Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated ;-)
One of my great grandfathers used different spellings for different types of documents - eg. Mackenzie, McKenzie, M'kenzie - nothing like a bit of variety! Judith On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 at 14:03, Hogrooter . wrote: > In addition to the widespread illiteracy of the time, paper to record > information was considered an expensive luxury. For people struggling to > pay for the basic necessities of living maintaining family records was not > very important. Spelling of a name, birth and death dates, etc. were well > down the list in relative importance. The family bible became an key site > to record family data. > > Dean Adams > > On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:44 PM Jane Linkswiler wrote: > >> As I understand it, Thomas Jefferson used to see how many different ways >> he could spell words. Spelling was not standardized til the mid 1800’s. >> >> >> >> Til I heard that, I used to be s proud of my spelling…. >> >> >> >> Jane in Phoenix >> >> >> >> *From:* LegacyUserGroup *On >> Behalf Of *Linda Greethurst >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 24, 2019 6:21 AM >> *To:* Legacy User Group >> *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated ;-) >> >> >> >> When I started my genealogical research many years ago, I was told to >> ignore spelling (one s or double s; D or T; -son or -sen; kn or just n; >> etc). Say the name out loud - if it sounds familiar, consider it and >> research it. Best lesson I learned. >> >> The reason was that the average person before 1880 usually got no more >> than an 8th grade education and more likely only 5th grade. Spelling was >> not a top priority. Don't get hung up on spelling and which version is >> correct. >> >> Sure enough - I have a legal document with the main person's surname >> spelled 5 different ways. >> >> Linda >> -- >> >> LegacyUserGroup mailing list >> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com >> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe >> http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com >> Archives at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ >> > > > -- > Dean > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
A lesson I learned: In the 1800’s and early 1900’s, the majority of individuals could not spell. Therefore, when they would need to record their name, they relied on the individual completing the form, to spell their names. This resulted in numerous and different spellings for the same individual. I have one record where the spelling of the same individual has 6 different spellings. On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 11:04 AM Ward Walker wrote: > Christopher, > > That could be helpful. Could you elaborate? I looked for a reference to > the ‘Passenger Arrival Lists’ on the Ellis Island web site but did not find > it. Do you know what became of these ledgers? What were they used for? Did > they really have an impact on how the immigrant was named, once settled in > their destination community? Were they used during the naturalization > process? I see that what FamilySearch.org calls a ‘New York Passenger > Arrival List’ is just a ship manifest. And additional googling for > ‘passenger arrival lists’ also turns up only ship manifests. > >Ward > > *From:* Christopher Seward Sr. > *Sent:* Sunday, November 24, 2019 3:33 PM > *To:* mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup > *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated > > > And those manifests were used to fill out Passenger Arrival Lists (what I > and others refer to as ledgers). This comes directly from the Ellis Island > website. > > I'm not sure why people are so passionate about stating that these errors > never happened, when indeed they did, even according to those who made them. > > This should be about encouraging people to be creative about their > research, not limiting it. > > Thanks, > > Christopher (genealogist for 40+ years) > On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: > > > > First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made > in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change > themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have > done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to > use the new spelling. > > I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks > like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the > one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the source (census, birth > record, marriage record, etc) for each individual time you find the name. > Then use the other name in database. > > Marie > > Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus > __ __ __ > CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for > Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified > genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is > registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. > In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, > cathyv...@cox.net writes: > > > My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. > > When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which > they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). > > How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? > > -- > Cathy Vallevieni > 714 389-6374 Home > 714 227-4948 Cell > > > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > > > -- > -- > > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > -- Pete B -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
This is how I deal with this situation, I'm not saying its correct. I generally use the birth names, first and last, as the inputted name and then I use the AKA for the variations of the names, first and last. When I say birth name I am referring to the earliest record of the person...or...the name most commonly used. Thanks. Linda Dean On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 8:22 AM Kathy Almquist wrote: > I would add here also that MANY of the spellings on ship passenger lists, > census records, etc. were simply spelling variations! Many immigrants > didn't know how to spell their name, or the person taking the information > spelled it as they heard it! There really weren't many back then that > knew spelling as we do today! > > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:04 AM Ward Walker wrote: > >> Christopher, >> >> That could be helpful. Could you elaborate? I looked for a reference to >> the ‘Passenger Arrival Lists’ on the Ellis Island web site but did not find >> it. Do you know what became of these ledgers? What were they used for? Did >> they really have an impact on how the immigrant was named, once settled in >> their destination community? Were they used during the naturalization >> process? I see that what FamilySearch.org calls a ‘New York Passenger >> Arrival List’ is just a ship manifest. And additional googling for >> ‘passenger arrival lists’ also turns up only ship manifests. >> >>Ward >> >> *From:* Christopher Seward Sr. >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 24, 2019 3:33 PM >> *To:* mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup >> *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated >> >> >> And those manifests were used to fill out Passenger Arrival Lists (what I >> and others refer to as ledgers). This comes directly from the Ellis Island >> website. >> >> I'm not sure why people are so passionate about stating that these errors >> never happened, when indeed they did, even according to those who made them. >> >> This should be about encouraging people to be creative about their >> research, not limiting it. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Christopher (genealogist for 40+ years) >> On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: >> >> >> >> First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made >> in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change >> themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have >> done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to >> use the new spelling. >> >> I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks >> like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the >> one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the source (census, birth >> record, marriage record, etc) for each individual time you find the name. >> Then use the other name in database. >> >> Marie >> >> Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus >> __ __ __ >> CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for >> Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified >> genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is >> registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. >> In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> cathyv...@cox.net writes: >> >> >> My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. >> >> When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which >> they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). >> >> How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? >> >> -- >> Cathy Vallevieni >> 714 389-6374 Home >> 714 227-4948 Cell >> >> -- >> >> LegacyUserGroup mailing list >> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com >> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe >> http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com >> Archives at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ >> >> >> -- >> -- >> >> -- >> >> LegacyUserGroup mailing list >> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com >> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe >> http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com >> Archives at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ >> > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > -- Think green before printing this email. Thanks. -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
I would add here also that MANY of the spellings on ship passenger lists, census records, etc. were simply spelling variations! Many immigrants didn't know how to spell their name, or the person taking the information spelled it as they heard it! There really weren't many back then that knew spelling as we do today! On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:04 AM Ward Walker wrote: > Christopher, > > That could be helpful. Could you elaborate? I looked for a reference to > the ‘Passenger Arrival Lists’ on the Ellis Island web site but did not find > it. Do you know what became of these ledgers? What were they used for? Did > they really have an impact on how the immigrant was named, once settled in > their destination community? Were they used during the naturalization > process? I see that what FamilySearch.org calls a ‘New York Passenger > Arrival List’ is just a ship manifest. And additional googling for > ‘passenger arrival lists’ also turns up only ship manifests. > >Ward > > *From:* Christopher Seward Sr. > *Sent:* Sunday, November 24, 2019 3:33 PM > *To:* mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup > *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated > > > And those manifests were used to fill out Passenger Arrival Lists (what I > and others refer to as ledgers). This comes directly from the Ellis Island > website. > > I'm not sure why people are so passionate about stating that these errors > never happened, when indeed they did, even according to those who made them. > > This should be about encouraging people to be creative about their > research, not limiting it. > > Thanks, > > Christopher (genealogist for 40+ years) > On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: > > > > First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made > in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change > themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have > done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to > use the new spelling. > > I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks > like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the > one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the source (census, birth > record, marriage record, etc) for each individual time you find the name. > Then use the other name in database. > > Marie > > Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus > __ __ __ > CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for > Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified > genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is > registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. > In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, > cathyv...@cox.net writes: > > > My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. > > When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which > they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). > > How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? > > -- > Cathy Vallevieni > 714 389-6374 Home > 714 227-4948 Cell > > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > > > -- > -- > > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
Christopher, That could be helpful. Could you elaborate? I looked for a reference to the ‘Passenger Arrival Lists’ on the Ellis Island web site but did not find it. Do you know what became of these ledgers? What were they used for? Did they really have an impact on how the immigrant was named, once settled in their destination community? Were they used during the naturalization process? I see that what FamilySearch.org calls a ‘New York Passenger Arrival List’ is just a ship manifest. And additional googling for ‘passenger arrival lists’ also turns up only ship manifests. Ward From: Christopher Seward Sr. Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 3:33 PM To: mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated And those manifests were used to fill out Passenger Arrival Lists (what I and others refer to as ledgers). This comes directly from the Ellis Island website. I'm not sure why people are so passionate about stating that these errors never happened, when indeed they did, even according to those who made them. This should be about encouraging people to be creative about their research, not limiting it. Thanks, Christopher (genealogist for 40+ years) On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to use the new spelling. I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in database. Marie Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus __ __ __ CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, cathyv...@cox.net writes: My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? -- Cathy Vallevieni 714 389-6374 Home 714 227-4948 Cell -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ -- -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated ;-)
In addition to the widespread illiteracy of the time, paper to record information was considered an expensive luxury. For people struggling to pay for the basic necessities of living maintaining family records was not very important. Spelling of a name, birth and death dates, etc. were well down the list in relative importance. The family bible became an key site to record family data. Dean Adams On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:44 PM Jane Linkswiler wrote: > As I understand it, Thomas Jefferson used to see how many different ways > he could spell words. Spelling was not standardized til the mid 1800’s. > > > > Til I heard that, I used to be s proud of my spelling…. > > > > Jane in Phoenix > > > > *From:* LegacyUserGroup *On > Behalf Of *Linda Greethurst > *Sent:* Sunday, November 24, 2019 6:21 AM > *To:* Legacy User Group > *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated ;-) > > > > When I started my genealogical research many years ago, I was told to > ignore spelling (one s or double s; D or T; -son or -sen; kn or just n; > etc). Say the name out loud - if it sounds familiar, consider it and > research it. Best lesson I learned. > > The reason was that the average person before 1880 usually got no more > than an 8th grade education and more likely only 5th grade. Spelling was > not a top priority. Don't get hung up on spelling and which version is > correct. > > Sure enough - I have a legal document with the main person's surname > spelled 5 different ways. > > Linda > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > -- Dean -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated ;-)
As I understand it, Thomas Jefferson used to see how many different ways he could spell words. Spelling was not standardized til the mid 1800’s. Til I heard that, I used to be s proud of my spelling…. Jane in Phoenix From: LegacyUserGroup On Behalf Of Linda Greethurst Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 6:21 AM To: Legacy User Group Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated ;-) When I started my genealogical research many years ago, I was told to ignore spelling (one s or double s; D or T; -son or -sen; kn or just n; etc). Say the name out loud - if it sounds familiar, consider it and research it. Best lesson I learned. The reason was that the average person before 1880 usually got no more than an 8th grade education and more likely only 5th grade. Spelling was not a top priority. Don't get hung up on spelling and which version is correct. Sure enough - I have a legal document with the main person's surname spelled 5 different ways. Linda -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
And those manifests were used to fill out Passenger Arrival Lists (what I and others refer to as ledgers). This comes directly from the Ellis Island website. I'm not sure why people are so passionate about stating that these errors never happened, when indeed they did, even according to those who made them. This should be about encouraging people to be creative about their research, not limiting it. Thanks, Christopher (genealogist for 40+ years) On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to use the new spelling. I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in database. Marie Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus __ __ __ CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, cathyv...@cox.net writes: My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? -- Cathy Vallevieni 714 389-6374 Home 714 227-4948 Cell -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
One of my grandmother's uncles and his family were on the manifest as the name of his brother-in-law - presumably because HE had paid for the ticket which was picked up in Liverpool before they left that port for New York (and then Benton Harbor, MI). He had his Russian passport (in Cyrillic) and baptism documents for the children, and all was correct with respect to first names and ages - just not the SURNAME!. They NEVER changed their name to the one on the manifest. But, since they didn't understand English and had a ticket in hand with a name on it, and the manifest was created by the ticket agent or shipping agent with that name, how could they question what was there? Stories abound - and most of them fiction. But does make it difficult to find them if there are other stories like this one! Helen Gillespie On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 1:52 PM Ward Walker wrote: > First, regarding Legacy, I agree with making the birth name the primary > name, unless the birth document had a clearly obvious error on it. > > Regarding Ellis Island, I am puzzled by one thing. Before modern times, I > have never seen any evidence of a document being given to the immigrant or > a > document being registered with the government. I'm thinking especially of > the 1895-1905 time frame. What constituted a legal name? Is it possible > that > some inspectors strongly suggested (verbally or on a scrap of paper) to > the > immigrant that they should use an Americanized name, but that it was then > up > to the immigrant to institute that later upon settling into their > community? > Initially, that might be done with such things the annual city > directories, > the school system, marriage records, censuses, and eventually tax forms > and > naturalization. In other words, by what specific mechanism could the > immigration inspector force a name change on an immigrant at Ellis Island? > > My own anecdotes: > - My relatives' Italian surnames and given names varied with each year > of > the city directory, sometimes Anglicized and sometimes not. > - In one family, the surname of the children was changed by the > teachers, > and that stuck, but their father stubbornly refused to change his own name. > >Ward > > -Original Message- > From: Christopher Seward Sr. > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 8:49 PM > To: legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated > > The first one you listed is the one that mentions that the Inspectors > would make changes of what they perceived to be errors. You've made my > point. > The others you listed are articles by people who have made the same > assumptions you made. I have interviewed people who came through Ellis > Island who have told me these stories. One Carlo Pietropinto, who had > his name changed by one of the inspectors whose assumed that his named > was really Carlos Pietro Pinto. His family in Italy is known as > Pietropinto. His family here in the US is known as Pinto. Clearly > (because he told me) not his choice. > > I can also point to a family (I interviewed them personally) who came > through EI. There names where Salvatore, Nicola, Antonetta, > Pasqualina. The inspectors tried to encourage them to change there > names to Samuel, Ncholas, Anna, and Pauline. They refused. > > These this did indeed go on. I'm not sure why so many people suspend > belief in facts and refuse to believe that people at Ellis Island could > possibly make mistakes. It is very important in the Genealogy world > that we not rule out such possibilities, and understand that the > surnames they are looking for could have been changed at Ellis Island. > Encourage them to look at that possibility and think maybe they should > look for different surnames than the ones they are hitting roadblocks on. > > You can point to all the blogs you want, but I will take it from those > who were there, and saw this first hand, and told me with their own > tongues. > > I mean no disrespect. I just think that trying to deny that this > actually happened can discourage people from doing a more creative > search to find ancestors that they might not otherwise find. > > Christopher > > On 11/23/2019 3:16 PM, Laura Johnson wrote: > > the so called ledgers were the ships manifests - those were done at the > > port of departure. > > > > Here are a few good articles to let you know what really happened > > > > > https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/ > > > > https://www.genealogy.com/articles/research/88_donna.html > > > > https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
First, regarding Legacy, I agree with making the birth name the primary name, unless the birth document had a clearly obvious error on it. Regarding Ellis Island, I am puzzled by one thing. Before modern times, I have never seen any evidence of a document being given to the immigrant or a document being registered with the government. I'm thinking especially of the 1895-1905 time frame. What constituted a legal name? Is it possible that some inspectors strongly suggested (verbally or on a scrap of paper) to the immigrant that they should use an Americanized name, but that it was then up to the immigrant to institute that later upon settling into their community? Initially, that might be done with such things the annual city directories, the school system, marriage records, censuses, and eventually tax forms and naturalization. In other words, by what specific mechanism could the immigration inspector force a name change on an immigrant at Ellis Island? My own anecdotes: - My relatives' Italian surnames and given names varied with each year of the city directory, sometimes Anglicized and sometimes not. - In one family, the surname of the children was changed by the teachers, and that stuck, but their father stubbornly refused to change his own name. Ward -Original Message- From: Christopher Seward Sr. Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 8:49 PM To: legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated The first one you listed is the one that mentions that the Inspectors would make changes of what they perceived to be errors. You've made my point. The others you listed are articles by people who have made the same assumptions you made. I have interviewed people who came through Ellis Island who have told me these stories. One Carlo Pietropinto, who had his name changed by one of the inspectors whose assumed that his named was really Carlos Pietro Pinto. His family in Italy is known as Pietropinto. His family here in the US is known as Pinto. Clearly (because he told me) not his choice. I can also point to a family (I interviewed them personally) who came through EI. There names where Salvatore, Nicola, Antonetta, Pasqualina. The inspectors tried to encourage them to change there names to Samuel, Ncholas, Anna, and Pauline. They refused. These this did indeed go on. I'm not sure why so many people suspend belief in facts and refuse to believe that people at Ellis Island could possibly make mistakes. It is very important in the Genealogy world that we not rule out such possibilities, and understand that the surnames they are looking for could have been changed at Ellis Island. Encourage them to look at that possibility and think maybe they should look for different surnames than the ones they are hitting roadblocks on. You can point to all the blogs you want, but I will take it from those who were there, and saw this first hand, and told me with their own tongues. I mean no disrespect. I just think that trying to deny that this actually happened can discourage people from doing a more creative search to find ancestors that they might not otherwise find. Christopher On 11/23/2019 3:16 PM, Laura Johnson wrote: the so called ledgers were the ships manifests - those were done at the port of departure. Here are a few good articles to let you know what really happened https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/ https://www.genealogy.com/articles/research/88_donna.html https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/04/29/ellis-island-names/ On 11/23/2019 3:06 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. wrote: Marie, I would disagree with that first statement. In my years of doing research, I have heard stories where the workers at Ellis Island entered names into the ledgers incorrectly. If they were unable to discern the name from the ships manifest, they would of write down the names as THEY understood the passengers. I have examples in my own family where a Braun from Prussia was listed as Brown because the person at intake determined that the immigrant should "Americanize" their name. As for the second part of your statement...I agree. I do believe that the AKA field i the best place to notate that. Ciao, Christopher On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to use the new spelling. I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the one used in the US, y
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated ;-)
Fine and dandy to say it out loud. Try saying Snoddy and see it written down as Snotty, which is why I always spell it S as in Sam, N as in Norman, O as in Oscar, D as in David, D as in David and Y which needs no comparison. Spell it S N O double D Y and see it written as Snowdy. On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:22 AM Linda Greethurst wrote: > When I started my genealogical research many years ago, I was told to > ignore spelling (one s or double s; D or T; -son or -sen; kn or just n; > etc). Say the name out loud - if it sounds familiar, consider it and > research it. Best lesson I learned. > The reason was that the average person before 1880 usually got no more > than an 8th grade education and more likely only 5th grade. Spelling was > not a top priority. Don't get hung up on spelling and which version is > correct. > Sure enough - I have a legal document with the main person's surname > spelled 5 different ways. > Linda > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated ;-)
Excellent advice, Linda! On 11/24/2019 7:21 AM, Linda Greethurst wrote: When I started my genealogical research many years ago, I was told to ignore spelling (one s or double s; D or T; -son or -sen; kn or just n; etc). Say the name out loud - if it sounds familiar, consider it and research it. Best lesson I learned. The reason was that the average person before 1880 usually got no more than an 8th grade education and more likely only 5th grade. Spelling was not a top priority. Don't get hung up on spelling and which version is correct. Sure enough - I have a legal document with the main person's surname spelled 5 different ways. Linda -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated ;-)
When I started my genealogical research many years ago, I was told to ignore spelling (one s or double s; D or T; -son or -sen; kn or just n; etc). Say the name out loud - if it sounds familiar, consider it and research it. Best lesson I learned. The reason was that the average person before 1880 usually got no more than an 8th grade education and more likely only 5th grade. Spelling was not a top priority. Don't get hung up on spelling and which version is correct. Sure enough - I have a legal document with the main person's surname spelled 5 different ways. Linda -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated ;-)
152 WAYS TO SPELL SULLIVAN Interesting range of experiences reported on this topic, and good advice to use Legacy's AKA option; and I'll add this to the pot. Several years ago my friend Hugh Sullivan made a list of "152 ways to spell Sullivan." all taken from actual records. I posted it on the bulletin board at my Family History Center as my response to "Oh, OUR family has ALWAYS spelled our name THIS way." -- > > > > > > > > > > -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
Also, my grandfather and his brothers told me that when they arrived at Ellis Island, they told the inspectors to "spell our name American" so it was changed from Jochman to Yohman (pronounced the same). Dan Yohman On Saturday, November 23, 2019, 08:50:46 PM EST, Christopher Seward Sr. wrote: The first one you listed is the one that mentions that the Inspectors would make changes of what they perceived to be errors. You've made my point. The others you listed are articles by people who have made the same assumptions you made. I have interviewed people who came through Ellis Island who have told me these stories. One Carlo Pietropinto, who had his name changed by one of the inspectors whose assumed that his named was really Carlos Pietro Pinto. His family in Italy is known as Pietropinto. His family here in the US is known as Pinto. Clearly (because he told me) not his choice. I can also point to a family (I interviewed them personally) who came through EI. There names where Salvatore, Nicola, Antonetta, Pasqualina. The inspectors tried to encourage them to change there names to Samuel, Ncholas, Anna, and Pauline. They refused. These this did indeed go on. I'm not sure why so many people suspend belief in facts and refuse to believe that people at Ellis Island could possibly make mistakes. It is very important in the Genealogy world that we not rule out such possibilities, and understand that the surnames they are looking for could have been changed at Ellis Island. Encourage them to look at that possibility and think maybe they should look for different surnames than the ones they are hitting roadblocks on. You can point to all the blogs you want, but I will take it from those who were there, and saw this first hand, and told me with their own tongues. I mean no disrespect. I just think that trying to deny that this actually happened can discourage people from doing a more creative search to find ancestors that they might not otherwise find. Christopher On 11/23/2019 3:16 PM, Laura Johnson wrote: > the so called ledgers were the ships manifests - those were done at > the port of departure. > > Here are a few good articles to let you know what really happened > > https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/ > > > > https://www.genealogy.com/articles/research/88_donna.html > > https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island > > https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/04/29/ellis-island-names/ > > > On 11/23/2019 3:06 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. wrote: >> >> Marie, >> >> I would disagree with that first statement. In my years of doing >> research, I have heard stories where the workers at Ellis Island >> entered names into the ledgers incorrectly. If they were unable to >> discern the name from the ships manifest, they would of write down >> the names as THEY understood the passengers. I have examples in my >> own family where a Braun from Prussia was listed as Brown because the >> person at intake determined that the immigrant should "Americanize" >> their name. >> >> As for the second part of your statement...I agree. I do believe >> that the AKA field i the best place to notate that. >> >> Ciao, >> Christopher >> >> On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: >>> >>> >>> First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were >>> made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the >>> change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. >>> They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely >>> they just started to use the new spelling. >>> >>> I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it >>> looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in >>> Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the >>> source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each >>> individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in database. >>> >>> Marie >>> >>> Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus >>> __ __ __ >>> CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for >>> Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified >>> genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board >>> name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. >>> In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>> cathyv...@cox.net writes: >>> >>> My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. >>> >>> When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni >>> which >>> they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). >>> >>> How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? >>> >>> -- Cathy Vallevieni >>> 714 389-6374 Home >>> 714 227-4948
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
The first one you listed is the one that mentions that the Inspectors would make changes of what they perceived to be errors. You've made my point. The others you listed are articles by people who have made the same assumptions you made. I have interviewed people who came through Ellis Island who have told me these stories. One Carlo Pietropinto, who had his name changed by one of the inspectors whose assumed that his named was really Carlos Pietro Pinto. His family in Italy is known as Pietropinto. His family here in the US is known as Pinto. Clearly (because he told me) not his choice. I can also point to a family (I interviewed them personally) who came through EI. There names where Salvatore, Nicola, Antonetta, Pasqualina. The inspectors tried to encourage them to change there names to Samuel, Ncholas, Anna, and Pauline. They refused. These this did indeed go on. I'm not sure why so many people suspend belief in facts and refuse to believe that people at Ellis Island could possibly make mistakes. It is very important in the Genealogy world that we not rule out such possibilities, and understand that the surnames they are looking for could have been changed at Ellis Island. Encourage them to look at that possibility and think maybe they should look for different surnames than the ones they are hitting roadblocks on. You can point to all the blogs you want, but I will take it from those who were there, and saw this first hand, and told me with their own tongues. I mean no disrespect. I just think that trying to deny that this actually happened can discourage people from doing a more creative search to find ancestors that they might not otherwise find. Christopher On 11/23/2019 3:16 PM, Laura Johnson wrote: the so called ledgers were the ships manifests - those were done at the port of departure. Here are a few good articles to let you know what really happened https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/ https://www.genealogy.com/articles/research/88_donna.html https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/04/29/ellis-island-names/ On 11/23/2019 3:06 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. wrote: Marie, I would disagree with that first statement. In my years of doing research, I have heard stories where the workers at Ellis Island entered names into the ledgers incorrectly. If they were unable to discern the name from the ships manifest, they would of write down the names as THEY understood the passengers. I have examples in my own family where a Braun from Prussia was listed as Brown because the person at intake determined that the immigrant should "Americanize" their name. As for the second part of your statement...I agree. I do believe that the AKA field i the best place to notate that. Ciao, Christopher On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to use the new spelling. I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in database. Marie Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus __ __ __ CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, cathyv...@cox.net writes: My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? -- Cathy Vallevieni 714 389-6374 Home 714 227-4948 Cell -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at:
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
The find I made was in Ancestry. The Drouin Collection had my father's surname down as Schuster although it was correctly spelled in the register of the Catholic parish where my parents, Louisa Snoddy and Robert Schwalm, were married. Another hilarious one was in the 1911 Canadian Census. The wife's and the daughter's names shown with my grandfather Solomon Snoddy were shown as Catherine and Bridget who were the wife and daughter of a neighbour (my grandmother's name was Clara and my mother's was Louisa). However, the years of birth differed: my grandmother was born in 1887 and my mother in 1910 while the neighbour's wife was born in 1870 and his daughter in 1895! My aunt and I figured that perhaps the census taker had had a hard day (written the information down on pieces of paper?) and transcribed into the census ledger after having a drink or two! On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 6:34 PM Chris Hill wrote: > And it happened elsewhere. I found a family in Cornwall, UK with 14 > different spellings spread across Census and BMD records - damn difficult > tracking them down. > > Regards > > Chris > > From my Motorola G6+ > > On Sat, 23 Nov 2019, 23:05 Roberta Schwalm, > wrote: > >> I've seen a few dillies myself. My father's surname was Schwalm but I >> have seen it written as Schwaten! His mother's maiden name was Jung but on >> her record of marriage it is entered as Yung because of the way the German >> "J" is pronounced. >> >> As for my mother's Snoddy side of the family, although the correct >> spelling is Snoddy, I have seen it as Snoddie, Snowdy, Snowddy. >> >> I guess it all depended on how the person recording the names understood >> them as a great many people, even in the early 1900s were illiterate and >> neither knew how to read nor write. >> >> Roberta Schwalm >> >> On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 4:43 PM Cathy Vallevieni >> wrote: >> >>> Thank you all for the input. I now know how to properly enter both >>> surnames. >>> >>> Thank you, Laura, for sending the links. I will check them out. >>> >>> Cathy Vallevieni >>> 714 389-6374 Home >>> 714 227-4948 Cell >>> >>> On 11/23/2019 1:16 PM, Laura Johnson wrote: >>> > the so called ledgers were the ships manifests - those were done at >>> > the port of departure. >>> > >>> > Here are a few good articles to let you know what really happened >>> > >>> > >>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/ >>> > >>> > >>> > https://www.genealogy.com/articles/research/88_donna.html >>> > >>> > https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island >>> > >>> > https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/04/29/ellis-island-names/ >>> > >>> > >>> > On 11/23/2019 3:06 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Marie, >>> >> >>> >> I would disagree with that first statement. In my years of doing >>> >> research, I have heard stories where the workers at Ellis Island >>> >> entered names into the ledgers incorrectly. If they were unable to >>> >> discern the name from the ships manifest, they would of write down >>> >> the names as THEY understood the passengers. I have examples in my >>> >> own family where a Braun from Prussia was listed as Brown because the >>> >> person at intake determined that the immigrant should "Americanize" >>> >> their name. >>> >> >>> >> As for the second part of your statement...I agree. I do believe >>> >> that the AKA field i the best place to notate that. >>> >> >>> >> Ciao, >>> >> Christopher >>> >> >>> >> On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were >>> >>> made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the >>> >>> change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. >>> >>> They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely >>> >>> they just started to use the new spelling. >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it >>> >>> looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in >>> >>> Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the >>> >>> source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each >>> >>> individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in >>> database. >>> >>> >>> >>> Marie >>> >>> >>> >>> Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus >>> >>> __ __ __ >>> >>> CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for >>> >>> Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified >>> >>> genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board >>> >>> name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. >>> >>> In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>> >>> cathyv...@cox.net writes: >>> >>> >>> >>> My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
And it happened elsewhere. I found a family in Cornwall, UK with 14 different spellings spread across Census and BMD records - damn difficult tracking them down. Regards Chris >From my Motorola G6+ On Sat, 23 Nov 2019, 23:05 Roberta Schwalm, wrote: > I've seen a few dillies myself. My father's surname was Schwalm but I > have seen it written as Schwaten! His mother's maiden name was Jung but on > her record of marriage it is entered as Yung because of the way the German > "J" is pronounced. > > As for my mother's Snoddy side of the family, although the correct > spelling is Snoddy, I have seen it as Snoddie, Snowdy, Snowddy. > > I guess it all depended on how the person recording the names understood > them as a great many people, even in the early 1900s were illiterate and > neither knew how to read nor write. > > Roberta Schwalm > > On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 4:43 PM Cathy Vallevieni > wrote: > >> Thank you all for the input. I now know how to properly enter both >> surnames. >> >> Thank you, Laura, for sending the links. I will check them out. >> >> Cathy Vallevieni >> 714 389-6374 Home >> 714 227-4948 Cell >> >> On 11/23/2019 1:16 PM, Laura Johnson wrote: >> > the so called ledgers were the ships manifests - those were done at >> > the port of departure. >> > >> > Here are a few good articles to let you know what really happened >> > >> > >> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/ >> > >> > >> > https://www.genealogy.com/articles/research/88_donna.html >> > >> > https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island >> > >> > https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/04/29/ellis-island-names/ >> > >> > >> > On 11/23/2019 3:06 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. wrote: >> >> >> >> Marie, >> >> >> >> I would disagree with that first statement. In my years of doing >> >> research, I have heard stories where the workers at Ellis Island >> >> entered names into the ledgers incorrectly. If they were unable to >> >> discern the name from the ships manifest, they would of write down >> >> the names as THEY understood the passengers. I have examples in my >> >> own family where a Braun from Prussia was listed as Brown because the >> >> person at intake determined that the immigrant should "Americanize" >> >> their name. >> >> >> >> As for the second part of your statement...I agree. I do believe >> >> that the AKA field i the best place to notate that. >> >> >> >> Ciao, >> >> Christopher >> >> >> >> On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were >> >>> made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the >> >>> change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. >> >>> They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely >> >>> they just started to use the new spelling. >> >>> >> >>> I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it >> >>> looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in >> >>> Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the >> >>> source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each >> >>> individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in >> database. >> >>> >> >>> Marie >> >>> >> >>> Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus >> >>> __ __ __ >> >>> CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for >> >>> Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified >> >>> genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board >> >>> name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. >> >>> In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> >>> cathyv...@cox.net writes: >> >>> >> >>> My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. >> >>> >> >>> When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni >> >>> which >> >>> they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). >> >>> >> >>> How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? >> >>> >> >>> -- Cathy Vallevieni >> >>> 714 389-6374 Home >> >>> 714 227-4948 Cell >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> LegacyUserGroup mailing list >> >>> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com >> >>> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe >> >>> >> http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com >> >>> Archives at: >> >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> > >> >> -- >> >> LegacyUserGroup mailing list >> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com >> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe >> http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com >> Archives at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ >> > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list >
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
I've seen a few dillies myself. My father's surname was Schwalm but I have seen it written as Schwaten! His mother's maiden name was Jung but on her record of marriage it is entered as Yung because of the way the German "J" is pronounced. As for my mother's Snoddy side of the family, although the correct spelling is Snoddy, I have seen it as Snoddie, Snowdy, Snowddy. I guess it all depended on how the person recording the names understood them as a great many people, even in the early 1900s were illiterate and neither knew how to read nor write. Roberta Schwalm On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 4:43 PM Cathy Vallevieni wrote: > Thank you all for the input. I now know how to properly enter both > surnames. > > Thank you, Laura, for sending the links. I will check them out. > > Cathy Vallevieni > 714 389-6374 Home > 714 227-4948 Cell > > On 11/23/2019 1:16 PM, Laura Johnson wrote: > > the so called ledgers were the ships manifests - those were done at > > the port of departure. > > > > Here are a few good articles to let you know what really happened > > > > > https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/ > > > > > > https://www.genealogy.com/articles/research/88_donna.html > > > > https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island > > > > https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/04/29/ellis-island-names/ > > > > > > On 11/23/2019 3:06 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. wrote: > >> > >> Marie, > >> > >> I would disagree with that first statement. In my years of doing > >> research, I have heard stories where the workers at Ellis Island > >> entered names into the ledgers incorrectly. If they were unable to > >> discern the name from the ships manifest, they would of write down > >> the names as THEY understood the passengers. I have examples in my > >> own family where a Braun from Prussia was listed as Brown because the > >> person at intake determined that the immigrant should "Americanize" > >> their name. > >> > >> As for the second part of your statement...I agree. I do believe > >> that the AKA field i the best place to notate that. > >> > >> Ciao, > >> Christopher > >> > >> On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were > >>> made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the > >>> change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. > >>> They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely > >>> they just started to use the new spelling. > >>> > >>> I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it > >>> looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in > >>> Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the > >>> source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each > >>> individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in database. > >>> > >>> Marie > >>> > >>> Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus > >>> __ __ __ > >>> CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for > >>> Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified > >>> genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board > >>> name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. > >>> In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >>> cathyv...@cox.net writes: > >>> > >>> My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. > >>> > >>> When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni > >>> which > >>> they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). > >>> > >>> How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? > >>> > >>> -- Cathy Vallevieni > >>> 714 389-6374 Home > >>> 714 227-4948 Cell > >>> > >>> -- > >>> LegacyUserGroup mailing list > >>> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > >>> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > >>> > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > >>> Archives at: > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
Thank you all for the input. I now know how to properly enter both surnames. Thank you, Laura, for sending the links. I will check them out. Cathy Vallevieni 714 389-6374 Home 714 227-4948 Cell On 11/23/2019 1:16 PM, Laura Johnson wrote: the so called ledgers were the ships manifests - those were done at the port of departure. Here are a few good articles to let you know what really happened https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/ https://www.genealogy.com/articles/research/88_donna.html https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/04/29/ellis-island-names/ On 11/23/2019 3:06 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. wrote: Marie, I would disagree with that first statement. In my years of doing research, I have heard stories where the workers at Ellis Island entered names into the ledgers incorrectly. If they were unable to discern the name from the ships manifest, they would of write down the names as THEY understood the passengers. I have examples in my own family where a Braun from Prussia was listed as Brown because the person at intake determined that the immigrant should "Americanize" their name. As for the second part of your statement...I agree. I do believe that the AKA field i the best place to notate that. Ciao, Christopher On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to use the new spelling. I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in database. Marie Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus __ __ __ CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, cathyv...@cox.net writes: My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? -- Cathy Vallevieni 714 389-6374 Home 714 227-4948 Cell -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
You're entitled. I will say that I have interviewed people who will attest to my statements. Also, an investigative article by the Smithsonian found that inspectors would sometimes correct what they felt to be spelling errors on the ships' manifests. If they admitted that they did it, I will assume that it happened. On 11/23/2019 3:13 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: orry, but I disagree with that statement. The people at Ellis Island only checked off the names. The names were entered at the departure. The time that Ellis Island staff entered the names where as detained aliens. The manifest's were made -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
the so called ledgers were the ships manifests - those were done at the port of departure. Here are a few good articles to let you know what really happened https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/ https://www.genealogy.com/articles/research/88_donna.html https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/04/29/ellis-island-names/ On 11/23/2019 3:06 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. wrote: Marie, I would disagree with that first statement. In my years of doing research, I have heard stories where the workers at Ellis Island entered names into the ledgers incorrectly. If they were unable to discern the name from the ships manifest, they would of write down the names as THEY understood the passengers. I have examples in my own family where a Braun from Prussia was listed as Brown because the person at intake determined that the immigrant should "Americanize" their name. As for the second part of your statement...I agree. I do believe that the AKA field i the best place to notate that. Ciao, Christopher On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to use the new spelling. I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in database. Marie Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus __ __ __ CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, cathyv...@cox.net writes: My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? -- Cathy Vallevieni 714 389-6374 Home 714 227-4948 Cell -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
Sorry, but I disagree with that statement. The people at Ellis Island only checked off the names. The names were entered at the departure. The time that Ellis Island staff entered the names where as detained aliens. The manifest's were made up at the place of departure so if the name was changed it was there. Marie Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus __ __ __ CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office.In a message dated 11/23/2019 4:06:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, csewar...@gmail.com writes: Marie, I would disagree with that first statement. In my years of doing research, I have heard stories where the workers at Ellis Island entered names into the ledgers incorrectly. If they were unable to discern the name from the ships manifest, they would of write down the names as THEY understood the passengers. I have examples in my own family where a Braun from Prussia was listed as Brown because the person at intake determined that the immigrant should "Americanize" their name. As for the second part of your statement...I agree. I do believe that the AKA field i the best place to notate that. Ciao, Christopher On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to use the new spelling. I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in database. Marie Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus __ __ __ CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office.In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, cathyv...@cox.net writes: My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni whichthey used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? --Cathy Vallevieni714 389-6374 Home714 227-4948 Cell -- LegacyUserGroup mailing listLegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.comTo manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.comArchives at:http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
Marie, I would disagree with that first statement. In my years of doing research, I have heard stories where the workers at Ellis Island entered names into the ledgers incorrectly. If they were unable to discern the name from the ships manifest, they would of write down the names as THEY understood the passengers. I have examples in my own family where a Braun from Prussia was listed as Brown because the person at intake determined that the immigrant should "Americanize" their name. As for the second part of your statement...I agree. I do believe that the AKA field i the best place to notate that. Ciao, Christopher On 11/23/2019 2:56 PM, mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup wrote: First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to use the new spelling. I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in database. Marie Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus __ __ __ CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, cathyv...@cox.net writes: My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? -- Cathy Vallevieni 714 389-6374 Home 714 227-4948 Cell -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
First, the name was not changed at Ellis Island. The manifests were made in the country that they departed from. They probably made the change themselves to make the name easier to pronounce and spell. They may have done it legally, [through the courts] but more likely they just started to use the new spelling. I'm using Legacy 8 and there is an AKA (4th logo from the right) it looks like a group of people. You can add the name that they used in Italy or the one used in the US, your choice. You can cite the source (census, birth record, marriage record, etc) for each individual time you find the name. Then use the other name in database. Marie Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus __ __ __ CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office.In a message dated 11/23/2019 2:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, cathyv...@cox.net writes: My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? -- Cathy Vallevieni714 389-6374 Home714 227-4948 Cell -- LegacyUserGroup mailing listLegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.comTo manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.comArchives at:http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
First - names were NOT changed at Ellis Island. The names on the manifests were from the port of departure. So if it was written as VAllevieni on the manifest, it is because it was written that way on the manifest. Second, I always record the birth/baptismal name as the correct names. All other names are then AKA's or Alias names and I document those name changes for where I found them On 11/23/2019 1:52 PM, Cathy Vallevieni wrote: My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
[LegacyUG] Surname Changed When Immigrated
My great grandfather had the surname Vallevegni in Italy. When the family immigrated to the U.S. it changed to Vallevieni which they used from then on (probably changed at Ellis Island). How should I enter 2 surnames in Legayc? -- Cathy Vallevieni 714 389-6374 Home 714 227-4948 Cell -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
