Re: Re: Re: Do you use your template follower On your Legacy Ornamental Mill
Hello and Good morning everyone. Thank you Joe for your views on this topic. I like the Shop Smith duplicator, like you said "to get into all the "nooks" and "crannies", I like to think of it like this, you can Attack the wood at the proper angles to get the best results.The other two stiles that I have used I was not happy with. They both worked on the Vega design. I like the idea of having a copier on the back side of the machine it sounds to be like the best of both worlds. But if you can get back to the template follower on the Legacy, It is not exactly the same thing. AND I think of it in this way. IT IS NOT MADE to do the same things, as a lathe copier. "Apples and Oranges" if you like..? The Legacy's template follower can do some very Neat things, but it is not made or should you look at it to do that same job as the lathe copier would... other wise I think you will be disappointed if you expect one thing and then get the other. I have to run nowhave a good day everyone.C.A.G. On Monday, February 19, 2018 10:25 AM, 'Ronald Kirchoff' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: Hi CurtWhen I sent my last message on the topic I had't read Mike's response. Undercutting can be done on the SS but would require rotation of the router about the B axis. RegardsRon In a message dated 2/18/2018 12:19:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com writes: Hello RonI like the idea. And cant wait to see what you come up with...Please take lots of pictures. C.A.G. On Sunday, February 18, 2018 9:20 AM, 'Ronald Kirchoff' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: Hi CurtSorry for getting back to you so late. I have been very busy and it doesn't take much at 83. I was thinking of making "L" brackets mounted to the top back rails.The brackets would have a slot in them for a sliding metal plate with a threaded hole. A screw with a pointed end would thread into the hole in the metal plate. This screw would be used to install the original turning. This is much like the template holder for the Shop Smith duplicator turnings. Alignment procedures would be the same for each. Large turnings can be done by the follower being pushed against the template on the near side and cutting would be on the near side of the turning. Regards,Ron Hello Ronaldusing the original is not as easy as you would think on the Legacy, the brackets are made to hold flat templates. If you could mount the original idiom on the brackets, then you are also limited as for spacing/ clearance of the follower. ONE other benefit of using my suggested method is locating or positioning the work. If you mount the template/ board, in such a way it only can be mounted in that position after tracing out the pattern, it would much easier to re-align, in the future... I use my Shop Smith duplicator a lot, for rough turnings, and then The Legacy to do the finals depending on what I want to make. but ... When there is a will there is always a way. I believe that no one machine is its own in all-be-all , do everything machine. EVERYTHING has its purpose and its place. AND Its just up to us, to figure out what that place is??? ;-) I got to run. Have a good day.C.A.G. On Sunday, February 4, 2018 7:54 AM, 'Ronald Kirchoff' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: Hi CurtWhy not use the original as the pattern to follow. Mounting it to a set of brackets attached to the out side of the top rails. This is like the Shop Smith duplicator with the router attached to the duplicator arm. Ron (the math guy) In a message dated 2/3/2018 7:14:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com writes: Hello Everyone.an Idea cam to me today, (while driving home form work.) I have not done this on my Legacy but have done it with my Lathe. The idea is to use the Template follower on the Legacy as a Template Maker to produce template that you can reproduce. If you put an already made spindle in between the centers on the Legacy, then set up a blank template ( just a sheet of piece of wood/hardboard/plastic) on the template holder.If you put a copying router bit, (or any bit with a ball bearing guide on it.) You can trace the turning.Now all that you need to do it , put a pencil or marker mounted on the Legacy's follower (where the guild normally is placed.)When you run your ball bearing bit along the spindle, the follower (with the marker on it.) will trace the spindle, leaving you with the marker's out-line of your new template. then all you need to do is cut it out, and then re-mount the template in your original location, to make copy/ re-production of the spindle. Now what can make this fun, is Make any spindle you want, and once done, you can use the same set-up as I described. to copy your original, so you can make more... The Legacy's template follower can be used for many things other then just re-producing from start to finish idioms.The Legacy is NOT a copy lathe, but i
Re: Re: Re: Do you use your template follower On your Legacy Ornamental Mill
Hi Curt When I sent my last message on the topic I had't read Mike's response. Undercutting can be done on the SS but would require rotation of the router about the B axis. Regards Ron In a message dated 2/18/2018 12:19:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com writes: Hello Ron I like the idea. And cant wait to see what you come up with... Please take lots of pictures. C.A.G. On Sunday, February 18, 2018 9:20 AM, 'Ronald Kirchoff' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: Hi Curt Sorry for getting back to you so late. I have been very busy and it doesn't take much at 83. I was thinking of making "L" brackets mounted to the top back rails.The brackets would have a slot in them for a sliding metal plate with a threaded hole. A screw with a pointed end would thread into the hole in the metal plate. This screw would be used to install the original turning. This is much like the template holder for the Shop Smith duplicator turnings. Alignment procedures would be the same for each. Large turnings can be done by the follower being pushed against the template on the near side and cutting would be on the near side of the turning. Regards, Ron Hello Ronald using the original is not as easy as you would think on the Legacy, the brackets are made to hold flat templates. If you could mount the original idiom on the brackets, then you are also limited as for spacing/ clearance of the follower. ONE other benefit of using my suggested method is locating or positioning the work. If you mount the template/ board, in such a way it only can be mounted in that position after tracing out the pattern, it would much easier to re-align, in the future... I use my Shop Smith duplicator a lot, for rough turnings, and then The Legacy to do the finals depending on what I want to make. but ... When there is a will there is always a way. I believe that no one machine is its own in all-be-all , do everything machine. EVERYTHING has its purpose and its place. AND Its just up to us, to figure out what that place is??? ;-) I got to run. Have a good day. C.A.G. On Sunday, February 4, 2018 7:54 AM, 'Ronald Kirchoff' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: Hi Curt Why not use the original as the pattern to follow. Mounting it to a set of brackets attached to the out side of the top rails. This is like the Shop Smith duplicator with the router attached to the duplicator arm. Ron (the math guy) In a message dated 2/3/2018 7:14:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, legacy-ornamental- mi...@googlegroups.com writes: Hello Everyone. an Idea cam to me today, (while driving home form work.) I have not done this on my Legacy but have done it with my Lathe. The idea is to use the Template follower on the Legacy as a Template Maker to produce template that you can reproduce. If you put an already made spindle in between the centers on the Legacy, then set up a blank template ( just a sheet of piece of wood/hardboard/plastic) on the template holder. If you put a copying router bit, (or any bit with a ball bearing guide on it.) You can trace the turning. Now all that you need to do it , put a pencil or marker mounted on the Legacy's follower (where the guild normally is placed.) When you run your ball bearing bit along the spindle, the follower (with the marker on it.) will trace the spindle, leaving you with the marker's out-line of your new template. then all you need to do is cut it out, and then re-mount the template in your original location, to make copy/ re-production of the spindle. Now what can make this fun, is Make any spindle you want, and once done, you can use the same set-up as I described. to copy your original, so you can make more... The Legacy's template follower can be used for many things other then just re-producing from start to finish idioms. The Legacy is NOT a copy lathe, but it can be used as one. I personalty use the template follower for detail work, like side reeding a thin spindle, where I know a side cutting bit router bearing will slip and under cut what I plan to make. (exp. the cups that I have made over the last few weekends) Legacy made a few y ears ago, a video called Profile following. in this video they used a template to make a number of different idioms by using the follower. The sky is the limit. By using some simple ideas. you can make much more then you ever dreamed of. What do you all think? any and all comments are (as always) Welcome. C.A.G. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. For more options, visit https://groups.google.c
Re: Re: Re: Do you use your template follower On your Legacy Ornamental Mill
good morning gentlemen!...a couple of comments on templates and copying... we do quite a bit of multiples in our shop, mostly 4, 6, and 8...extremely rare if we do more than that of any one piece... over the years we have tried and used a few different types of copiers, all on our lathe, not the legacy... beginning with a sears copier that is very much like the shop smith setup... we found this to be somewhat advantageous, as you could position the cutter/follower in different orientations to get into "nooks" and "crannies", so to speak... we even would change the profile of the cutter and follower to a pointed shape(rather than the rounded shape) to clean up all the "steps", rather than using a turning chisel after the copying was done... the advantage to doing this copy work on a lathe is the speed you could run the spindle/work, and thus finish with a very clean piece needing very little sanding... the disadvantage was that it could(and did!) get to be a bit dangerous at times, depending on what type of wood you were working with, what profile you were trying to do, etcalso. having to remove the copier and reattach it numerous times, was a bit awkward and tedious...we then switched to the vega copier, for several reasons...first, we were able to get it 10 ft. long to suit our lathe and our jobs(mostly bed posts)...second, it was of the type that works as a sliding carriage which, once mounted, is very rigid... one hand moves the carriage left and right, the other moves the cutter in and out... with very little practice, excellent results can be achieved, and it was very safe to operate...third was the fact that we could mount the copier on the backside of the lathe permanently, without it effecting the capacity of the what the lathe could turn in regards to diameter...so we would do a copy, and without turning off the machine, go to the front and immediately do any touch ups with our turning chisels...when copying spindles, finials, etc. on the legacy, you need a long cutter to extend down from the router collet, to be able to reach down to the center line ( 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock position)...probably the smallest you would want to go is a 3/8 in. diameter bit, and even then, that diameter could be dangerous...1/2 in. is the safest way to go... and getting into details of a piece with that diameter bit is impossible... cleaning up the details with different router bits is also tedious, but if time is not a factor, certainly doable on the legacy...in regards to templates, our approach was if we needed a thin, flat pattern of what we were making, we simply cut a "slice" from the first piece that we made by hand(no template) on the lathe...this slice was cut from the center of the turning we made, usually 3/8 in to 1/2 in thick... yes, it did "ruin" our first, hand-turned piece, but we were keeping that piece anyway, for our template "library", and the cost factor was calculated into the job's estimate...these "flat" templates were used mostly for milling work into a piece after it was turned, as our vega duplicator could copy from a fully turned piece, and the piece was sliced after the turning work was done...we found this method to be fast and accurate, rather than make a template from plastic or wood...joe b. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Re: Re: Do you use your template follower On your Legacy Ornamental Mill
Hi Curt I agree with your point. However, I think that the Shop Smith approach, where the copy follower is the same shape as the cutter, goes a long way in solving that problem. Regards, Ron In a message dated 2/18/2018 12:57:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com writes: Hello again. along the lines of what is a template follower on the Legacy, The term is somewhat confusing. Most people think of the template follower as a way to make exact re-productions. On the Legacy I find this view is not exactly accurate, the template follower is a guide, as far as I see it. It is great for detail work where a router bit bearing can not be used. and you can keep a general shape of an idiom using the template. But to use a template to make an exact copy??? "Well" may-be? but ... Ive not been able to do it. And I dont think it/ the template follower is best suited for it... got a run. C.A.G. On Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:19 PM, 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: Hello Ron I like the idea. And cant wait to see what you come up with... Please take lots of pictures. C.A.G. On Sunday, February 18, 2018 9:20 AM, 'Ronald Kirchoff' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: Hi Curt Sorry for getting back to you so late. I have been very busy and it doesn't take much at 83. I was thinking of making "L" brackets mounted to the top back rails.The brackets would have a slot in them for a sliding metal plate with a threaded hole. A screw with a pointed end would thread into the hole in the metal plate. This screw would be used to install the original turning. This is much like the template holder for the Shop Smith duplicator turnings. Alignment procedures would be the same for each. Large turnings can be done by the follower being pushed against the template on the near side and cutting would be on the near side of the turning. Regards, Ron Hello Ronald using the original is not as easy as you would think on the Legacy, the brackets are made to hold flat templates. If you could mount the original idiom on the brackets, then you are also limited as for spacing/ clearance of the follower. ONE other benefit of using my suggested method is locating or positioning the work. If you mount the template/ board, in such a way it only can be mounted in that position after tracing out the pattern, it would much easier to re-align, in the future... I use my Shop Smith duplicator a lot, for rough turnings, and then The Legacy to do the finals depending on what I want to make. but ... When there is a will there is always a way. I believe that no one machine is its own in all-be-all , do everything machine. EVERYTHING has its purpose and its place. AND Its just up to us, to figure out what that place is??? ;-) I got to run. Have a good day. C.A.G. On Sunday, February 4, 2018 7:54 AM, 'Ronald Kirchoff' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: Hi Curt Why not use the original as the pattern to follow. Mounting it to a set of brackets attached to the out side of the top rails. This is like the Shop Smith duplicator with the router attached to the duplicator arm. Ron (the math guy) In a message dated 2/3/2018 7:14:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, legacy-ornamental- mi...@googlegroups.com writes: Hello Everyone. an Idea cam to me today, (while driving home form work.) I have not done this on my Legacy but have done it with my Lathe. The idea is to use the Template follower on the Legacy as a Template Maker to produce template that you can reproduce. If you put an already made spindle in between the centers on the Legacy, then set up a blank template ( just a sheet of piece of wood/hardboard/plastic) on the template holder. If you put a copying router bit, (or any bit with a ball bearing guide on it.) You can trace the turning. Now all that you need to do it , put a pencil or marker mounted on the Legacy's follower (where the guild normally is placed.) When you run your ball bearing bit along the spindle, the follower (with the marker on it.) will trace the spindle, leaving you with the marker's out-line of your new template. then all you need to do is cut it out, and then re-mount the template in your original location, to make copy/ re-production of the spindle. Now what can make this fun, is Make any spindle you want, and once done, you can use the same set-up as I described. to copy your original, so you can make more... The Legacy's template follower can be used for many things other then just re-producing from start to finish idioms. The Legacy is NOT a copy lathe, but it can be used as one. I personalty use the template follower for detail work, like side reeding a thin spindle, where I know a side cutting bit router bearing will slip and under cut what I plan to make. (exp. the cups that I have made over the last few weekends) Legacy made a few y ears ago, a video called Profile following. in thi
