[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

--- Comment #22 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #21)
> The font substitution works correctly and includes the main menu.
> 
> On a Windows system a substitute for Segoe UI with a serif font--Liberation
> Serif shows the replacement for the system font.
> 
> Assume it also behaves on the various Linux DEs

Sorry that was testing on both Windows 10 and Windows 8.1 with
Version: 5.3.2.2 (x64)
Build ID: 6cd4f1ef626f15116896b1d8e1398b56da0d0ee1
CPU Threads: 8; OS Version: Windows 6.19; UI Render: default; Layout Engine:
new; 
Locale: en-US (en_US); Calc: group

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |WORKSFORME

--- Comment #21 from V Stuart Foote  ---
The font substitution works correctly and includes the main menu.

On a Windows system a substitute for Segoe UI with a serif font--Liberation
Serif shows the replacement for the system font.

Assume it also behaves on the various Linux DEs

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

--- Comment #20 from QA Administrators  ---
** Please read this message in its entirety before responding **

To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today,
LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed
bugs which have not been touched for over a year.

There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this
bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the
details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in
getting confirmation that the bug is still present.

If you have time, please do the following:

Test to see if the bug is still present on a currently supported version of
LibreOffice 
(5.1.6 or 5.2.3  https://www.libreoffice.org/download/

If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the version of
LibreOffice and 
your operating system, and any changes you see in the bug behavior

If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to
RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave 
a short comment that includes your version of LibreOffice and Operating System

Please DO NOT

Update the version field
Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker)
Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular
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If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a
REGRESSION. To do so:
1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your
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http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/

2. Test your bug
3. Leave a comment with your results.
4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to "inherited from OOo";
4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add "regression" to keyword


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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

--- Comment #18 from Yury  ---
(In reply to Maxim Monastirsky from comment #17)
> (In reply to Yury from comment #15)
> > and is it working, actually?
> Please re-read my last comment. I explicitly said that it doesn't work. BTW
> I have a WIP commit locally that makes font substitution work again for UI.
> I also identified the exact commit that broke the menubar. Sadly I don't
> have more time to spend on it, but I can give code pointers to whoever wants
> to take this task.

First, thank you, guys, for helping. I've changed the setting and am already
more comfortable.

And I'd appreciate code pointers -- leading to the code doing the font face
substitution (like, on non-existent glyphs).

I have to have odd glyphs in my texts sometimes, and there is this silliness
with LO neither showing me the fact of substitution, nor allowing me to affect
its functionality. So -- on my unchanging setup -- I might get 'not-existing'
glyphs substituted sometimes (which is a quirk, actually), and sometimes I just
get substitutions of completely different family altogether.

I'm not filing the issue on this. Did this once, got some cold shoulder. 
I might get lucky with a hack, though.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

--- Comment #19 from Maxim Monastirsky  ---
(In reply to Yury from comment #18)
> leading to the code doing the font face
> substitution (like, on non-existent glyphs).
For this you should better ask on the dev. mailing list. I'm sure there are
people there that familiar with this stuff.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

Maxim Monastirsky  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||momonas...@gmail.com

--- Comment #17 from Maxim Monastirsky  ---
(In reply to Yury from comment #15)
> and is it working, actually?
Please re-read my last comment. I explicitly said that it doesn't work. BTW I
have a WIP commit locally that makes font substitution work again for UI. I
also identified the exact commit that broke the menubar. Sadly I don't have
more time to spend on it, but I can give code pointers to whoever wants to take
this task.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

--- Comment #16 from Beluga  ---
(In reply to Yury from comment #15)
> So how do I access this expert option, and is it working, actually?

Tools - Options - LibO - Advanced - Expert config.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

--- Comment #15 from Yury  ---
(In reply to Maxim Monastirsky from comment #14)
> (In reply to Yousuf (Jay) Philips from comment #13)

> > include an easier means of setting the font to be used (i.e. expert config),

> There is already - in expert config search for "UI_SANS" (the key is still
> there, but it doesn't work right now, because the code that used it is
> removed). The 'font substitution' trick is from the days that expert config
> wasn't easily accessible to users.


So how do I access this expert option, and is it working, actually?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

--- Comment #13 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips  ---
(In reply to Maxim Monastirsky from comment #12)
> There is also another request from a Mac user in Bug 94114, and also another
> use-case in [1]. So if there is a user demand, maybe we can retain this at
> least as an expert config thing?
> 
> @Jay: What do you think?

If reverting it all is off the table, then atleast retaining it as an expert
config would be useful for people that need it. It would be useful to also
include an easier means of setting the font to be used (i.e. expert config),
rather than users having to go into Tools > Options > LibreOffice > Fonts, as i
wasnt able to get it working.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

--- Comment #14 from Maxim Monastirsky  ---
(In reply to Yousuf (Jay) Philips from comment #13)
> It would be useful to also
> include an easier means of setting the font to be used (i.e. expert config),
> rather than users having to go into Tools > Options > LibreOffice > Fonts,
> as i wasnt able to get it working.
There is already - in expert config search for "UI_SANS" (the key is still
there, but it doesn't work right now, because the code that used it is
removed). The 'font substitution' trick is from the days that expert config
wasn't easily accessible to users.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

Maxim Monastirsky  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94
   ||114,
   ||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87
   ||016

--- Comment #12 from Maxim Monastirsky  ---
(In reply to Yury from comment #0)
> I'm setting the substitute for 'Segoe UI', and the menus dropping down from
> menubars, and everything else is in substituted font, but main menubar items
> are not.
Confirmed with 4.4.6.1 under Fedora 23.

(In reply to Yousuf (Jay) Philips from comment #5)
> Just as a reference, this functionality was changed with bug 87016
The commit there only removed the UI part (and it was still possible to use
through expert config). What actually removed it is
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=e2a41b4415f59c2c6a75f40775a19c8ce4cbdb42
(and some follow-up stuff).

> and i
> think having the ability to change it on linux may be beneficial as the font
> situation on linux isnt the best and it would be beneficial for bugs like
> bug 70857, where not being able to uncheck this causes sluggishness in the
> UI.
There is also another request from a Mac user in Bug 94114, and also another
use-case in [1]. So if there is a user demand, maybe we can retain this at
least as an expert config thing?

@Jay: What do you think?

[1] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2015-August/069928.html

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

Adolfo Jayme f...@libreoffice.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also|https://bugs.documentfounda |
   |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70 |
   |857 |

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

--- Comment #11 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to Yury from comment #10)
 It will remain complicated, even with this option gone. What would you
 expect to be there -- one checkbox? :)
 Summing up, there was a convenient feature, now it'll be gone. But what's
 one more inconvenience?

Yes i dont think its worth ripping things out of this complicated dialog, but
instead to have an easy mode for regular users. (bug 90989)

 What really would benefit from simplification is fonts' processing.
 I've browsed the respective part of the LO source a couple of years ago --
 wanting to (1) know why raster fonts are not allowed (on linux) to be used
 as UI font in LO, and to (2) know why font lists in styles have no influence
 on glyph substitution. 
 
 And I couldn't make heads nor tails of it. I bet developers are afraid of
 touching this code, either. :)

Well the devs are aware of how difficult it maybe to fix such problems, so that
is something i leave to them to decide.

 If you have some say in it, Jay, please, kindly have a look into the
 (closed/notourproblem) #56076.

I'm not a dev so i dont really have anything to say about the technical issues
discussed in that bug report, but the devs listed in their are quite
knowledgeable and have been working on the code for many years.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

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--- Comment #10 from Yury yury.tarasiev...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #9)
 (In reply to Yury from comment #7)
...
 Well as stated by Adolfo, it was a decision that the UX team had taken in
 2012 and hadnt been implemented. Well the change is an attempt to clean up
 the options dialog which is quite complicated.

It will remain complicated, even with this option gone. What would you expect
to be there -- one checkbox? :)
Summing up, there was a convenient feature, now it'll be gone. But what's one
more inconvenience?

What really would benefit from simplification is fonts' processing.
I've browsed the respective part of the LO source a couple of years ago --
wanting to (1) know why raster fonts are not allowed (on linux) to be used as
UI font in LO, and to (2) know why font lists in styles have no influence on
glyph substitution. 

And I couldn't make heads nor tails of it. I bet developers are afraid of
touching this code, either. :)

If you have some say in it, Jay, please, kindly have a look into the
(closed/notourproblem) #56076.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

--- Comment #8 from Yury yury.tarasiev...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Adolfo Jayme from comment #6)
 (In reply to Yury from comment #4)
  Well... Remove this and remove that. The feature was useful on linux
 
 I am a Linux user myself, and can hardly believe that removing it affects
 functionality at all; precisely one of the main features of Linux desktop
 environments is the ability to change, *globally*, the fonts used by the
 software programs you use. All of them allow that: GNOME, Unity,

Which may be considered -- unexpectedly for some, perhaps -- not the optimal
solution for the complex problem of UIs (plural) legibility. There was an
additional LO functionality on linux, now there is no more. Big cheers to what?

  And I'm almost willing to bet the 5.0 series will be even bigger in the 
  sense
  of diskspace and cycles -- not being bigger in the sense of functionality.
 
 You’re being annoyingly disrespectful to the hundreds of contributors who
 are dedicating their time to improve this software project. And it seems you
 haven’t even dedicated five minutes to read our release notes.

I am myself a contributor, so don't take that tone with me, please. In fact,
don't take that tone with anybody, please, even with non-contributors, even
with plain dumb users.

To the business. Release notes for this (major) release do not take 5 minutes
reading, rather 1 or 2. I've reread them just now, for the sake of argument. I
do not believe I see the revolutionary changes there -- and how much will the
5.* installation take on disk? in memory?

So, is there anything there on years-long problems with Word format
interoperability -- which recently got SHOWSTOPPINGLY worse with #88697? Now I
can't send even a moderately complex text with bibliography to the editors
requiring word without re-setting by hand all bib entries (and what if they
should be numbered?). Formulas in word import/export -- don't get me started.

And it is word interoperability (not word UI mimicry) that buys you users, not
pretty themes or translations, even.

Enough, I think.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

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--- Comment #7 from Yury yury.tarasiev...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #5)
 (In reply to Yury from comment #2)
 What font did you place in the Font field?

Usually, one of the squarish, blackish fonts with easily distinguishable i/l
shapes etc., in  (in fact, Chicago and Charcoal analogues -- think Grana
Padano, Virtue, MacType).

I work with OOO/LO texts and formulas a lot, and consider such setup easier on
eyes (I use the analogous setup in Firefox, BTW.) Text window is the focus of
attention, and UI doesn't get in the way but is readable.

This is about the opposite of what's expected of 'system' font, which is used
for menus, dialogs, etc., through which we convey our meaning to system. There
the 'system' font is the main medium, for all applications in system-wide
context, so there are different requirements to it.

 (In reply to Yury from comment #4)
 I believe it should be simple for you to change the system-wide font on
 linux and doing so would change not only the menubar but also the menubar
 menus.

But I already know I can. :) I chose the GTK system font like 15 years ago, and
tug the config along through my homedirs. Same with qtconfig. But in fact, I
regret there is no capability in system to change the applications' fonts
individually -- and I mean change easily, like it was done on OS/2 20+ years
ago. 

 Just as a reference, this functionality was changed with bug 87016 and i
 think having the ability to change it on linux may be beneficial as the font
 situation on linux isnt the best and it would be beneficial for bugs like
 bug 70857, where not being able to uncheck this causes sluggishness in the
 UI.
 
 Will through it to ux-advise to let them give their input into it.

Bug 87016 was somewhat dubiously formulated and got about zero discussion
before it was fast-tracked into the code. I didn't know about that urge to
remove the option, or I would chime in. Now it seems it's too late.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|NEW
 CC||c...@nouenoff.nl,
   ||heiko.tie...@user-prompt.co
   ||m, vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu
   Hardware|x86-64 (AMD64)  |All
 Resolution|WONTFIX |---
 OS|Linux (All) |All

--- Comment #9 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to Yury from comment #7)
 Usually, one of the squarish, blackish fonts with easily distinguishable i/l
 shapes etc., in  (in fact, Chicago and Charcoal analogues -- think Grana
 Padano, Virtue, MacType).
 
 I work with OOO/LO texts and formulas a lot, and consider such setup easier
 on eyes (I use the analogous setup in Firefox, BTW.) Text window is the
 focus of attention, and UI doesn't get in the way but is readable.
 
 This is about the opposite of what's expected of 'system' font, which is
 used for menus, dialogs, etc., through which we convey our meaning to
 system. There the 'system' font is the main medium, for all applications in
 system-wide context, so there are different requirements to it.

Well i tried what i could but still wasnt able to get the substitution to work.
On my Mate desktop the menu font is the 'Application font' and it is Sans 9pt,
but setting that to do the substitution didnt work after unchecking using the
system font for UI.

 But I already know I can. :) I chose the GTK system font like 15 years ago,
 and tug the config along through my homedirs. Same with qtconfig. But in
 fact, I regret there is no capability in system to change the applications'
 fonts individually -- and I mean change easily, like it was done on OS/2 20+
 years ago. 

Well that is a limitation of the OS and not a feature that other apps provide.

 Bug 87016 was somewhat dubiously formulated and got about zero discussion
 before it was fast-tracked into the code. I didn't know about that urge to
 remove the option, or I would chime in. Now it seems it's too late.

Well as stated by Adolfo, it was a decision that the UX team had taken in 2012
and hadnt been implemented. Well the change is an attempt to clean up the
options dialog which is quite complicated.

(In reply to Yury from comment #8)
 To the business. Release notes for this (major) release do not take 5
 minutes reading, rather 1 or 2. I've reread them just now, for the sake of
 argument. I do not believe I see the revolutionary changes there -- and how
 much will the 5.* installation take on disk? in memory?

There are many changes that havent been included in the release notes yet, but
will be added closer to the release. 5.* will take up a similar amount of disk
space and memory as 4.*.

@Stuart, Cor, Heiko: Any input on this issue, as i was thinking to bring it to
the design meeting.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

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--- Comment #4 from Yury yury.tarasiev...@gmail.com ---
Well... Remove this and remove that. The feature was useful on linux, as who
wants to dig in all those gtk/qt/whatever entrails? I've been easily setting
the easy on eyes font in OOO/LO 'for ages'. Thank you, team, for taking this
from me.

And I'm almost willing to bet the 5.0 series will be even bigger in the sense
of diskspace and cycles -- not being bigger in the sense of functionality.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

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Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|NEW
 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org
  Component|UI  |ux-advise
   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87
   ||016,
   ||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70
   ||857
 Resolution|WONTFIX |---

--- Comment #5 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to Yury from comment #2)
 Go to 'Tools-Options-LibreOffice-Fonts', set substitution for 'Segoe UI',
 check 'always'. Verify that in 'Tools-Options-LibreOffice-View' you have
 unchecked 'Use system font for user interface'.

What font did you place in the Font field?

(In reply to Yury from comment #4)
 Well... Remove this and remove that. The feature was useful on linux, as who
 wants to dig in all those gtk/qt/whatever entrails? I've been easily setting
 the easy on eyes font in OOO/LO 'for ages'. Thank you, team, for taking this
 from me.

I believe it should be simple for you to change the system-wide font on linux
and doing so would change not only the menubar but also the menubar menus.

Just as a reference, this functionality was changed with bug 87016 and i think
having the ability to change it on linux may be beneficial as the font
situation on linux isnt the best and it would be beneficial for bugs like bug
70857, where not being able to uncheck this causes sluggishness in the UI.

Will through it to ux-advise to let them give their input into it.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

Adolfo Jayme f...@libreoffice.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |
   |.freedesktop.org|
  Component|ux-advise   |UI
   See Also|https://bugs.documentfounda |
   |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87 |
   |016 |
 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX

--- Comment #6 from Adolfo Jayme f...@libreoffice.org ---
(In reply to Yury from comment #4)
 Well... Remove this and remove that. The feature was useful on linux

I am a Linux user myself, and can hardly believe that removing it affects
functionality at all; precisely one of the main features of Linux desktop
environments is the ability to change, *globally*, the fonts used by the
software programs you use. All of them allow that: GNOME, Unity, Enlightenment,
KDE… It doesn’t make sense, at this point on time, to continue supporting a
half-baked, inbuilt mechanism to have the same functionality that your
environment has.

 And I'm almost willing to bet the 5.0 series will be even bigger in the sense
 of diskspace and cycles -- not being bigger in the sense of functionality.

You’re being annoyingly disrespectful to the hundreds of contributors who are
dedicating their time to improve this software project. And it seems you
haven’t even dedicated five minutes to read our release notes.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

Beluga todven...@suomi24.fi changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDINFO|RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX

--- Comment #3 from Beluga todven...@suomi24.fi ---
Ok, this feature was removed:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.0#Feature_removal_.2F_deprecation
The obsolete, StarOffice-inherited option “Use system font for user interface”
was removed. LibreOffice will always use the system’s font to display its user
interface element

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

Beluga todven...@suomi24.fi changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEEDINFO
 CC||philip...@hotmail.com,
   ||todven...@suomi24.fi
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #1 from Beluga todven...@suomi24.fi ---
I can't find, where I could change the font family for menus.
Please give detailed steps on how to do it.

Set to NEEDINFO.
Change back to UNCONFIRMED after you have provided the information.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 90801] UI font in menubar is not affected by font substitution

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90801

--- Comment #2 from Yury yury.tarasiev...@gmail.com ---
Because you can't set the font in main menubar (!) separately, and the
erroneous behaviour of same is what I'm filing a ticket about.

Go to 'Tools-Options-LibreOffice-Fonts', set substitution for 'Segoe UI',
check 'always'. Verify that in 'Tools-Options-LibreOffice-View' you have
unchecked 'Use system font for user interface'.

Now you should have (as I have) substituted font in all menus, dialogs etc.,
but not in the main menubar (!) itself, like it is shown on proofpic.

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