Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Importing from an application's user generated content

[Michael Ledford]

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 2:33 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
> Frederik has already touched on most of the points, however
>
> - in the business model you outlined it is your data and it is your
> responsibility to be able to identify the individual sources of
> contributions, the wholesale removal would only apply if you cannot do
> that. Naturally you should actually contemplate how you would
> remove/revert such a contribution if the need arises (not "somebody else
> will clean it up" that is so popular).
>
> - non-legal: from a project perspective, OSM works best for contributors
> that experience first hand that what they just contributed is actually
> useful (contrary to being told by people with a vested interest that
> what you've done was useful, which you may or may not believe depending
> on how gullible you are, but I digress). It is an important part of
> getting hooked. At least it should be clear where their contributions
> are going to end up and integration with OSM proper should be as fast as
> possible.

Thank you for all the thoughts on this. I appreciate the time you all
took to consider and answer my questions. I will take this and
carefully consider if this is the direction I should go.

Cheers,
Michael

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Importing from an application's user generated content

[Michael Ledford]

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Share-alike means that you have to make your derived database available
> under ODbL on request. If you regularly make sure your database contents
> go into OSM then you could potentially say, if such a request occurs,
> "it's all in OSM", but it would be legally clearer if your database was
> simply available for download from your server somewhere.

I thought this might be an interesting approach as I actually read
about it in the wiki at

where it states:

"In other words, if you improve our data and then distribute it, you
need to share your improvements with the general public at no charge.
A painless way to do that is to contribute your improvements directly
back to OpenStreetMap."

> Legal concerns could arise if your users, while *claiming* to make you
> the owner of whatever they contribute, don't actually have the *right*
> to do that (because e.g. they copied the data from a copyrighted source).

In an application where the user is actually visiting the POI I'm not
concerned that they have copied the data from a copyrighted source.

> Worst case, if the data you upload contains copyrighted material and we
> cannot easily enough identify which of your data is tainted and which is
> ok, then *all* data you uploaded might have to be removed again.

And this is why I am asking as it seems like this might be a good
method to improve some data inside of OSM while also gaining benefit
from it myself. In this I'm trying to help OSM and not hurt it. It's a
shame that one could potentially improve the data and not be able to
actually contribute that back to OSM. I don't foresee people obtaining
an OSM account so that the POIs could be uploaded directly.

So am I to assume that I should stay away from this line of thinking?

Cheers,
Michael

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Importing from an application's user generated content

[Simon Poole]

Am 04.02.2016 um 04:07 schrieb Michael Ledford:
> ...
>> Worst case, if the data you upload contains copyrighted material and we
>> cannot easily enough identify which of your data is tainted and which is
>> ok, then *all* data you uploaded might have to be removed again.
> And this is why I am asking as it seems like this might be a good
> method to improve some data inside of OSM while also gaining benefit
> from it myself. In this I'm trying to help OSM and not hurt it. It's a
> shame that one could potentially improve the data and not be able to
> actually contribute that back to OSM. I don't foresee people obtaining
> an OSM account so that the POIs could be uploaded directly.
>
> So am I to assume that I should stay away from this line of thinking?
Frederik has already touched on most of the points, however

- in the business model you outlined it is your data and it is your
responsibility to be able to identify the individual sources of
contributions, the wholesale removal would only apply if you cannot do
that. Naturally you should actually contemplate how you would
remove/revert such a contribution if the need arises (not "somebody else
will clean it up" that is so popular).

- non-legal: from a project perspective, OSM works best for contributors
that experience first hand that what they just contributed is actually
useful (contrary to being told by people with a vested interest that
what you've done was useful, which you may or may not believe depending
on how gullible you are, but I digress). It is an important part of
getting hooked. At least it should be clear where their contributions
are going to end up and integration with OSM proper should be as fast as
possible.

Simon 



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[OSM-legal-talk] Importing from an application's user generated content

[Michael Ledford]

I'm interested in OSM POI data for use in an application. I want to
use it in the following manner. The user of the application will be
able to search for POIs and use them if present. If not present or
incorrect I would like to take that data, under the license agreement
of the application where the user relinquishes the ownership of this
specific data, and update my database with it. This improves the
database to other application users. I would then like to turn around
and use that information to update the OSM database on an ongoing
periodic basis. This improves OSM for all users. I believe that
updating the OSM database upholds share-alike. I do wonder if
frequency matters though and what is acceptable. Of course there will
be attribution for the data in the application. The concern I have
revolves around taking the user data and using that to update the OSM
database. Is there any problem with this under the contributor terms?
I believe at this point that I own the data and can then turn around
with little concern and update OSM with it but I want to make sure
that this is acceptable and there aren't any legal concerns for the
data being imported to OSM.

Cheers,
Michael

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Importing from an application's user generated content

[Frederik Ramm]

Michael,

On 01/28/2016 07:42 PM, Michael Ledford wrote:
> I believe that
> updating the OSM database upholds share-alike. 

Share-alike means that you have to make your derived database available
under ODbL on request. If you regularly make sure your database contents
go into OSM then you could potentially say, if such a request occurs,
"it's all in OSM", but it would be legally clearer if your database was
simply available for download from your server somewhere.

> The concern I have
> revolves around taking the user data and using that to update the OSM
> database. Is there any problem with this under the contributor terms?

Legal concerns could arise if your users, while *claiming* to make you
the owner of whatever they contribute, don't actually have the *right*
to do that (because e.g. they copied the data from a copyrighted source).

Generally, OSM wants to be able to identify constributors. I.e. if I see
a contribution from user X adding POI Y, I want to be able to write to
him "hey, are you sure that restaurant is named Benito's because I was
there a month ago and it was called Burritos". If your workflow
decouples mappers (your users) from their data (POIs you upload to us)
then it's more like an import and might be subject to more scrutiny. (Cf
imports mailing list.)

Worst case, if the data you upload contains copyrighted material and we
cannot easily enough identify which of your data is tainted and which is
ok, then *all* data you uploaded might have to be removed again.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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