Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Uploading Edited Manual

2012-06-14 Thread klaus-jürgen weghorn ol

Hi Joel, *,
(ccing the documention-ml)

Am 13.06.2012 20:33, schrieb Joel Madero:

Hi All,
Where do I upload an updated manual. I made an incredibly small change
to address a bug report that someone had:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41600

I've done about a paragraph addition just to address the language issue
that the user brought up. Can I send this somewhere? Thanks in advance.


For questions about documentation it is better to write to 
documentation-ml (documentat...@global.libreoffice.org). There you will 
get (hopefully) the right answers and help.


Changes in documentation should be first published in ODFAuthors. You 
should work on the existing document.


If it is too difficult to do it for you, give a short signal. It should 
be easy to integrate your work.


Here some links for more information:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Production#Workflow

--
Grüße
k-j


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] New Bugzilla Version Picker items – 2

2012-06-14 Thread Petr Mladek
Hi Rainer,

sigh, I missed this mail because I was not in CC... :-(

On Sat, 2012-06-09 at 10:35 +0200, Rainer Bielefeld wrote:
 Bjoern Michaelsen schrieb:
 
  3.X.Y_alphaZ   - for alpha releases
  3.X.Y_betaZ- for beta releases
  3.X.Y.Z   - for release candidates
 
 Hi Bjoern,
 
 I think we should only use 1 kind of separator, everything else produces 
 impredictable sort order results in different contexts.
 
 Unfortunately replacing th underscore by a dot does not heal Bugzilla 
 sort order problems, here an example I see in Bugzilla:
 
 3.8.0.0.beta1 
 3.8.0.0beta1  
 3.8.0.1   
 3.8.0.1 rc
 3.8.0.2 rc
 3.8.0.2 release   
 3.8.0.beta1   
 3.8.0beta1
 3.8.0beta2
 3.8.0_beta1
 That's ugly   

G, I am confused. This is not alphabetical sorting. It seems that
bugzilla seems to be somehow clever.

I guess that this non-alphabetical sorting is by purpose. It has the
advantage that beta suffixes are displayed after rc and pure
number versions. Betas are are obsolete the by final releases. It is
good to have RCs and final releases on top.

I wonder if there is a global setting that could disable this strange
feature in bugzilla.

 Condensing this my suggestion for releases is some structure like


 MajorVersion.Version.MicroVersion.Workflow.PreReleaseInfo
 
 3.8.0.0.alpha1
 3.8.0.0.beta1 
 3.8.0.0.beta2 
 3.8.0.1 (rc info not in Help about)   
 3.8.0.2 (rc info not in Help about)   
   3.8.0.2 (release info not in Help about)

This might be a good compromise if we can't disable the strange bugzilla
sorting and can't live with it. 

 Any Idea how we can integrate the Branch and Master Versions? Please 
 keep in Mind that I do not want to have them all in the Version picker, 
 that would produce an endless slider for Versions with 1 reported Bug or so.

I am confused. What do you mean by branch and master versions?

IMHO, it would make sense to remove alpha and beta versions from
bugzilla few months after the release. If we do not know exactly that a
bug appeared in the given beta, we do not need this granularity. IMHO,
we get better information from the bibisect.


 BTW I am not happy with the current
 libreoffice-3.5.99.1 tag created (3.6.0-beta1)
 Although this approach has the charm of mathematical correctness, we 
 can't do that without a volunteer answering all questions like I have a 
 3.6.0 with a 3.5 Tag number, is that a bug? ;-)
 I believe that's too worrying for users (although it seems to work for 
 Mozilla, but do we have info how happy they are with that?). But of 
 course, that's only my private feeling.

I think that 3.5.99.1 is not that bad. On the other hand, I agree that
3.8.0.0.alpha1, 3.8.0.0.beta1, 3.8.0.1 is a better solution.

Best Regards,
Petr

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] New Bugzilla Version Picker items – 2

2012-06-14 Thread Petr Mladek
On Mon, 2012-06-11 at 03:28 -0700, Pedro wrote:
 Florian Reisinger-3 wrote
  
  
  [Second schema]
  3.6.0.00x for alphas
  3.6.0.0x0 for betas
  3.6.0.100 for RC (example) and/or release
  3.6.0.200 for RC (example) and/or release
  3.6.0.200 for release(example)
  
 
 Simplest solution. Easy to understand which is the latest. The fixed number
 of digits is the best option. No doubt if .010 is newer than .003

I am sorry but I have to disagree that it is easy to understand. If you
see 3.6.0.00x without extra information, you have no idea that it is
potentially unstable alpha version. It could set wrong expectations and
bring bad feeling.

Best Regards,
Petr

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] New Bugzilla Version Picker items – 2

2012-06-14 Thread Petr Mladek
On Thu, 2012-06-07 at 14:46 +0200, Michael Stahl wrote:
 ooh, a release numbering scheme bike shedding thread!

:-)

 how about this then:
 
 3.6.0.x for alpha/beta
 3.6.x.y for RC y of release 3.6.x
 
 yes, that implies that the first actual release is 3.6.1 and there is no
 3.6.0 release, but those never work anyway so who cares ;)

Interesting idea. Well, I would prefer to mention to string alpha/beta
to better set the expectations.

Best Regards,
Petr

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Very VERY slow Base

2012-06-14 Thread Petr Mladek
Hi,

better late than newer.

On Fri, 2012-06-01 at 13:00 +0200, David wrote:
 I have a Base database that is about 22mb in size with approximately 
 40,000 entries and climbing. I recently upgraded from LibO 3.4.3 to 
 LibO3.5.4 and suddenly my database is really, and I mean really slow. 
 Sifting through 30,000 entries on one table takes up to twenty 
 minutes I uninstalled the new version, returned to the old version 
 and everything is back to normal, however, uninstalled the older version 
 again, reinstalled 3.5 and the problem is back...
 
 Previously all I had to do was link my LibO to Java Runtime 6.22 and 
 keep it there regardless of upgrades in the JRE, but this time it didn't 
 work. You guessed it, I'm running Linux (Mint 9 on a Dell D620 Core 2 
 Duo laptop). I know there is/was a problem in Linux with OpenOff/ LibO 
 and the JRE and Base and the previous workaround was to not upgrade your 
 JRE beyond 6.22. Is there a new workaround?

Could you please open bug in bugzilla and add Lionel and Michael into
CC?

We will need some more information to locate the problem. The best
solution would be if you attach a test database showing the problem. I
am afraid that you could not provide the original database because it
contains sensitive data. Though, you might try to create another
database with random data that has the same behavior.

Another solution is to follow instructions from Lionel and Michael, and
do some profiling yourself.


Best Regards,
Petr

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] New Bugzilla Version Picker items – 2

2012-06-14 Thread Bjoern Michaelsen
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 09:41:50AM +0200, Petr Mladek wrote:
  yes, that implies that the first actual release is 3.6.1 and there is no
  3.6.0 release, but those never work anyway so who cares ;)

Marketing does. 3.x.0 is when all the big news sites report about it and it
will be hard to change customs there.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Cleaning bug list

2012-06-14 Thread Marc Kaulisch

Hello,

may I suggest that this list of eight important points of consideration 
should be included in this http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugTriage 
page?
For me it would be great if I could have an authorative advise about how 
to deal with open bugs...


Greetings,

Marc


Am 08.06.2012 12:27, schrieb Jan Holesovsky:

Hi Joel,

On 2012-06-07 at 23:49 -0700, Joel Madero wrote:


1. If there has been a request for information and there has been no
response for 30+ days I'm putting NEEDINFO

2. If two or more people have said that they do not have the bug I'm
doing the following if there hasn't been action for 30+ days:
a. If it's stated that the bug was fixed in a recent release, I'm
putting RESOLVED with a comment that if it's not for the author or
someone else to open it back up
b. If it's stated that it's not our bug I'm changing status to
NOTOURBUG
c. If it's stated that it never was a bug I'm putting NOTABUG with a
comment saying to open it back up with more information if it is a bug

3. If it's confirmed by other people I'm changing it to confirmed

4. Of course I'm taking a glance at them to see if I can take them on,
I've assigned two to myself.

5. If someone appears to be working on the bug and has implicitly or
explicitly said they are doing it (ie. it's in progress, almost done,
I'll take this one, etc..) I'm changing to assigned and adding a
name

Thanks so much for this - this is greatly appreciated!  I like this
approach, and I'd like to ask you for some additional points that would
help a lot (if that fits your workflow):

6. If the bug talks about a misbehavior in a document, but the document
is missing, NEEDINFO the reporter to provide the document.  Similarly,
if the bug says something like create document, do this, do that, do
another thing, and then when you choose XY, it does AB instead of CD,
NEEDINFO the reporter to create such a document, so that the developer
can focus only on when you choose XY, it does AB instead of CD.

7. If the bug is a crash on Linux, ask the reporter for a backtrace, if
it is not provided yet (unfortunately it is still way too hard to get
the backtrace on Windows now) - ideally by pointing to:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport#How_to_get_backtrace_.28on_Linux.29

8. If the bug is a crash, it is a probable candidate to become one of
the Most Annoying Bugs; depending on the impact, consider making it
dependant on

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6


I hope I'm not overstepping, just trying to help as much as possible
as it seems like there is a bit of a back log. If this isn't wanted
just let me know and I'll cease immediately.

The opposite - the more people join this effort, the better! :-)  For
more co-ordination, I am sure people on libreoffice-qa@ mailing list
(CC'd) will help you.

Thank you a lot,
Kendy

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Uploading Edited Manual

2012-06-14 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :)
+1
Sorry.  Now i have thought about it that final sentence of mine flags up a 
potential minefield.  Klaus-jürgen and Jean's answer is wise.
Apols and regards from
Tom :)

--- On Thu, 14/6/12, Jean Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Jean Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Uploading Edited 
Manual
To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Thursday, 14 June, 2012, 12:00

I disagree. The changed document should be checked by someone on the
team (for example, me) before replacing anything on the wiki.

--Jean

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 Hi :)
 I think, in this case, that it might be better to just upload straight to the 
 wiki
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications

 ODFAuthors is for proof-reading and all the rest of the process.  This case 
 sounds like it is probably ready to go straight to the wiki.  Please let us 
 know which chapter and when you have done it as the change might need to get 
 pulled into the completed full book as well as the chapter you have edited.

 Regards from
 Tom :)


 --- On Thu, 14/6/12, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol o...@sophia-louise.de wrote:

 From: klaus-jürgen weghorn ol o...@sophia-louise.de
 Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Uploading Edited 
 Manual
 To: Libreoffice-qa libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org
 Cc: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org, jmadero@gmail.com
 Date: Thursday, 14 June, 2012, 7:01

 Hi Joel, *,
 (ccing the documention-ml)

 Am 13.06.2012 20:33, schrieb Joel Madero:
 Hi All,
 Where do I upload an updated manual. I made an incredibly small change
 to address a bug report that someone had:
 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41600

 I've done about a paragraph addition just to address the language issue
 that the user brought up. Can I send this somewhere? Thanks in advance.

 For questions about documentation it is better to write to documentation-ml 
 (documentat...@global.libreoffice.org). There you will get (hopefully) the 
 right answers and help.

 Changes in documentation should be first published in ODFAuthors. You should 
 work on the existing document.

 If it is too difficult to do it for you, give a short signal. It should be 
 easy to integrate your work.

 Here some links for more information:

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Production#Workflow

 -- Grüße
 k-j


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] New Bugzilla Version Picker items – 2

2012-06-14 Thread Petr Mladek
On Thu, 2012-06-14 at 11:10 +0200, Rainer Bielefeld wrote:
 Petr Mladek schrieb:
 
  [Second schema]
  3.6.0.00x for alphas
  3.6.0.0x0 for betas
  3.6.0.100 for RC (example) and/or release
  3.6.0.200 for RC (example) and/or release
  3.6.0.200 for release(example)

 Hi Petr,
 
 this Idea should not exclude additional information, of course we should 
 include tha Alpha and Beta Text. But I wanted to have all 
 information in the Version number to avoid problems with different sort 
 handling (you saw the strange Bugzilla sorting).
 
 I think we should not use different separators, you never know whether 
 some system (Wiki, OpenHatch, Whatever) might have it's own ideas what 
 alphabetical sort order might be.
 
 Complete Version concerning this suggestion would be:
 
 Help / AboutBugzilla Picker
 --
 3.6.0.000alpha0+3.6.0.000alpha0+
 3.6.0.001alpha1 3.6.0.001alpha1
 3.6.0.002alpha2 3.6.0.002alpha2
 3.6.0.010beta1  3.6.0.010beta1
 3.6.0.020beta2  3.6.0.020beta2
 3.6.0.030beta3  3.6.0.030beta3
 3.6.0.100   3.6.0.100 rc
 3.6.0.200   3.6.0.200 rc
 3.6.0.200   3.6.0.200 release
 
 Advantage of that system is that it is only an expansion of the existing 
 one (RC1 3.6.0.1 becomes 3.6.0.100)
 
 Alternative System, not compatible with current one
 
 Help / AboutBugzilla Picker Info
 
 3.6.0.00alpha0+ 3.6.0.00alpha0+
 3.6.0.01alpha1  3.6.0.01alpha1
 3.6.0.02alpha2  3.6.0.02alpha2
 3.6.0.11beta1   3.6.0.11beta1
 3.6.0.12beta2   3.6.0.12beta2
 3.6.0.13beta3   3.6.0.130beta3
 3.6.0.213.6.0.21rc
 3.6.0.223.6.0.22rc
 3.6.0.223.6.0.22release
 3.6.1.213.6.1.21rc

Ah, I do not like much these schemes because:

+ the number is too long and thus harder to parse and memorize
+ it duplicates the information about alpha/beta ordering;
   you have  01alpha1 (1 is there twice), 02alpha2 (2 is there
   twice)
+ I have never seen this anywhere else. I would prefer to use
  something that people are used to

Why about the following scheme?

Help / AboutBugzilla Picker Info
--
3.6.0.0.alpha1  3.6.0.0.alpha1
3.6.0.0.beta1   3.6.0.0.beta1
3.6.0.0.beta2   3.6.0.0.beta2
3.6.0.1 3.6.0.1 rc
3.6.0.1 3.6.0.2 rc

It is actually your proposal, so I hope that it works for you.
I consider it as the best compromise from what I have seen.


 Unfortunately I see no way to shorten this more than Alternative 
 System shoes, except we accept M. Stahl's suggestion what counts a 
 3.7.0 as some kind of beta ;-)
 
 For the Bugzilla Picers I only want 1 Master for 3.6, one for 3.7, ...
 Also for the Branch I only want 1 Picker Version, may be
 
 3.6.0.000alpha0+ Master
 or
 3.6.0.001alpha1+ Daily (Or Branch or ...)

I see, you are talking about daily builds. If we agree on the above
scheme, we could have:

Help / AboutBugzilla Picker Info 
--
3.7.0.0.alpha0+ 3.7.0.0.alpha0+ daily
3.7.0.0.alpha1  3.7.0.0.alpha1
3.7.0.0.alpha1+ 3.7.0.0.alpha1+ daily
3.7.0.0.alpha2  3.7.0.0.alpha2
3.7.0.0.alpha2+ 3.7.0.0.alpha2+ daily
3.7.0.0.beta1   3.7.0.0.beta1
3.7.0.0.beta1+  3.7.0.0.beta1+  daily
3.7.0.0.beta2   3.7.0.0.beta2
3.7.0.0.beta2+  3.7.0.0.beta2+  daily
3.7.0.1 3.7.0.1 rc
3.7.0.2 3.7.0.2 rc
3.7.0.3 3.7.0.3 rc/final


 A remaining problem is Markus' script adding Target info. Before 
 3.6.0aloha it it contained information due to 
 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport_Details#Whiteboard.

I am sure that the script will be solvable. IMHO, the new proposal make
it easier than the current 3.X-1.98.Y and 3.X-1.99.Y approach.


 Currently the Idea is to include alpha, beta rc as separate target info 
 versions, goal is to encourage testers to verify fixes and to give them 
 better info where the fix will be integrated. IMHO we should reduce 
 different wordings for the Versions as much as possible, but that 
 strings are rather long.

IMHO, the above proposal is well readable. If it is still to long, we
could use aX instead of alphaX and bX instead of betaX. Well, I
somehow prefer the whole word.

 Can we try to get a solution until weekend?

I am sorry for the long delay between replays. I am not effective in
handling too many mailing list. I usually replay faster for mails where
I am in CC. 

[Libreoffice-qa] libreoffice qa call 2012-06-14

2012-06-14 Thread Bjoern Michaelsen
Hi all,

the next LibreOffice QA call is on 2012-06-14 14:00 UTC. See prototype agenda
below.

@Norbert: Would be great for you to be able to join for gerrit discussion.

pending action items:
   - Update/Create active triagers wiki page (Cor/Rainer)
   - collect further ideas for spending a dedicated resource (Cor/Rainer)
 - blocked on CC/Litmus choice  availability
   - write update scenario testcase in Litmus/MozTrap (Kendy)
   - Set Cor up with the Community/Forum maintainers at the distros
 to better propagate Hackfests, Bug Hunting Sessions etc.
 RedHat, Debian, Gentoo still missing
   - update bugwrangling docs to say CC instead of assign (Rainer)
+  - Invite active bugwranglers to next call/QA list, CC Rainer (Bjoern)
   - merge 3.5 and 3.6 in one big bibisect repo (Bjoern)
   - recheck and tweak bibisect details (Bjoern)

structured manual testing (Yifan/Petr):
   - ...

bug wrangling (Rainer):
   - Board of Directors approved budget for Bugzilla improvement
 (incl. performance, OpenID acesss, )
   - bugzilla LibreOffice version format

automated testing and review (Bjoern/Norbert?):
   - gerrit/tinderboxes
  
community building/communication (Cor?):
   - beta testers for 3.6.0 beta 1
   - 3.6.0 beta 1 available in ppa (Bjoern)

bibisect for 3.5 release branch and 3.6 master (Bjoern/Korrawit):
   - ...

Dial-in numbers for countries outside Germany can be found at:
http://www.talkyoo.net/main/telefonkonferenz_internationale_rufnummern

Dial-in numbers inside Germany are:

+49 40 18881000 (Hamburg, landline)
+49 40 95069970 (Hamburg, landline)
+49 89 60893 (Munich, landline)
+49 1570 3336000 (vistream mobile network)

Room:

Room number: 53 71 38
No participant PIN is required
All calls will be recorded
All participants can speak

Note that you can also use Skype to join the call.
Comments and additions most welcome.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Very VERY slow Base

2012-06-14 Thread Lionel Elie Mamane
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 09:52:20AM +0200, Petr Mladek wrote:
 On Fri, 2012-06-01 at 13:00 +0200, David wrote:

 I have a Base database that is about 22mb in size with
 approximately 40,000 entries and climbing. I recently upgraded from
 LibO 3.4.3 to LibO3.5.4 and suddenly my database is really, and I
 mean really slow.

I understand this is embedded HSQL. It would be interesting to see if
the performance problem is:

1) With any database system
2) With all Java (JDBC) systems
3) Only with embedded HSQL

-- 
Lionel
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] libreoffice qa call 2012-06-14

2012-06-14 Thread Florian Reisinger

Hi!

Some things to add this time and next time.

Am 14.06.2012 16:44, schrieb Bjoern Michaelsen:

Hi all,

the next LibreOffice QA call is on 2012-06-14 14:00 UTC. See prototype agenda
below.

@Norbert: Would be great for you to be able to join for gerrit discussion.

pending action items:
- Update/Create active triagers wiki page (Cor/Rainer)
- collect further ideas for spending a dedicated resource (Cor/Rainer)
  -  blocked on CC/Litmus choice  availability
- write update scenario testcase in Litmus/MozTrap (Kendy)
- Set Cor up with the Community/Forum maintainers at the distros
  to better propagate Hackfests, Bug Hunting Sessions etc.
  RedHat, Debian, Gentoo still missing
- update bugwrangling docs to say CC instead of assign (Rainer)
+  - Invite active bugwranglers to next call/QA list, CC Rainer (Bjoern)
- merge 3.5 and 3.6 in one big bibisect repo (Bjoern)
- recheck and tweak bibisect details (Bjoern)

structured manual testing (Yifan/Petr):
- ...

bug wrangling (Rainer):
- Board of Directors approved budget for Bugzilla improvement
  (incl. performance, OpenID acesss, )
- bugzilla LibreOffice version format

automated testing and review (Bjoern/Norbert?):
- gerrit/tinderboxes

community building/communication (Cor?):
- beta testers for 3.6.0 beta 1
- 3.6.0 beta 1 available in ppa (Bjoern)
- Virtual German QA meeting starting at 15:30 UTC (17:30 local time) -- 
Next Meeting: Short summary of the event -- Maybe international


bibisect for 3.5 release branch and 3.6 master (Bjoern/Korrawit):
- ...

-Action item @ German QA meeting


Dial-in numbers for countries outside Germany can be found at:
http://www.talkyoo.net/main/telefonkonferenz_internationale_rufnummern

Dial-in numbers inside Germany are:

 +49 40 18881000 (Hamburg, landline)
 +49 40 95069970 (Hamburg, landline)
 +49 89 60893 (Munich, landline)
 +49 1570 3336000 (vistream mobile network)

Room:

 Room number: 53 71 38
 No participant PIN is required
 All calls will be recorded
 All participants can speak

Note that you can also use Skype to join the call.
Comments and additions most welcome.

Best,

Bjoern
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