Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Triggering ShareAlike in Government
From: Kate Chapman [mailto:k...@maploser.com] Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] Triggering ShareAlike in Government Hi All, I have a question about what would trigger the ShareAlike in the context of government. Let's say for example a National Mapping Agency takes the OpenStreetMap road data for their area and then improves upon it. Those improvements are shared with the Ministry of the Environment. Is that redistribution? Crown copyright is one area where the law really varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Here if one ministry sent data to another I doubt it would be distribution - anything produced by either ministry is copyright by the Crown. On the other hand, if it was sent from a ministry to a crown corporation it would be. I'm not sure how this interacts with FOI laws either - although I may be asking the FOI commissioner some questions about copyright and FOI. However, it's worth considering the practical implications of if it is considered distribution. If it isn't, then both ministries are part of the same organization and either could release the changes under the SA license. If it is, then the second ministry could release the data under the SA license, so again either could release the changes under the SA license. In both cases, the effect is the same. The second paragraph of http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DistributeSubsidiary talks about how if moving a copy to a subsidiary is distribution it doesn't in practice matter. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Triggering ShareAlike in Government
In the case of the ODbL this would depend on the ownership and legal status of the mapping agency (actually it seems as if the ODbL has a tiny issue in that while parent-owned entity is considered non-public and ok, the other way around not, something for 1.1). I don't believe CC by-SA 2.0 has any such exemption and as I read it, any distribution, even non-public, triggers SA. However this would only start having consequences if the Ministry of the Environment was actually distributing the data further (if SA was triggered in the case of the ODbL the derived DB would have to be made available). IANAL Simon Am 18.06.2012 05:59, schrieb Kate Chapman: Hi All, I have a question about what would trigger the ShareAlike in the context of government. Let's say for example a National Mapping Agency takes the OpenStreetMap road data for their area and then improves upon it. Those improvements are shared with the Ministry of the Environment. Is that redistribution? Thanks, -Kate ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Triggering ShareAlike in Government
Hi, On 06/18/2012 05:59 AM, Kate Chapman wrote: I have a question about what would trigger the ShareAlike in the context of government. Let's say for example a National Mapping Agency takes the OpenStreetMap road data for their area and then improves upon it. Those improvements are shared with the Ministry of the Environment. Is that redistribution? First of all, any share-alike - with CC-By-SA as well as ODbL - only affects those who are in receipt of the derived work. So if the NMA gives a derived work to the ME, then *even if* that is considered distribution, the rights arising from share-alike are only granted to the ME, and not to the general public. (Same if you sell OSM derived databases, under old or new license - the customer gains share-alike rights but not a non-customer.) The interesting question is, and I don't know if Paul intended to hint at that with his FOI reference: What happens if the information is leaked, e.g. if the ME has to reveal the derived data as a result of a FOI request - does the recipient (who made the FOI request) then gain share-alike rights also? I presume they do but I'm not sure. Other kinds of leaks are possible; among UK government officials it is customary to lose notebooks and hard disks on trains. The GPL FAQ (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#TOCInternalDistribution) contains the question whether theft of previously un-relesed GPL software would trigger share-alike and the answer is no, because the sharing did not happen intentionally. The GPL FAQ also says that company-internal use is not distribution, but providing copies to off-site contractors is; if that were true for OSM, then if you made a PDF and emailed that to a print shop to make 20 copies for you that would already be distribution. (What happens of the MoD takes an OSM map, draws a little bit on top of it and stamps it secret - is that allowed at all, given that the current license requires that they must not add any restrictions to the material...?) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Triggering ShareAlike in Government
From: Frederik Ramm [mailto:frede...@remote.org] Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Triggering ShareAlike in Government Hi, The interesting question is, and I don't know if Paul intended to hint at that with his FOI reference: What happens if the information is leaked, e.g. if the ME has to reveal the derived data as a result of a FOI request - does the recipient (who made the FOI request) then gain share-alike rights also? I presume they do but I'm not sure. FOI and copyrights (or any kind of secrets) gets complicated. When you add in the complications from GIS data not being a well-explored area of copyright law it gets even murkier. So here you're combining FOI with copyright of GIS data with share-alike. As a local example, a contract that IBM entered into with the Crown locally (a copyrighted documented) was considered confidential by the contract. The FOI office disagreed, ordered its release, and a court case and some appeals later, it's now released under FOI. In this case the FOI requestors would be intending to report on the contents of it and copyright wouldn't interfere. With GIS data generally you want to use the data, not report on it. Other kinds of leaks are possible; among UK government officials it is customary to lose notebooks and hard disks on trains. The GPL FAQ (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0- faq.html#TOCInternalDistribution) contains the question whether theft of previously un-relesed GPL software would trigger share-alike and the answer is no, because the sharing did not happen intentionally. The GPL FAQ also says that company-internal use is not distribution, but providing copies to off-site contractors is; if that were true for OSM, then if you made a PDF and emailed that to a print shop to make 20 copies for you that would already be distribution. I'm not sure on that - I suspect it would depend on where you are, how the contracts with the contractors are worded, and if they can keep the materials. Contractors tend to be fairly free with documents supplied to them (e.g. manuals or instructions), reusing them internally. (What happens of the MoD takes an OSM map, draws a little bit on top of it and stamps it secret - is that allowed at all, given that the current license requires that they must not add any restrictions to the material...?) If they're not distributing - nothing. They don't need any permission from the copyright holder for that. If they distribute it, then they might be in trouble, but copyright might not apply here if it's the MoD - there are plenty of exemptions in most IP law for national security related reasons. You might be able to stop them from distributing it in another country, but in that other country the secret might have no effect. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Triggering ShareAlike in Government
Hi All, I have a question about what would trigger the ShareAlike in the context of government. Let's say for example a National Mapping Agency takes the OpenStreetMap road data for their area and then improves upon it. Those improvements are shared with the Ministry of the Environment. Is that redistribution? Thanks, -Kate ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Triggering ShareAlike in Government
Kate, Can you reverse this: how about if NMA will improve local OSM data and then MoE will use OpenStreetMap. Benefits for all, right? That is how we try to make it here in Finland. Well, National Land Survey of Finland is not improving OSM, but we (as OSMers) can improve OSM with their data. Rgs, Pekka Pekka Sarkola pekka.sark...@gispo.fi www.gispo.fi -Original Message- From: Kate Chapman [mailto:k...@maploser.com] Sent: 18. kesäkuuta 2012 6:59 To: Licensing and other legal discussions. Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] Triggering ShareAlike in Government Hi All, I have a question about what would trigger the ShareAlike in the context of government. Let's say for example a National Mapping Agency takes the OpenStreetMap road data for their area and then improves upon it. Those improvements are shared with the Ministry of the Environment. Is that redistribution? Thanks, -Kate ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Triggering ShareAlike in Government
Hi Pekka, I'm concerned specifically about the specifics of the licensing so I can speak to them, not the ideal situation. Yes when I present I do approach with explaining it is best if everyone contributes to the same map. I still need to know the specifics of the constraints of the license, since I often get asked questions. -Kate On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Pekka Sarkola pekka.sark...@gispo.fi wrote: Kate, Can you reverse this: how about if NMA will improve local OSM data and then MoE will use OpenStreetMap. Benefits for all, right? That is how we try to make it here in Finland. Well, National Land Survey of Finland is not improving OSM, but we (as OSMers) can improve OSM with their data. Rgs, Pekka Pekka Sarkola – pekka.sark...@gispo.fi – www.gispo.fi -Original Message- From: Kate Chapman [mailto:k...@maploser.com] Sent: 18. kesäkuuta 2012 6:59 To: Licensing and other legal discussions. Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] Triggering ShareAlike in Government Hi All, I have a question about what would trigger the ShareAlike in the context of government. Let's say for example a National Mapping Agency takes the OpenStreetMap road data for their area and then improves upon it. Those improvements are shared with the Ministry of the Environment. Is that redistribution? Thanks, -Kate ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
