[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|needsUXEval |
 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |tietze.he...@gmail.com
   |.freedesktop.org|

--- Comment #56 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Paul's comment 55 sounds like the best compromise here. Everything that is a
style is taken from the template and gets updated when the template changes.
All other features such as fields, shapes, or images are ignored. Sounds very
much like the experimental document theme and why should both do the same?

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #55 from Paul  ---
Hi guys,

This is an important feature for me. IIUC, there seems to be some controversy
over what changing the underlying document template should do.

The current LO scheme, of asking to update Styles only, is to my mind the
correct one. Content built into a template is never written over an existing
document, only styles are.

So then, what's the need of changing the underlying template? So that a
document's styles can stay synced with a template of choice.

The current problem comes when a document is radically changed. For instance, I
recently took a long document and changed it from a normal 8.5x11 page to a
2-up 5.5x8.5 mirrored book format, and chose an inverted color scheme for
readability. Virtually all the styles were affected, and now I dare not sync
that document to its original template, which it is stuck with. I want to
assign a "graybook" template to it, but cannot. Any improvements I make to my
graybook template cannot be carried over to any document not bearing its formal
lineage.

The alternative, I guess, would be to copy/paste all document contents to a
blank "graybook" document and resave, but I'm not sure all content, such as
foot/endnotes, would make the transition. Something that radical, IMO, should
not be necessary.

So the issue of changing templates, in my mind, is about Styles, and nothing
more. Themes is a related but subtly different concept, whereby a document's
text styles can be quickly changed, with visual feedback on the fly, without
affecting page settings. We can approximate this by use of different templates,
but Themes makes the function much more accessible, IME.

My vote would be that this is core functionality. It could be done in several
ways, but I think the most intuitive would be at the Manage Templates dialog,
where an "Apply Template to Current Document" command could be added.

BW

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #54 from Cor Nouws  ---
Thanks for your summary, Thomas,

(In reply to Thomas Lendo from comment #53)

> Misunderstandings
> -
> Second hope is that nobody closes this long-standing issue without knowing
> what the extension already did and does (I assume that because of the
...

In general the "I don't get this issue and don't need it, so close the
issue"-rate is very low here :)

> additionally: The original author has no interest in the extension anymore.
...

For me it is marked as (possibly) todo.

> MSO
> ---
> I tested MSO Word 2013 and only styles (paragraph, character, list and
> table) will be imported or updated. No page content, no page (style)
...

Which is logic. MsOffice doesn't have page styles (poor users), and those and
content of the page styles (such as images in headers) is therefore not
imported.

> UI
> --
> What design team should discuss at a starting point is where should the
> template/style association can be edited in the GUI. (See last sentence in
> comment 49 or comment 52 or last point in comment 42.)

Good idea. IMO.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #53 from Thomas Lendo  ---
I haven't said much in the design meeting yesterday as all was said in this
long bug report. I hope Stuart will read the comments and maybe test the
extension so that we have another opinion.

Misunderstandings
-
Second hope is that nobody closes this long-standing issue without knowing what
the extension already did and does (I assume that because of the comments that
were made) and what good help it is for current extension users. I explained
the problems with the extension in comment 42. And additionally: The original
author has no interest in the extension anymore.

Naming/scope

Third, I wouldn't attach importance to the wording "template". Template, style,
document theme--nothing but smoke and mirrors. Precisely the extension is more
a "styles changer" based on a specific template file. That's wanted as core
feature in LO. (I don't know what the extension does, someone who can read the
code should evaluate that.)

MSO
---
I tested MSO Word 2013 and only styles (paragraph, character, list and table)
will be imported or updated. No page content, no page (style) definitions, no
pictures, no frames, no objects, no fields, no header data, no footer data, no
file properties (like title or company) will be changed or touched.

UI
--
What design team should discuss at a starting point is where should the
template/style association can be edited in the GUI. (See last sentence in
comment 49 or comment 52 or last point in comment 42.)

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #52 from Jon Grossart  ---
Most of the functionality to implement this enhancement are already present.

1. if a template is updated, LibreOffice already asks if you want to update the
styles when you open a document based on it
2. there is already code to manually load/update styles.

What would be needed in the GUI to allow someone to change the associated
template and the code to call the exist code to update the styles (which could
probably even be a force close/reopen since that code path already does that in
some way).

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #50 from Cor Nouws  ---
a template changes that does not have the ability/function to change the linked
template is a bad idea.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #51 from Cor Nouws  ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #50)
> a template changes that does not have the ability/function to change the
> linked template is a bad idea.

a template changes => a template changer

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #49 from Thomas Lendo  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #43)
> * Feature: Do we really want this workflow? Should document and template be
> linked so that changes to the template become effective later?
As Pierre C said in comment 45 and Patrick Smits in comment 47, the current
workflow with the extension is sufficient and need not to be changed. Please
test the extension and you will see. For a developer, the extension can be the
reference.

> * Scope: How about textboxes, containing the company address for instance?
> We can start with a basic set of course.
As far as I know, textboxes and other objects are not in the scope of the
extension. I wouldn't extend the scope of the feature by now. It worked very
well till now.

> * Workflow: How do we edit the template? We could ask the user whether a
> template should be opened and edited as it or applied to the current
> document. Alternatively an extra command "Apply template" could be better.
> The integration into the template manager is unclear.
As Patrick Smits said in comment 47, nothing has to be changed in the template
manager or in the workflow with linked files. You can edit a template with the
template manager. Editing the template always opens the current template
available in the template manager.
The only new that has to be implemented is the place where the link to a
template can be applied or changed or deleted (as I said in the last point in
my comment 42).

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #48 from Patrick Smits  ---
Created attachment 139112
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=139112=edit
LibreOffice already asks whether styles should be updated

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #47 from Patrick Smits  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #43)
> * Feature: Do we really want this workflow? Should document and template be
> linked so that changes to the template become effective later?

I a new file is derived from a template (via the File > Templates > Manage
Templates menu of File > New > Templates menu), the file is already linked to
the template. 

This can be checked via File > Properties > General > Template.

So nothing new here.

> * Scope: How about textboxes, containing the company address for instance?
> We can start with a basic set of course.

Templates are all about standardization, not just styles, but also headers,
footers, text boxes etc.

To get a good impression about what should be included, please check
https://templates.office.com

> * Workflow: How do we edit the template? We could ask the user whether a
> template should be opened and edited as it or applied to the current
> document. Alternatively an extra command "Apply template" could be better.
> The integration into the template manager is unclear.


Templates can be edited via Manage Templates. Click right on a template and
select Edit.

If a template is edited and a linked file is opened LibreOffice already asks
whether styles should be updated. See attachment.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #46 from Patrick Smits  ---
(In reply to Thomas Lendo from comment #42)
> Since "Template Changer" at LibO's extension website isn't working as
> intended (because 1) it doesn't link or change the template link that is
> visible in File > Properties... > General > Template, 2) you got an error
> and some styles are not updated and 3) the updated extension version 1.2.7d
> isn't available officially)

Hi Thomas,

Version 1.2.7d is available at
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60592#c16.

Today I tried to make 1.2.7c and d available at the Extensions repository, but
I couldn't find a way to add it to
https://extensions.libreoffice.org/extensions/template-changer.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #45 from Pierre C  ---
>* Feature: Do we really want this workflow? Should document and template be 
>linked so that changes to the template become effective later?

This is the current behaviour !
If you use a template, the new document created with this template is linked to
it ?
each modification of the template will be propagated to your document when you
open it and you answer yes when UI ask you so.

Anyone want to break this feature ?

16 user folows this bug. Template changer was one of the most used extension
(now its broken since LO 4)

It is also a feature request for AOO
(https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=52783) with 18 votes.

This feature exists in M$ office for ages

Yes, I think it's a "must have" for advanced users

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

--- Comment #44 from Heiko Tietze  ---
*** Bug 89286 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 50699] Template Changer: Allow ability to change a document' s associated template

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50699

Adolfo Jayme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks|111990  |


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=111990
[Bug 111990] UX and enhancement issues favored by Thomas.Lendo
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