[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #20 from Mike Kaganski  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #19)
> Don't think ctrl+click (apply style and clear formatting) is easy to
> understand. But surely it doesn't break existing workflows. I also wonder
> what formatting should be cleared:
> 
> in case of PS: DPS (acceptable) and CS and DF (-1)?
> in case of CS: DF (acceptable)

I agree that this is not a bad feature, seemingly not harming any workflow. I
second the suggestion to only clear paragraph direct formatting when
special-applying paragraph style, and clear character direct formatting when
special-applying character style. By the way, there are more styles ;-) - so
what to do with lists - do you want to clear that direct formatting when
special-applying paragraph style, or keep it, and only clear when
special-applying list style? Or clear it when special-applied paragraph style
contains associated list style?

> DPS: direct formatted paragraph style

Please, there's no such thing. There is paragraph direct formatting, and
character direct formatting. Or if you prefer, direct paragraph formatting, and
direct character formatting ;-) This depends on the level at which some
properties are defined. Direct formatting applied on paragraph level does *not*
create a "style".

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC|heiko.tietze@documentfounda |mikekagan...@hotmail.com
   |tion.org|

--- Comment #19 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Don't think ctrl+click (apply style and clear formatting) is easy to
understand. But surely it doesn't break existing workflows. I also wonder what
formatting should be cleared:

in case of PS: DPS (acceptable) and CS and DF (-1)?
in case of CS: DF (acceptable)

IMHO we have enough means to clean formatting. We should implement better
feedback with the styles highlighter (bug 38194, bug 106556, bug 34002) and
keep the interaction simple.

What do you think, Mike?

PS: paragraph style
DPS: direct formatted paragraph style
CS: character style
DF: direct formatting

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|high|medium

--- Comment #18 from Xisco Faulí  ---
Changing priority back to 'medium' since the number of duplicates is lower than
5

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

LibreTraining  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||libretraining.tutorials@gma
   ||il.com

--- Comment #16 from LibreTraining  ---
In Adobe InDesign you select insert the cursor in the paragraph:

- Click the style name, applies the paragraph style, and leaves any direct
formatting

OR

- Control+Click the style name, applies the paragraph style, and removes all
direct formatting

Very simple to learn and to use.

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks|102946  |107326


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102946
[Bug 102946] [META] Styles bugs and enhancements
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107326
[Bug 107326] [META] Writer style bugs and enhancements
-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||102946


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102946
[Bug 102946] [META] Styles bugs and enhancements
-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

Cor Nouws  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|medium  |high

--- Comment #15 from Cor Nouws  ---
still a good proposal. Bump it up a bit :)

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #14 from marshals  ---
my bug 102230 just got closed as a duplicate of this, and since this thread has
gone quiet i thought i'd add my 2c.

if i put the cursor in a text heading, right-click and chose "Edit Style...",
then add underlining, see the example text gain underlining, then chose OK and
not see my change take effect in the text, i'm going to assume there's a bug.

i appreciate the underlying issues are complex, but i definitely did not intend
for nothing to happen when i performed my actions.

if there is no agreement as to what should be applied[*], could Writer provide
a popup warning with enough info for the user to determine what their choices
are and how to achieve them?  (ie, how to get the formatting they're trying to
apply to be applied in whatever way they really want.)

[*] eg, the "Edit Style..." dialog could have a checkbox to indicate whether to
"merge or replace formatting" or somesuch.

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||simon.marsh...@misys.com

--- Comment #13 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 102230 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

Yousuf (Jay) Philips  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsUXEval
 CC||philip...@hotmail.com,
   ||tietze.he...@gmail.com,
   ||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu
  Component|ux-advise   |Writer

--- Comment #12 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips  ---
This is definitely a complex decision to make when deciding what the default
behaviour should be, as some users would want it one way and others would like
it another way, and even worse is that some users would want it one way one
time and another way another time. :D

As a basic style user, meaning i only use the styles that come preconfigured,
for me, i would expect that LO wouldnt overwrite/remove things that i have
specifically set. Like if i have set text using direct formatting, i would
dislike that applying a paragraph style would overwrite that direct formatting.

(In reply to Joel Madero from comment #9)
> I agree that case #2 (which seems to be the one you're referring to) is much
> more complex - although I think the dialog option would allow the same
> functionality that currently exists but increase functionality for people
> like me who expect styles to be consistently applied.

Not sure if showing a dialog would be the way to go, and instead a checkbox or
drop down menu in the options dialog would be the better option for power/style
users to set.

(In reply to John Russell from comment #11)
> For example often you are working with documents created elsewhere. Power
> users need to be able to apply styles over existing direct formatting. 

Yes we need better tools for power/style users to use to make it easy for them
to not only create styled documents but also convert direct formatting
documents into styled document.

This discussion make me think about Wordperfect's reveal codes feature (bug
34002) as well as the improved styles and formatting tab in the sidebar (bug
90646), as both would be beneficial to power/style users.

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #11 from John Russell  ---
I agree with both Joel's cases, although personally I think that the user's
last election should overwrite all previous ones. 

For example often you are working with documents created elsewhere. Power users
need to be able to apply styles over existing direct formatting. 

Naive users will continue with direct formatting. 

My experience is that I will apply styles first, then overwrite specific parts
with direct formatting where I need an uncommon local style. To do it the other
way round makes a difficult workflow where you can't see the look and feel of
the document until you've finished. 

LibreOffice Writer is the only package I've seen which does not overwrite
previous selections with more recent ones.

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

Owen Genat owen.ge...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89
   ||829

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

Cor Nouws c...@nouenoff.nl changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||c...@nouenoff.nl

--- Comment #3 from Cor Nouws c...@nouenoff.nl ---
(In reply to Octavio Alvarez from comment #1)

 I recommend discussing --in a separate bug-- the issue of what should happen
 if the user uses DF to the visual equivalent of removing DF.
 [...]
 Currently, the selection B will have 'DF:bold'. The alternative is to have
 'DF:regular' removed.
 [...]

I see no objection in that change. But do not have an overview of all details
involved.
Thanks for explaining Octavio.
Cor

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #4 from Cor Nouws c...@nouenoff.nl ---
Hi Joel,

I like your proposal:
with a selection containing direct formatting, when a style is applied, the
users is promted for removing all that direct formatting or not.

(In reply to Joel Madero from comment #0)
 For #1 (selecting style in advance and then typing);
 *This should overwrite any direct formatting that has been previously
 applied in the document.

I think I do not understand how, when I open an existing document, put the
cursor somewhere, select a style.. that all direct formatting should be
removed.
But IMO that is not influencing my opinion on the large proposal.

Thanks,
Cor

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #10 from Octavio Alvarez alvar...@alvarezp.ods.org ---
Yes, I would like to agree on case #1 too.

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #5 from Octavio Alvarez alvar...@alvarezp.ods.org ---
Joel, can you provide references to the discussion of the (In reply to Joel
Madero from comment #0)
 There are essentially two ways that a user might apply a style:
 1. Select the style in advance, then start typing;

By 'in advance', are you talking about the application of a style in an empty
paragraph?

 For #2 (have text already, then apply style)
 *Suggest that a dialog appears if there is any direct formatting applied in
 the selected text (i.e. if a word is italicized, bolded, etc…) that says
 something like “do you want the style to overwrite any direct formatting in
 the selected text”
 **This can be similar to the dialog that appears in Calc if you copy/paste
 into a cell that already has a value
 **This should have an option to say “do this every time.”

This forces the user to choose one or the other. If the user is unsure and does
not click 'do this every time', the user will be interrupted on each style
application until he makes up his mind.

If the devs opt for going with this option, I suggest to use the word 'remove'
instead of 'overwrite'.

 This should avoid breaking the workflow of people used to the current
 behavior, and add the ability to make it more intuitive for those who find
 the current process counter-intuitive (those who want a style to be applied
 uniformly every time).

 Talking on QA channel and on user mailing list makes
 me think that the current situation is counter-intuitive to a fair number of
 people.

Can you provide a URL to the discussion?

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #6 from Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Octavio Alvarez from comment #5)
 Joel, can you provide references to the discussion of the (In reply to Joel
 Madero from comment #0)
  There are essentially two ways that a user might apply a style:
  1. Select the style in advance, then start typing;
 
 By 'in advance', are you talking about the application of a style in an
 empty paragraph?

Yes - exactly how the bug that you closed demonstrated and as I explained last
night to you in IRC.

 
  For #2 (have text already, then apply style)
  *Suggest that a dialog appears if there is any direct formatting applied in
  the selected text (i.e. if a word is italicized, bolded, etc…) that says
  something like “do you want the style to overwrite any direct formatting in
  the selected text”
  **This can be similar to the dialog that appears in Calc if you copy/paste
  into a cell that already has a value
  **This should have an option to say “do this every time.”
 
 This forces the user to choose one or the other. If the user is unsure and
 does not click 'do this every time', the user will be interrupted on each
 style application until he makes up his mind.
 
 If the devs opt for going with this option, I suggest to use the word
 'remove' instead of 'overwrite'.

Sure - it's UX though that decides not developers :)

 
  This should avoid breaking the workflow of people used to the current
  behavior, and add the ability to make it more intuitive for those who find
  the current process counter-intuitive (those who want a style to be applied
  uniformly every time).
 
  Talking on QA channel and on user mailing list makes
  me think that the current situation is counter-intuitive to a fair number of
  people.
 
 Can you provide a URL to the discussion?

Obviously IRC chats are not logged and therefore there is no URL. But, last
night you heard from one of our most experienced developers (shm_get) who
agreed 100% with me. You can also talk to any of this list of people in IRC for
confirmation (beluga, colonolqubit, jphillipz, mjayfrancis, wantstohelp and
Sophie). Those are all experienced contributors)

As for the user thread - here is a link:
https://www.mail-archive.com/users@global.libreoffice.org/msg41274.html



@Cor - all I mean is that if you start a new paragraph, and no text at all has
been written, and then select a style, that style should remove any direct
formatting that has carried over from the previous paragraph and the style
should be applied *as defined.*

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #9 from Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com ---
I agree that case #2 (which seems to be the one you're referring to) is much
more complex - although I think the dialog option would allow the same
functionality that currently exists but increase functionality for people like
me who expect styles to be consistently applied.


But there seems to be general agreement as to case #1 (the case where nothing
is written, you choose a style, and then start typing). 

@Owen - thanks for your thoughtful feedback.

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #7 from Cor Nouws c...@nouenoff.nl ---
(In reply to Joel Madero from comment #6)

 Obviously IRC chats are not logged and therefore there is no URL. But, last
 night you heard from one of our most experienced developers (shm_get) who
 agreed 100% with me. You can also talk to any of this list of people in IRC
 for confirmation (beluga, colonolqubit, jphillipz, mjayfrancis, wantstohelp
 and Sophie). Those are all experienced contributors)

While really appreciating all peoples contributions, that does not mean that
they are per see experts in all area's ;)

But still, I already gave my + 2 for the proposed idea :)


 @Cor - all I mean is that if you start a new paragraph, and no text at all
 has been written, and then select a style, that style should remove any
 direct formatting that has carried over from the previous paragraph and the
 style should be applied *as defined.*

Ah, that helps. Thanks. (There is an issue to solve the problem that direct
formatting at the end of a line is taken to the next)

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #8 from Owen Genat owen.ge...@gmail.com ---
My comments in related bug 83726 need clarification. I am not trying to be
argumentative but rather just provide contextual information. On re-reading my
comments (in that bug) I realise it may sound as though I am suggesting this is
a limitation of ODF/OOXML, however it is probably an implementation issue. I do
however feel this is a difficult enhancement as there are  conformance, legacy,
and likely numerous technical considerations. A basic example can be created
from the text a b c using a simplified variant of the example in comment
three of bug 83726:

p style=P1a
   span style=C1b /spanc
/p

This could be a paragraph style P1 (e.g., italic) with directly applied
character formatting C1 (e.g., Roman/non-bold) to b. Currently, applying a
different paragraph style (e.g., P2 defined as bold) results in:

p style=P2a
   span style=C1b /spanc
/p

... thus it does not override the Roman/non-bold styling on b. It seems like
this enhancement is suggesting the result should be:

p style=P2a b c/p

... which does remove the Roman/non-bold on b and bolds the entire paragraph.
Bear in mind that this is a simple example. Actual examples can be
significantly more complex but the overall proposed result would be similar.
Many tests would need to be run on an enhancement of this nature to ensure it
has no adverse effects.

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 CC||jmadero@gmail.com
   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83
   ||726
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #1 from Octavio Alvarez alvar...@alvarezp.ods.org ---
The case exposed in bug #83726 is invalid because the user did not properly use
the tool. *However*, a change could be done to prevent users from falling into
the 'hidden DF trap' and making the program behavior more consistent.

I recommend discussing --in a separate bug-- the issue of what should happen if
the user uses DF to the visual equivalent of removing DF.

Suppose:

1. A paragraph has a style that uses Bold.

2. The user selects part of the paragraph (selection A) and hits Bold.

3. Then, the user selects a subsection of selection A (selection B) and
hits bold again.

Currently, the selection B will have 'DF:bold'. The alternative is to have
'DF:regular' removed.

[*] DF = Direct Formatting

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89960] Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct Formatting

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89960

--- Comment #2 from Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com ---
I really think that you all should talk to users about their experience with
the tool (ping the user mailing list for instance). The way I use it is how
*many* people use it - so to say we are using it wrong, means that the tool is
designed in a way that makes it intuitive to use it wrong which is a problem in
and of itself.

This notion that because it was designed this way it should never change is
just silly - join QA channel and ask for input there (I've spoken with 5+ in
that room, and we are all contributors) who agree that the current behavior is
counter-intuitive. I also pinged the user mailing list and had multiple users
agree that it's not intuitive. Lastly, there have been a couple other bugs that
described the same problem.

So - while you may say I'm wrong for using the tool this way, I'd respond with
then make the tool more intuitive.

If the goal is to get users to use styles more - I'm afraid the job is not
going well. I would never recommend users to use styles with how they currently
function - I use LibreOffice daily for legal work, I contribute both in QA and
other places, etc.. etc... and I'm thinking about not using styles any more
because I'm *constantly* having to interrupt my workflow and do ctrl+m.

Anyways - I think my proposed solution could work for everyone.

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
___
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs