How About The Apache License?

2000-07-23 Thread Craig R. McClanahan
Please forgive the newbie-to-this-list question (the list server is obstinately refusing to let me access previous messages except one at a time by index number) ... I am one of the contributors to the Tomcat project, which is under the Jakarta project umbrella at Apache

Re: prohibiting use that would result in death or personal injury

2000-07-23 Thread Rick Moen
begin Derek J. Balling quotation: You seem to misunderstand and believe that the "correct" ideal for your jurisdiction matches the "correct" conclusion for all other jurisdictions. Either I'm missing something, here, or you are, or you're just trying to be argumentative. Regardless of

Re: RMS on Plan 9 license, with my comments

2000-07-23 Thread Matthew C. Weigel
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, David Johnson wrote: and may, at Your option, include a reasonable charge for the cost of any media. This seems to limit the price that may be charged for an initial distribution, prohibiting selling copies for a profit. I don't think this is really a

Re: RMS on Plan 9 license, with my comments

2000-07-23 Thread David Johnson
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Matthew C. Weigel wrote: But there is, potentially, a difference -- someone can take you to court over whether your fee was 'reasonable.' The GPL has no such limits: The clause in question does not state that Lucent gets to decide what is "reasonable". For all intents and

Re: prohibiting use that would result in death or personal injury

2000-07-23 Thread Rick Moen
begin Derek J. Balling quotation: No, I was just addressing the comment of "well, the disclaimer clause is enough and it just requires judges ruling the correct way" (paraphrased), to which I was indicating that what you and I consider "correct" may not match the legal statutes of some

Re: RMS on Plan 9 license, with my comments

2000-07-23 Thread David Johnson
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Matthew Weigel wrote: The clause in question does not state that Lucent gets to decide what is "reasonable". For all intents and purposes, if a buyer and a sell agree on a price, it is reasonable. As such, it is a meaningless adjective. You are trying to treat the

Re: prohibiting use that would result in death or personal injury

2000-07-23 Thread Justin Wells
On Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 01:51:04PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: This software is not designed or intended for use in real-time or on-line control of nuclear, chemical, aviation, medical, or life-safety critical systems. I'm going to adopt this language in my license for

Re: RMS on Plan 9 license, with my comments

2000-07-23 Thread Matthew Weigel
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, David Johnson wrote: You are trying to treat the license as a cut and dried technical statement, and it's not; its application includes jurisdiction, precedence, judge, and jury. Any one of those can make a decision about what 'reasonable' means. All too often it

RE: RMS on Plan 9 license, with my comments

2000-07-23 Thread SamBC
Why not specify in the license what 'reasonable' means. I would simply state (as I have seen) "You will not be required at any point to justify a charge as reasonable to anyone except the party(ies) whom you are charging" SamBC -Original Message- From: Matthew Weigel [mailto:[EMAIL

Re: RMS on Plan 9 license, with my comments

2000-07-23 Thread David Johnson
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Matthew Weigel wrote: Is there a problem with deleting the word reasonable? Are you simply arguing that it doesn't need to be deleted, that it's too small detail to matter? Because we don't know what reasonable might mean in a court room, and it might make a

RE: prohibiting use that would result in death or personal injury

2000-07-23 Thread SamBC
-Original Message- From: Derek J. Balling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] SNIP Wasn't trying to be argumentative, and I don't think "no further comment is required". I really think this is an issue that requires some attention, on one front or another I agree - there should be

RE: prohibiting use that would result in death or personal injury

2000-07-23 Thread Rod Dixon, J.D., LL.M.
I am reading this out of the context of the entire license, but the wording seems fine. Please excuse me from repeating what others may have already said. I think this language is good and could be enhanced with an additional phrase or two depending on your purpose. For example, as you have

RE: RMS on Plan 9 license, with my comments

2000-07-23 Thread Rod Dixon, J.D., LL.M.
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, John Cowan wrote: This prohibits modifications for private use, denying the users a basic right I agree with RMS here. Not allowing the private use of private changes is way unreasonable. As a practical matter, though, this is just as meaningless as arguing

Re: RMS on Plan 9 license, with my comments

2000-07-23 Thread Matthew C. Weigel
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, David Johnson wrote: On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Matthew Weigel wrote: Is there a problem with deleting the word reasonable? Are you simply arguing that it doesn't need to be deleted, that it's too small detail to matter? Because we don't know what reasonable might mean

RE: RMS on Plan 9 license, with my comments

2000-07-23 Thread Rod Dixon, J.D., LL.M.
I think the fact that the Plan 9 license is not written in the clearest language has resulted in Stillman reading some of the provisions in a manner they were not intended. Although I do not favor the U.S. export regulations (even the revised regulations are faulty), Stillman cannot be correct