Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [proposal] [QA-WE Essen 2012] Bug submission API - How to improve the current system

2012-10-04 Thread Florian Reisinger 

Hi Nino, all!

Am 03.10.2012 21:19, schrieb Nino Novak:

Hi Florian,

Am 03.10.2012 18:43 schrieb Florian Reisinger:


During the German QA meeting some ideas developed.

thanks for reporting.

  To cut it short, we came to

the conclusion, that a Bug Submission API (BS-API) would be very helpful.

Could you elaborate a little the "why?"?

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?f1=days_elapsed&list_id=139288&o1=greaterthan&query_based_on=DELETE%20NEEDINFO%20bugs&chfieldto=-6m&query_format=advanced&chfield=bug_status&chfieldfrom=2000-01-01&chfieldvalue=NEEDINFO&bug_status=NEEDINFO&v1=17&product=LibreOffice&known_name=DELETE%20NEEDINFO%20bugs

80 bugs since 22 - 08 !! which are in NEEDINFO for more than 6 months. I 
closed ~800 bugs. Because of some false positives I added the rule "no 
change within 17 days" It is frustrating, when you try to reproduce a 
bug and fail to do so and don't get further info. The end user should 
not get in touch with bugilla at all. It is also very important that 
more people try to check the bugs (which is in some ways done @ the 
users@de.libreoffice ML.


Or take this query:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?f1=days_elapsed&list_id=139330&o1=greaterthaneq&query_format=advanced&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&v1=150&product=LibreOffice

126 unconfirmed bugs, not touched within 150 days. All in all there are 
1798 bugs (


 * UNCONFIRMED, NEW, ASSIGNED, REOPENED, NEEDINFO) with no action in
   the last 150 days
 *   )

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&f1=days_elapsed&list_id=139332&o1=greaterthaneq&product=LibreOffice&query_format=advanced&v1=150&order=changeddate%2Cpriority%2Cbug_severity&limit=0

By the way: 150 bugs are assigned to a dev with no change in the last 
150 days

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?f1=days_elapsed&list_id=139333&o1=greaterthaneq&query_format=advanced&bug_status=ASSIGNED&v1=150&product=LibreOffice


Sorry, if the "why is not explained to you properly... There is a lot of 
information in the queries and I don't have time now to continue 
writing. Sorry





We have >10 years of OOo/LO without such API, so why do you think it would be
very helpful right now? IOW, which *current* problem is supposed to be solved by
this API?

See above



IIRC, the current bottle neck in QA is triaging and early testing, so don't you
think we should better concentrate forces on triaging+testing and not split 
efforts?

However, I don't want to discourage the initiative. If there is a substantial
drive towards developing the API now, do it. But if it takes ressources from
dev/QA people and distracts them from doing their regular tasks, then please
wait two or three months until unconfirmed bug queue approaches Zero and a
performant early testing workflow has been established ;-)


and /ad rem/ :

(Apart from the skepticism above, I'm very much in favour of making bug
reporting easy, of course.)

I made

a graphic (http://goo.gl/dHWhu)

(Nice workflow, no objections at first glance.)

Thanks



Nino
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Yours

Florian
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [proposal] [QA-WE Essen 2012] Bug submission API - How to improve the current system

2012-10-04 Thread Michael Meeks 

On Wed, 2012-10-03 at 21:19 +0200, Nino Novak wrote:
> > To cut it short, we came to the conclusion, that a Bug
>> Submission API (BS-API) would be very helpful. 
> 
> Could you elaborate a little the "why?"?

Heh - it sounds like a nice way to report bugs to me. Of course, it
also sounds like it would need a built-in bug reporting assistant inside
LibreOffice - which would be quite some coding work.

> (Apart from the skepticism above, I'm very much in favour of making bug
> reporting easy, of course.)

Yep :-) IMHO we have still quite a long way to go to improve the web
bugzilla assistant that can capture a lot of this goodness. In
particular, I'd love to have questions about whether it worked in old
versions in there - so we can auto-generate the "regression" keyword;
internationalise that better, add more details on binary chopping down
documents, and so on. And the biggest blocker there is openID
integration of course - we should poke Tollef about progress there.

So - in general, I'd love to improve what we have there - though the
web doesn't provide the ideal interface for easily building beautiful
bug reports IMHO ;-) eg. the useful screenshotting functionality is
rather tough there AFAIK.

ATB,

Michael.

-- 
michael.me...@suse.com  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [proposal] [QA-WE Essen 2012] Bug submission API - How to improve the current system

2012-10-03 Thread Nino Novak 
Hi Florian,

Am 03.10.2012 18:43 schrieb Florian Reisinger:

> During the German QA meeting some ideas developed.

thanks for reporting.

 To cut it short, we came to
> the conclusion, that a Bug Submission API (BS-API) would be very helpful. 

Could you elaborate a little the "why?"?

We have >10 years of OOo/LO without such API, so why do you think it would be
very helpful right now? IOW, which *current* problem is supposed to be solved by
this API?

IIRC, the current bottle neck in QA is triaging and early testing, so don't you
think we should better concentrate forces on triaging+testing and not split 
efforts?

However, I don't want to discourage the initiative. If there is a substantial
drive towards developing the API now, do it. But if it takes ressources from
dev/QA people and distracts them from doing their regular tasks, then please
wait two or three months until unconfirmed bug queue approaches Zero and a
performant early testing workflow has been established ;-)


and /ad rem/ :

(Apart from the skepticism above, I'm very much in favour of making bug
reporting easy, of course.)

I made
> a graphic (http://goo.gl/dHWhu)

(Nice workflow, no objections at first glance.)

Nino
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[Libreoffice-qa] [proposal] [QA-WE Essen 2012] Bug submission API - How to improve the current system

2012-10-03 Thread Florian Reisinger 

Hello all!


During the German QA meeting some ideas developed. To cut it short, we 
came to the conclusion, that a Bug Submission API (BS-API) would be very 
helpful. I made a graphic (http://goo.gl/dHWhu) which should demonstrate 
a possible solution ( in this very diagram the green field is the goal, 
and the red one an error. The dark blue rectangle is the start, the 
light blue ones represent dialogues. If there are any questions, don't 
hesitate and ask at the QA mailinglist.(Please don't replay on any other 
list --- thanks). This diagram should be a program flow chart and 
visualize every step, how a bug report could be semi-automatic reported. 
The platform for reproducing, creating a step by step introduction how 
to reproduce the bugs. Only experts have assess to bugzilla. 
[@freedesktop.org Account related permissions are impossible -- Sorry 
Florian E.] Every language can have its own ML for doing that (IMHO the 
users@ ML is a great place for doing that) This would simplify bug 
submission for the end user and the frustration of both, QAler and 
end-user when a bug has not been touched for a long time OR the end user 
doesn't give needed input.



Reaching ~200 words of description, first let me thank you reading all 
this stuff and thinking about that. So, now be prepared for the "result" 
of a test right from the German discuss ML or simply answer ;) - I want 
to extend the idea more, if I get positive input by the way ;)



As said above this idea developed during the QA weekend. I had time to 
think about it and due to the fact that I found 2 nice bugs, which I 
mailed at the German discuss ML. All in all I wanted to submit 2 bugs in 
3 minutes, so the reports where, let's say it polite, short and 
contained some useful information, but not all (That's because I had to 
less time). So after 36h here are the results: Productive work has been 
done and one bug couldn't be reproduced by anyone, including me, the 
second one could not be reproduced, but I still can reproduce it on a 
German paralle installation @ Win 7 x64 on a different PC, but I think 
that will work...



So, I will stop now. If I continue writing nobody will be interested in 
reading this ;). If there s any question feel free to ask at the QA ML. 
libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org 
 (Maybe I have missed an 
important point, sorry for that, but the email is currently to long, too...)



Yours

Florian R.

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