :-) I think you misunderstood what I meant. I'm saying CLI accounting is easy to implement and should be equally doable in any language. So, yes. OK. I had impression you're thinking about the way how the calc is performed, iow. about representation of numbers. Sincerely, Gour -- One must deliver himself with the help of his mind, and not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well. -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: ledger vs hledger vs beancount or how to choose the right cli client
On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 3:22 AM, Gour g...@atmarama.net wrote: On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 11:12:26 -0400 Martin Blais bl...@furius.ca wrote: Hello Martin, Again, what makes you think that the other softwares are running behind? In some of the ways that it differs, I view some of the new features I implement in Beancount as new and pushing the envelope forward. don't get me wrong...but I use Gnucash for several years and before that I spent some time whether I should start taking care about my finances and do bookkeeping. Even then, I was aware of the existance of both ledger and hledger - it looks I had to go throuugh experience with GC before considering cli - but never heard about Beancount until 10 days ago or so. Hledger clearly says it does not support all the ledger's features, although it adds some of its own stuff like web ui, some reports etc., so, as John confirmed, my impression was that for the 'core' financial stuff, ledger is the leader. On this list and in the documents I've shared with you I've argued and shown specific examples how the lack of inventory booking in Ledger's model offers little support for entering a correct replication of investment trades and calculate capital gains incorrectly. It makes it very difficult if not impossible to enter correct data about past trades--errors in data entry are very common in my experience (that is, the experience of creating a replication of 8 years worth of trades with a system that _does_ detect such errors, errors which would otherwise have gone undetected by the Ledger model). The conversions problem is also not solved--it is possible with Ledger to produce a trial balance with a residual value, which is impossible in Beancount--this provides an additional assurance of correctness. For these reasons, in terms of core financial stuff, the current model Ledger implements falls short, and the model Beancount offers is better suited for replicating account history, especially when it comes to maintaining cost basis of investments. I see 2.0beta: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/beancount I've just updated and called it 2.0beta2 (I'm not very good about updating indexes all around the web.) I was Googling for Beancount and the link for 0.9 was higher. :-) Moreover, I run Debian Sid and was able to install (h)ledger with simple: apt-get install, while I do not see packages for Beancount? That's just because nobody packaged it for Debian. Clone the repo, python3 setup.py install. Standard procedure. I won't package for all distros myself, I have other things to do. Aren't they nicely readable and beautifully formatted and available on all your devices and in many formats? Isn't this the goal of documentation? Why don't you like them? I like that 'reading' is separate from 'editing'. There was a user in #ledger yesterday who got the feeling that he needs to have Google account to be able to read it and he wrote: I give it up. Well he did not try very hard. I find it odd that some in the open source community balk at the use of my documentation tools. The point of documentation is that you're able to read it. If you can read it and contribute to it, the goal has been achieved. How conservative. Why don't you simply use something like https://readthedocs.org/ which seems to be popular for Python stuff? Because I think Google Docs is better. There is simply no parallel in how it allows you to make immediate corrections without having to patch source code and rebuild. I can even make changes on my phone while I'm on the go! Unless someone builds and maintains a similar libre service, there is simply no comparison when it comes to allowing you to contribute changes and fixes and comments. In the few months I've shared my Beancount documents, I've already received far more contributions and corrections than in 10 entire years of traditional rst-based documentation for all my other projects combined. Most often in the OSS community, people don't contribute to docs. So far the experiment is paying off handsomely and I have felt little to desire to retreat to my old tools. If anything, it has encouraged me to write more. I love Google Docs. I just click on the reject button to remove those accidental suggestions when that happens. Also, I might accept the suggestion but reject the specific change and reword things manually to make it better; that would also show up as a rejected suggestion. Nothing personal. Nothing personal, don't worry, but it was a bit strange. For me, it's more natural to use my preferred editor, fix things and then 'pull request', send a patch etc. Things change; adapt yourself. People are reluctant to change. Realize this. The world used to be desktops, then it was mostly all laptops, and by now it's mostly devices. You can highlight text, right-click and add a comment right there in your browser, and you automatically get an email notification later on.
Problem getting started with Ledger
Here's my ledger.dat: 2014/09/29 Employer Assets:Checking $500.00 Income:Salary When I run ledger -f ledger.dat balance, I get this error: Error: Posting with null amount's account may be mispelled: Assets:Checking $500.00 Why? -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Problem getting started with Ledger
you need two white space characters between the account name and amount. your sample looks like an accountname yhat ends in $500.00 -=Doug On 9/8/14 12:38 PM, Joseph Mornin wrote: Here's my ledger.dat: | 2014/09/29Employer Assets:Checking$500.00 Income:Salary | When I run ledger -f ledger.dat balance, I get this error: | Error:Postingwithnullamount's account may be mispelled: Assets:Checking $500.00 | Why? -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: ledger vs hledger vs beancount or how to choose the right cli client
On 9/7/14 8:12 AM, Martin Blais wrote: Ledger uses a rational number representation AFAIK. I had a quick look and I think it's here: https://github.com/ledger/ledger/blob/master/src/amount.h#L83 I'm not so familiar with HLedger's source code, all I see is a Haskell Double, which surprises me: https://github.com/simonmichael/hledger/blob/master/hledger-lib/Hledger/Data/Types.hs#L49 This is probably not what's used. Simon: what are you using to represent number types? Yes Double with some extra smarts at present. Decimal soon probably, see http://ircbrowse.net/browse/hledger?id=884timestamp=1409941137#t1409941137 for more discussion. -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Problem getting started with Ledger
Thanks! On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:43:03 AM UTC-7, Doug wrote: you need two white space characters between the account name and amount. your sample looks like an accountname yhat ends in $500.00 -=Doug On 9/8/14 12:38 PM, Joseph Mornin wrote: Here's my ledger.dat: | 2014/09/29Employer Assets:Checking$500.00 Income:Salary | When I run ledger -f ledger.dat balance, I get this error: | Error:Postingwithnullamount's account may be mispelled: Assets:Checking $500.00 | Why? -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+...@googlegroups.com javascript: mailto: ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
New fontification Scheme
I have spent the last month overhauling ledger fontification. I gave up on using the standard REGEX based methods that most font lockers use. Instead I wrote a few functions that actually understand the semantics of a ledger xact then had jit-lock and font-lock call those. Overall there is much more flexibility and it seems to be plenty fast. The regexes I do use are much simpler. I tested with a file that had 2,613,072 postings and it was lighting fast. Comments after amounts are now properly recognized and you can fontify an entire xact based on its overall status (my favorite part, that font-lock just really couldn't do). For those of you who use lots of different directives there are now separate faces possible for all valid directives (or just use one face for all directives) Please check it out and report any bugs you find. I have banged on it for a while and it has been stable and well behaved. Of course you will find problems. -- Craig, Corona De Tucson, AZ enderw88.wordpress.com -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: New fontification Scheme
On Sep 8, 2014, at 8:49 PM, Craig Earls ender...@gmail.com wrote: I have spent the last month overhauling ledger fontification. I gave up on using the standard REGEX based methods that most font lockers use. Instead I wrote a few functions that actually understand the semantics of a ledger xact then had jit-lock and font-lock call those. Overall there is much more flexibility and it seems to be plenty fast. The regexes I do use are much simpler. I tested with a file that had 2,613,072 postings and it was lighting fast. Comments after amounts are now properly recognized and you can fontify an entire xact based on its overall status (my favorite part, that font-lock just really couldn't do). Awesome! Thanks so much for your work man. For those of you who use lots of different directives there are now separate faces possible for all valid directives (or just use one face for all directives) Please check it out and report any bugs you find. I have banged on it for a while and it has been stable and well behaved. Of course you will find problems. Gotta say for the first thirty seconds I though it was totally broken when everything was white, made sense once I scrolled down (white for cleared transactions, green for budget, normal for uncleared, at least with my theme). So far it's recognizing (highlighting properly): assertions, lot value / posting cost / amount expressions, and posting notes. Sweet! However, it unfortunately doesn't smartly indent any of the above except plain currency values. What would go into fixing that? I can take a look. -- Craig, Corona De Tucson, AZ enderw88.wordpress.com -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: New fontification Scheme
Indentation is totally independent of font-lock. There is a bug noted already. I just haven't gotten to it. On Monday, September 8, 2014, Andrew Schwartzmeyer and...@schwartzmeyer.com wrote: On Sep 8, 2014, at 8:49 PM, Craig Earls ender...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: I have spent the last month overhauling ledger fontification. I gave up on using the standard REGEX based methods that most font lockers use. Instead I wrote a few functions that actually understand the semantics of a ledger xact then had jit-lock and font-lock call those. Overall there is much more flexibility and it seems to be plenty fast. The regexes I do use are much simpler. I tested with a file that had 2,613,072 postings and it was lighting fast. Comments after amounts are now properly recognized and you can fontify an entire xact based on its overall status (my favorite part, that font-lock just really couldn't do). Awesome! Thanks so much for your work man. For those of you who use lots of different directives there are now separate faces possible for all valid directives (or just use one face for all directives) Please check it out and report any bugs you find. I have banged on it for a while and it has been stable and well behaved. Of course you will find problems. Gotta say for the first thirty seconds I though it was totally broken when everything was white, made sense once I scrolled down (white for cleared transactions, green for budget, normal for uncleared, at least with my theme). So far it's recognizing (highlighting properly): assertions, lot value / posting cost / amount expressions, and posting notes. Sweet! However, it unfortunately doesn't smartly indent any of the above except plain currency values. What would go into fixing that? I can take a look. -- Craig, Corona De Tucson, AZ enderw88.wordpress.com -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:;. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:;. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Craig, Corona De Tucson, AZ enderw88.wordpress.com -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Ledger group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
