[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Jim Barrows]

To which I say everybody hamster dance for
joy!

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 7:21 PM, David Pollak  wrote:

> You are banned from this group.
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Aule  wrote:
>
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>> Been there, tried that.
>> Oh - the mime type is "text/vnd.curl"
>>
>> Btw, actually a threat has been conveyed to me at mail.google.com and
>> I have protested to Google
>>
>> I can't imagine Dave Hansen or MArtin Odersky or Bill Venners or Lex
>> Spoon sending me a threat, but so it goes ...
>>
>> At least I will not get 4 years in an Egyptian prison for insulting
>> Randy's Alma Mater (Madison).
>>
>> Oh Randy.  I read my Paul Valéry in the original.  www.hsinfosystems.com
>> is missing the accent on his surname.
>>
>> Lift is not Scala; I will continue to recommend Scala.
>>
>> For me, the jury on Lift is not yet in.  When some sycophants of
>> Seaside got, nasty, I did not walk away from Seaside, warts and all.
>>
>> R
>>
>> On Oct 13, 8:10 pm, Bryan  wrote:
>> > Hi Aule,
>> >
>> > > I am still looking to see if I over-looked somewhere on the web where
>> > > there is a 1.0.2 Boot.scala
>> >
>> > >   1) showing unambiguously how to flip the default Content-Type
>> > >   2) and having, in fact, the intended effect
>> >
>> > >  as I now know from a few trials over a few hours that this is not as
>> > > simple as some web posts present.
>> >
>> > I have not had a need for this, so I had to search some "web posts" to
>> > find the answer.  Quckly, I found the following snippet:
>> >
>> > LiftRules.determineContentType = {
>> >   case _ => "text/curl"
>> >
>> > }
>> >
>> > I have not verified this, so please let us know if it does not help.
>> >
>> > > Were it trivial, I had not mocked a framework, and you, Mr. Pollock,
>> > > had not raged.
>> >
>> > From my readings, Mr. Pollak has yet to show any rage.
>> >
>> > --Bryan
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Surf the harmonics
>
> >
>


-- 
James A Barrows

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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[David Pollak]

You are banned from this group.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Aule  wrote:

>
> Bryan
>
> Been there, tried that.
> Oh - the mime type is "text/vnd.curl"
>
> Btw, actually a threat has been conveyed to me at mail.google.com and
> I have protested to Google
>
> I can't imagine Dave Hansen or MArtin Odersky or Bill Venners or Lex
> Spoon sending me a threat, but so it goes ...
>
> At least I will not get 4 years in an Egyptian prison for insulting
> Randy's Alma Mater (Madison).
>
> Oh Randy.  I read my Paul Valéry in the original.  www.hsinfosystems.com
> is missing the accent on his surname.
>
> Lift is not Scala; I will continue to recommend Scala.
>
> For me, the jury on Lift is not yet in.  When some sycophants of
> Seaside got, nasty, I did not walk away from Seaside, warts and all.
>
> R
>
> On Oct 13, 8:10 pm, Bryan  wrote:
> > Hi Aule,
> >
> > > I am still looking to see if I over-looked somewhere on the web where
> > > there is a 1.0.2 Boot.scala
> >
> > >   1) showing unambiguously how to flip the default Content-Type
> > >   2) and having, in fact, the intended effect
> >
> > >  as I now know from a few trials over a few hours that this is not as
> > > simple as some web posts present.
> >
> > I have not had a need for this, so I had to search some "web posts" to
> > find the answer.  Quckly, I found the following snippet:
> >
> > LiftRules.determineContentType = {
> >   case _ => "text/curl"
> >
> > }
> >
> > I have not verified this, so please let us know if it does not help.
> >
> > > Were it trivial, I had not mocked a framework, and you, Mr. Pollock,
> > > had not raged.
> >
> > From my readings, Mr. Pollak has yet to show any rage.
> >
> > --Bryan
>
> >
>


-- 
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
Surf the harmonics

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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Naftoli Gugenheim]

Can you please stop making it sound like you expect to speak rudely about Lift 
and get polite responses? Or are you completely unaware of how you sound?

-
Aule wrote:


Bryan

Been there, tried that.
Oh - the mime type is "text/vnd.curl"

Btw, actually a threat has been conveyed to me at mail.google.com and
I have protested to Google

I can't imagine Dave Hansen or MArtin Odersky or Bill Venners or Lex
Spoon sending me a threat, but so it goes ...

At least I will not get 4 years in an Egyptian prison for insulting
Randy's Alma Mater (Madison).

Oh Randy.  I read my Paul Valéry in the original.  www.hsinfosystems.com
is missing the accent on his surname.

Lift is not Scala; I will continue to recommend Scala.

For me, the jury on Lift is not yet in.  When some sycophants of
Seaside got, nasty, I did not walk away from Seaside, warts and all.

R

On Oct 13, 8:10 pm, Bryan  wrote:
> Hi Aule,
>
> > I am still looking to see if I over-looked somewhere on the web where
> > there is a 1.0.2 Boot.scala
>
> >   1) showing unambiguously how to flip the default Content-Type
> >   2) and having, in fact, the intended effect
>
> >  as I now know from a few trials over a few hours that this is not as
> > simple as some web posts present.
>
> I have not had a need for this, so I had to search some "web posts" to
> find the answer.  Quckly, I found the following snippet:
>
> LiftRules.determineContentType = {
>   case _ => "text/curl"
>
> }
>
> I have not verified this, so please let us know if it does not help.
>
> > Were it trivial, I had not mocked a framework, and you, Mr. Pollock,
> > had not raged.
>
> From my readings, Mr. Pollak has yet to show any rage.
>
> --Bryan



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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[TylerWeir]

I feel we should all just step away from this discussion, it's not
getting us anywhere.

Tyler

On Oct 13, 9:24 pm, Aule  wrote:
> Bryan
>
> Been there, tried that.
> Oh - the mime type is "text/vnd.curl"
>
> Btw, actually a threat has been conveyed to me at mail.google.com and
> I have protested to Google
>
> I can't imagine Dave Hansen or MArtin Odersky or Bill Venners or Lex
> Spoon sending me a threat, but so it goes ...
>
> At least I will not get 4 years in an Egyptian prison for insulting
> Randy's Alma Mater (Madison).
>
> Oh Randy.  I read my Paul Valéry in the original.  www.hsinfosystems.com
> is missing the accent on his surname.
>
> Lift is not Scala; I will continue to recommend Scala.
>
> For me, the jury on Lift is not yet in.  When some sycophants of
> Seaside got, nasty, I did not walk away from Seaside, warts and all.
>
> R
>
> On Oct 13, 8:10 pm, Bryan  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Aule,
>
> > > I am still looking to see if I over-looked somewhere on the web where
> > > there is a 1.0.2 Boot.scala
>
> > >   1) showing unambiguously how to flip the default Content-Type
> > >   2) and having, in fact, the intended effect
>
> > >  as I now know from a few trials over a few hours that this is not as
> > > simple as some web posts present.
>
> > I have not had a need for this, so I had to search some "web posts" to
> > find the answer.  Quckly, I found the following snippet:
>
> > LiftRules.determineContentType = {
> >   case _ => "text/curl"
>
> > }
>
> > I have not verified this, so please let us know if it does not help.
>
> > > Were it trivial, I had not mocked a framework, and you, Mr. Pollock,
> > > had not raged.
>
> > From my readings, Mr. Pollak has yet to show any rage.
>
> > --Bryan
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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Aule]

Bryan

Been there, tried that.
Oh - the mime type is "text/vnd.curl"

Btw, actually a threat has been conveyed to me at mail.google.com and
I have protested to Google

I can't imagine Dave Hansen or MArtin Odersky or Bill Venners or Lex
Spoon sending me a threat, but so it goes ...

At least I will not get 4 years in an Egyptian prison for insulting
Randy's Alma Mater (Madison).

Oh Randy.  I read my Paul Valéry in the original.  www.hsinfosystems.com
is missing the accent on his surname.

Lift is not Scala; I will continue to recommend Scala.

For me, the jury on Lift is not yet in.  When some sycophants of
Seaside got, nasty, I did not walk away from Seaside, warts and all.

R

On Oct 13, 8:10 pm, Bryan  wrote:
> Hi Aule,
>
> > I am still looking to see if I over-looked somewhere on the web where
> > there is a 1.0.2 Boot.scala
>
> >   1) showing unambiguously how to flip the default Content-Type
> >   2) and having, in fact, the intended effect
>
> >  as I now know from a few trials over a few hours that this is not as
> > simple as some web posts present.
>
> I have not had a need for this, so I had to search some "web posts" to
> find the answer.  Quckly, I found the following snippet:
>
> LiftRules.determineContentType = {
>   case _ => "text/curl"
>
> }
>
> I have not verified this, so please let us know if it does not help.
>
> > Were it trivial, I had not mocked a framework, and you, Mr. Pollock,
> > had not raged.
>
> From my readings, Mr. Pollak has yet to show any rage.
>
> --Bryan

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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Bryan]

Hi Aule,

> I am still looking to see if I over-looked somewhere on the web where
> there is a 1.0.2 Boot.scala
>
>   1) showing unambiguously how to flip the default Content-Type
>   2) and having, in fact, the intended effect
>
>  as I now know from a few trials over a few hours that this is not as
> simple as some web posts present.

I have not had a need for this, so I had to search some "web posts" to
find the answer.  Quckly, I found the following snippet:

LiftRules.determineContentType = {
  case _ => "text/curl"
}

I have not verified this, so please let us know if it does not help.

> Were it trivial, I had not mocked a framework, and you, Mr. Pollock,
> had not raged.

>From my readings, Mr. Pollak has yet to show any rage.

--Bryan

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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Bill Venners]

Hi David,

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:37 PM, David Pollak
 wrote:
> Why does Lift use XHTML rather than Strings or something else for
> templating?  Because XML is a secure (and fast) representation.  While PHP
> sites have significant cross site scripting problems, Lift apps have none
> (and I've been through half a dozen penetration test with Lift apps and the
> universal evaluation is "this is the most secure web site we've ever
> tested.")
>
Can you elaborate on how XHTML eliminates the XSS potential of
strings? Doesn't an XHTML file have strings in it in between the
markup?

Bill

Bill Venners
Artima, Inc.
http://www.artima.com

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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Randall R Schulz]

On Tuesday October 13 2009, David Pollak wrote:
> Okay,
> Not to put too fine a point on it, but:
>
>1. create a new Lift project
>2. put "foo.curl" in src/main/webapp
>3. start application (mvn jetty:run)
>4. Browse to http://localhost:8080/foo.curl
>
> Now, that required way too much configuration (none).  It was too
> hard to try (trying it rather than yelling about how out of touch we
> folks in Lift-land are.)

This individual certainly provides a stark contrast with the person a 
week or so ago who, while new to programming itself, was ready to take 
the plunge and learn something as sophisticated as Web programming in a 
non-trivial framework using a language many experienced professionals 
struggle to use well.

One has to wonder which will achieve their respective goals first?

(The last we heard from that intrepid fellow, he'd taken the plunge and 
subsequently even answered another newcomer who was having trouble with 
Maven's archetype:generate.)


Randall Schulz

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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Aule]

Trivial, true and does nothing to change the default output at

   http://localhost:8080/

I am still looking to see if I over-looked somewhere on the web where
there is a 1.0.2 Boot.scala

   1) showing unambiguously how to flip the default Content-Type
   2) and having, in fact, the intended effect

 as I now know from a few trials over a few hours that this is not as
simple as some web posts present.

And I'm using Opera 10 which does a decent job of throwing up error
pages.

Were it trivial, I had not mocked a framework, and you, Mr. Pollock,
had not raged.

As ever,

Cheers

On Oct 13, 7:08 pm, David Pollak 
wrote:
> Okay,
> Not to put too fine a point on it, but:
>
>    1. create a new Lift project
>    2. put "foo.curl" in src/main/webapp
>    3. start application (mvn jetty:run)
>    4. Browse tohttp://localhost:8080/foo.curl
>
> Now, that required way too much configuration (none).  It was too hard to
> try (trying it rather than yelling about how out of touch we folks in
> Lift-land are.)
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:37 PM, David Pollak 
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > Please do not come into this group guns all blazing, insulting our choices
> > of technology when you have not asked any questions or done some very simple
> > review of the code athttp://demo.liftweb.net(also found in the
> > examples/example folder in the Lift source).  If you do not change your
> > attitude, you will not be welcome in this forum.  I will not positively
> > moderate another insulting message like this, but instead, you will find
> > yourself the second person in the history of Lift banned from this forum.
> > Maven is the build system that we have settled on.  Lift will build with
> > other build systems as well.  There are people using SBT as well as Ant and
> > Buildr for Lift projects.  Maven and Maven's use of XML for configuration
> > files have nothing to do with Lift's templating system.  Continuing to mix
> > these two things up is a pretty good indicator that you do not understand
> > the technology.
>
> > Here are a couple of other statements that demonstrate a lack of
> > understanding:
>
> >    - "The author of the Scala 2.7.6 
> >     compatible Lift 1.0.1 " : Lift is at Scala 2.7.5.
> >     2.7.6 was a broken release.  Lift was at 1.0.1 for less than 1 week and
> >    1.0.2 is the correct version.  Get your facts right.
> >    - "So long as anything you output as web content has an HTTP response
> >    payload starting with ?xml version=" As I stated in my prior response, 
> > Lift
> >    can generate *any* form of HTTP response.  Lift can return any stream of
> >    bytes with any Content-Type as a response.
> >    - "All that is needed is access to the HTTP header.  Nothing in
> >    HTTP dictates XML." and as I've already responded, with a single line, 
> > you
> >    can output any stream of bytes with any header information.
>
> > Why does Lift use XHTML rather than Strings or something else for
> > templating?  Because XML is a secure (and fast) representation.  While PHP
> > sites have significant cross site scripting problems, Lift apps have none
> > (and I've been through half a dozen penetration test with Lift apps and the
> > universal evaluation is "this is the most secure web site we've ever
> > tested.")  If you want to serve non-(X)HTML, it's a single line and if you
> > had asked (even less than politely), I would have put together an example
> > for you, because that's what I and other people in this forum do for
> > newbies.
>
> > If you want some help, ask and please be polite (at this point, you'll need
> > an extra dose of polite to get any more response from me).  If you want to
> > tell us how stupid or clueless or whatever we are, you can go somewhere
> > else.  Or, as one member of the Lift community communicated to me "I think
> > you should find a happy lift user wherever it is that Aule lives and ask
> > them to go to his house and give him a nice, sanctimonious, punch to the
> > face."
>
> > David
>
> > On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Aule  wrote:
>
> >> I am not confused.  Not about this technology and not about a few
> >> others.  Just say where that inobvious one line would go.  Precisely.
> >> Because nowhere on the web is there a simple example of a corrected
> >> Lift Boot.scala file.
>
> >> And then perhaps consider whether that arcane change is comparable to
> >> what is required in any comparable web framework to flip the default
> >> MIME type for HTTP responses.  Prior to my intervention that was about
> >> what it took for Seaside for Smalltalk (Smalltalk, the grandparent of
> >> all MVC frameworks ... but it has variants, and I am confused about
> >> none of them.)
>
> >> Someone at Lift may over-estimate both XML and XHTML.  Could be from
> >> an excess of Maven.  I wouldn't know ...
>
> >> But you do seem unaware that not all HTTP reponse payloads start with
> >> an XML prolog (  ) or an XML !DOCTYPE.
>
> >> Perha

[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[David Pollak]

Okay,
Not to put too fine a point on it, but:

   1. create a new Lift project
   2. put "foo.curl" in src/main/webapp
   3. start application (mvn jetty:run)
   4. Browse to http://localhost:8080/foo.curl

Now, that required way too much configuration (none).  It was too hard to
try (trying it rather than yelling about how out of touch we folks in
Lift-land are.)

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:37 PM, David Pollak  wrote:

> Please do not come into this group guns all blazing, insulting our choices
> of technology when you have not asked any questions or done some very simple
> review of the code at http://demo.liftweb.net (also found in the
> examples/example folder in the Lift source).  If you do not change your
> attitude, you will not be welcome in this forum.  I will not positively
> moderate another insulting message like this, but instead, you will find
> yourself the second person in the history of Lift banned from this forum.
> Maven is the build system that we have settled on.  Lift will build with
> other build systems as well.  There are people using SBT as well as Ant and
> Buildr for Lift projects.  Maven and Maven's use of XML for configuration
> files have nothing to do with Lift's templating system.  Continuing to mix
> these two things up is a pretty good indicator that you do not understand
> the technology.
>
> Here are a couple of other statements that demonstrate a lack of
> understanding:
>
>- "The author of the Scala 2.7.6 
> compatible Lift 1.0.1 " : Lift is at Scala 2.7.5.
> 2.7.6 was a broken release.  Lift was at 1.0.1 for less than 1 week and
>1.0.2 is the correct version.  Get your facts right.
>- "So long as anything you output as web content has an HTTP response
>payload starting with ?xml version=" As I stated in my prior response, Lift
>can generate *any* form of HTTP response.  Lift can return any stream of
>bytes with any Content-Type as a response.
>- "All that is needed is access to the HTTP header.  Nothing in
>HTTP dictates XML." and as I've already responded, with a single line, you
>can output any stream of bytes with any header information.
>
> Why does Lift use XHTML rather than Strings or something else for
> templating?  Because XML is a secure (and fast) representation.  While PHP
> sites have significant cross site scripting problems, Lift apps have none
> (and I've been through half a dozen penetration test with Lift apps and the
> universal evaluation is "this is the most secure web site we've ever
> tested.")  If you want to serve non-(X)HTML, it's a single line and if you
> had asked (even less than politely), I would have put together an example
> for you, because that's what I and other people in this forum do for
> newbies.
>
> If you want some help, ask and please be polite (at this point, you'll need
> an extra dose of polite to get any more response from me).  If you want to
> tell us how stupid or clueless or whatever we are, you can go somewhere
> else.  Or, as one member of the Lift community communicated to me "I think
> you should find a happy lift user wherever it is that Aule lives and ask
> them to go to his house and give him a nice, sanctimonious, punch to the
> face."
>
> David
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Aule  wrote:
>
>>
>> I am not confused.  Not about this technology and not about a few
>> others.  Just say where that inobvious one line would go.  Precisely.
>> Because nowhere on the web is there a simple example of a corrected
>> Lift Boot.scala file.
>>
>> And then perhaps consider whether that arcane change is comparable to
>> what is required in any comparable web framework to flip the default
>> MIME type for HTTP responses.  Prior to my intervention that was about
>> what it took for Seaside for Smalltalk (Smalltalk, the grandparent of
>> all MVC frameworks ... but it has variants, and I am confused about
>> none of them.)
>>
>> Someone at Lift may over-estimate both XML and XHTML.  Could be from
>> an excess of Maven.  I wouldn't know ...
>>
>> But you do seem unaware that not all HTTP reponse payloads start with
>> an XML prolog (  ) or an XML !DOCTYPE.
>>
>> Perhaps it is you who has lost perspective on the evolution of MVC-
>> variants over the past 20+ years ...
>>
>> R
>>
>> On Oct 13, 5:33 pm, David Pollak 
>> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Aule  wrote:
>> >
>> > > Over at
>> > >http://eclectic-pencil.blogspot.com/2009/10/curlgen-using-scala-lift-.
>> ..
>> > > I could not help poking a little fun.
>> >
>> > > Perhaps someone could set me right on just what it would take to
>> > > configure a site to output non-HTML web content.
>> >
>> > 1 lines of code:
>> >
>> > case Req(path, _, GetRequest) =>
>> > Full(InMemoryResponse(calculateBytesForCurlResponse(path),
>> > List("Content-Type" -> "text/curl"), Nil, 200))
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > The markup that I use is almost 10 years old and comes out of the MIT
>> > > tr

[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Jim Barrows]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:37 PM, David Pollak  wrote:
*snip*

>
> If you want some help, ask and please be polite (at this point, you'll need
> an extra dose of polite to get any more response from me).  If you want to
> tell us how stupid or clueless or whatever we are, you can go somewhere
> else.  Or, as one member of the Lift community communicated to me "I think
> you should find a happy lift user wherever it is that Aule lives and ask
> them to go to his house and give him a nice, sanctimonious, punch to the
> face."
>
>
Yes, I'm sure that David and the community member cited know that violence
is not the answer... I'm also sure they got it wrong on purpose.


-- 
James A Barrows

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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[David Pollak]

Please do not come into this group guns all blazing, insulting our choices
of technology when you have not asked any questions or done some very simple
review of the code at http://demo.liftweb.net (also found in the
examples/example folder in the Lift source).  If you do not change your
attitude, you will not be welcome in this forum.  I will not positively
moderate another insulting message like this, but instead, you will find
yourself the second person in the history of Lift banned from this forum.
Maven is the build system that we have settled on.  Lift will build with
other build systems as well.  There are people using SBT as well as Ant and
Buildr for Lift projects.  Maven and Maven's use of XML for configuration
files have nothing to do with Lift's templating system.  Continuing to mix
these two things up is a pretty good indicator that you do not understand
the technology.

Here are a couple of other statements that demonstrate a lack of
understanding:

   - "The author of the Scala 2.7.6 
compatible Lift
   1.0.1 " : Lift is at Scala 2.7.5.  2.7.6 was a
   broken release.  Lift was at 1.0.1 for less than 1 week and 1.0.2 is the
   correct version.  Get your facts right.
   - "So long as anything you output as web content has an HTTP response
   payload starting with ?xml version=" As I stated in my prior response, Lift
   can generate *any* form of HTTP response.  Lift can return any stream of
   bytes with any Content-Type as a response.
   - "All that is needed is access to the HTTP header.  Nothing in
   HTTP dictates XML." and as I've already responded, with a single line, you
   can output any stream of bytes with any header information.

Why does Lift use XHTML rather than Strings or something else for
templating?  Because XML is a secure (and fast) representation.  While PHP
sites have significant cross site scripting problems, Lift apps have none
(and I've been through half a dozen penetration test with Lift apps and the
universal evaluation is "this is the most secure web site we've ever
tested.")  If you want to serve non-(X)HTML, it's a single line and if you
had asked (even less than politely), I would have put together an example
for you, because that's what I and other people in this forum do for
newbies.

If you want some help, ask and please be polite (at this point, you'll need
an extra dose of polite to get any more response from me).  If you want to
tell us how stupid or clueless or whatever we are, you can go somewhere
else.  Or, as one member of the Lift community communicated to me "I think
you should find a happy lift user wherever it is that Aule lives and ask
them to go to his house and give him a nice, sanctimonious, punch to the
face."

David
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Aule  wrote:

>
> I am not confused.  Not about this technology and not about a few
> others.  Just say where that inobvious one line would go.  Precisely.
> Because nowhere on the web is there a simple example of a corrected
> Lift Boot.scala file.
>
> And then perhaps consider whether that arcane change is comparable to
> what is required in any comparable web framework to flip the default
> MIME type for HTTP responses.  Prior to my intervention that was about
> what it took for Seaside for Smalltalk (Smalltalk, the grandparent of
> all MVC frameworks ... but it has variants, and I am confused about
> none of them.)
>
> Someone at Lift may over-estimate both XML and XHTML.  Could be from
> an excess of Maven.  I wouldn't know ...
>
> But you do seem unaware that not all HTTP reponse payloads start with
> an XML prolog (  ) or an XML !DOCTYPE.
>
> Perhaps it is you who has lost perspective on the evolution of MVC-
> variants over the past 20+ years ...
>
> R
>
> On Oct 13, 5:33 pm, David Pollak 
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Aule  wrote:
> >
> > > Over at
> > >http://eclectic-pencil.blogspot.com/2009/10/curlgen-using-scala-lift-.
> ..
> > > I could not help poking a little fun.
> >
> > > Perhaps someone could set me right on just what it would take to
> > > configure a site to output non-HTML web content.
> >
> > 1 lines of code:
> >
> > case Req(path, _, GetRequest) =>
> > Full(InMemoryResponse(calculateBytesForCurlResponse(path),
> > List("Content-Type" -> "text/curl"), Nil, 200))
> >
> >
> >
> > > The markup that I use is almost 10 years old and comes out of the MIT
> > > tradition: Curl from developers.curl.com (no, not cURL from haxx.se )
> >
> > > Curl is elegant.  Curl is one language in place of many. And it is a
> > > client-side only framework.  It need not be seen as in competition
> > > with Scala.
> >
> > > Where is it easy to output Curl instead of XHTML or HTML?  Well, PHP,
> > > for one. Or plain old CGI.
> > > All that is needed is access to the HTTP header.  Nothing in HTTP
> > > dictates XML.
> >
> > Yep.  That's right and nothing in Lift dictates XHTML.  If you had asked
> a
> > simple question rather than making

[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Ross Mellgren]

It is hard to have a good attitude to help someone who comes in guns-a- 
blazin', but here's where the one line goes:

LiftRules.dispatch.append {
   case Req(path, _, GetRequest) => Full(InMemoryResponse(, List 
("Content-Type" -> "text/curl"), Nil, 200))
}

And you can override what happens on a 404 using LiftRules.uriNotFound  
I believe, or by just handling all paths in your dispatch if that's  
your thing.

For the kind of thing you're doing, you should really look around in  
the docs for LiftRules, as most of the request processing behavior is  
controlled there.

-Ross

On Oct 13, 2009, at 7:25 PM, Aule wrote:

>
> I am looking through a trace right now - and there is that XmlParser
> in spite of the dispatch change.
>
> So I have my doubts that anyone has taken the time to show that HTML
> itself can be turned off as the default MIME type for output ( Lift is
> not alone among web frameworks in that regard - especially for 404 and
> 500 pages)
>
>   scala.io.Source.reportError(Source.scala:344)
>   scala.xml.parsing.MarkupParser$class.reportSyntaxError
> (MarkupParser.scala:1113)
>   net.liftweb.util.PCDataXmlParser.reportSyntaxError
> (PCDataMarkupParser.scala:91)
>   scala.xml.parsing.MarkupParser$class.reportSyntaxError
> (MarkupParser.scala:1117)
>   net.liftweb.util.PCDataXmlParser.reportSyntaxError
> (PCDataMarkupParser.scala:91)
>   scala.xml.parsing.MarkupParser$class.document(MarkupParser.scala:186)
>   net.liftweb.util.PCDataXmlParser.document(PCDataMarkupParser.scala:
> 91)
>   net.liftweb.util.PCDataXmlParser$.apply(PCDataMarkupParser.scala:102)
>   net.liftweb.http.TemplateFinder$$anonfun$findAnyTemplate$1$$anonfun
> $apply$64.apply(LiftSession.scala:1096)
>   net.liftweb.http.TemplateFinder$$anonfun$findAnyTemplate$1$$anonfun
> $apply$64.apply(LiftSession.scala:1096)
>   net.liftweb.util.Full.flatMap(Box.scala:332)
>   net.liftweb.http.TemplateFinder$$anonfun$findAnyTemplate$1.apply
> (LiftSession.scala:1096)
>
> On Oct 13, 5:33 pm, David Pollak 
> wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Aule  wrote:
>>
>>> Over at
>>> http://eclectic-pencil.blogspot.com/2009/10/curlgen-using-scala-lift- 
>>> ...
>>> I could not help poking a little fun.
>>
>>> Perhaps someone could set me right on just what it would take to
>>> configure a site to output non-HTML web content.
>>
>> 1 lines of code:
>>
>> case Req(path, _, GetRequest) =>
>> Full(InMemoryResponse(calculateBytesForCurlResponse(path),
>> List("Content-Type" -> "text/curl"), Nil, 200))
>>
>>
>>
>>> The markup that I use is almost 10 years old and comes out of the  
>>> MIT
>>> tradition: Curl from developers.curl.com (no, not cURL from  
>>> haxx.se )
>>
>>> Curl is elegant.  Curl is one language in place of many. And it is a
>>> client-side only framework.  It need not be seen as in competition
>>> with Scala.
>>
>>> Where is it easy to output Curl instead of XHTML or HTML?  Well,  
>>> PHP,
>>> for one. Or plain old CGI.
>>> All that is needed is access to the HTTP header.  Nothing in HTTP
>>> dictates XML.
>>
>> Yep.  That's right and nothing in Lift dictates XHTML.  If you had  
>> asked a
>> simple question rather than making a long, ill-informed diatribe,  
>> you would
>> have gotten the answer.
>>
>>>  And it must be possible to replace any XML prolog with
>>> the curl applet expression.  And block the emission of a DOCTYPE.
>>> Django takes a little effort and setting aside response shortcuts  
>>> (at
>>> least for now.)  Some web frameworks look to be non-starters.  Which
>>> is not so good for big corp's in Japan and Korea and perhaps soon in
>>> Chine and other parts of the Far East and Pacific Rim if not even  
>>> the
>>> sub-continent.  Not to mention Africa.
>>
>> What do you mean by this?
>>
>>
>>
>>> But requiring every template to run through an XML-parser?  Hmm.  
>>> We do
>>> seem tightly coupled to our XML ... a gift from Maven?  I wouldn't
>>> know.
>>
>> Lift's templating system is based on XHTML.  It's not a "gift from  
>> maven",
>> it's a design choice that XHTML (and XML compatible HTML 5) means  
>> that HTML
>> developers need not be sloppy.  The simple fact that JavaScript can  
>> be
>> included in pages is a pretty clear indication that one can include  
>> text
>> within a given page.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Drupal is a challenge, but do-able.  Seaside for Smalltalk was a
>>> challenge, but is now do-able.  Wicket is almost elegant in offering
>>> alternatives to its HTML folder.
>>
>>> But I am sure that with Scala Traits that there is a simple solution
>>> without awkward configuration and without leaving one-touch Maven
>>> installs behind.  Somewhere in the architectonic of arche-types
>>> someone knows how to prevent autochthonous XML.
>>
>> You seem to be very confused about technology and how the different  
>> pieces
>> of Lift work together.  Lift does not require Maven.  Lift supports  
>> emitting
>> any old kind of HTTP response type.
>>
>>
>>
>

[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Aule]

I am looking through a trace right now - and there is that XmlParser
in spite of the dispatch change.

So I have my doubts that anyone has taken the time to show that HTML
itself can be turned off as the default MIME type for output ( Lift is
not alone among web frameworks in that regard - especially for 404 and
500 pages)

scala.io.Source.reportError(Source.scala:344)
scala.xml.parsing.MarkupParser$class.reportSyntaxError
(MarkupParser.scala:1113)
net.liftweb.util.PCDataXmlParser.reportSyntaxError
(PCDataMarkupParser.scala:91)
scala.xml.parsing.MarkupParser$class.reportSyntaxError
(MarkupParser.scala:1117)
net.liftweb.util.PCDataXmlParser.reportSyntaxError
(PCDataMarkupParser.scala:91)
scala.xml.parsing.MarkupParser$class.document(MarkupParser.scala:186)
net.liftweb.util.PCDataXmlParser.document(PCDataMarkupParser.scala:
91)
net.liftweb.util.PCDataXmlParser$.apply(PCDataMarkupParser.scala:102)
net.liftweb.http.TemplateFinder$$anonfun$findAnyTemplate$1$$anonfun
$apply$64.apply(LiftSession.scala:1096)
net.liftweb.http.TemplateFinder$$anonfun$findAnyTemplate$1$$anonfun
$apply$64.apply(LiftSession.scala:1096)
net.liftweb.util.Full.flatMap(Box.scala:332)
net.liftweb.http.TemplateFinder$$anonfun$findAnyTemplate$1.apply
(LiftSession.scala:1096)

On Oct 13, 5:33 pm, David Pollak 
wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Aule  wrote:
>
> > Over at
> >http://eclectic-pencil.blogspot.com/2009/10/curlgen-using-scala-lift-...
> > I could not help poking a little fun.
>
> > Perhaps someone could set me right on just what it would take to
> > configure a site to output non-HTML web content.
>
> 1 lines of code:
>
> case Req(path, _, GetRequest) =>
> Full(InMemoryResponse(calculateBytesForCurlResponse(path),
> List("Content-Type" -> "text/curl"), Nil, 200))
>
>
>
> > The markup that I use is almost 10 years old and comes out of the MIT
> > tradition: Curl from developers.curl.com (no, not cURL from haxx.se )
>
> > Curl is elegant.  Curl is one language in place of many. And it is a
> > client-side only framework.  It need not be seen as in competition
> > with Scala.
>
> > Where is it easy to output Curl instead of XHTML or HTML?  Well, PHP,
> > for one. Or plain old CGI.
> > All that is needed is access to the HTTP header.  Nothing in HTTP
> > dictates XML.
>
> Yep.  That's right and nothing in Lift dictates XHTML.  If you had asked a
> simple question rather than making a long, ill-informed diatribe, you would
> have gotten the answer.
>
> >  And it must be possible to replace any XML prolog with
> > the curl applet expression.  And block the emission of a DOCTYPE.
> > Django takes a little effort and setting aside response shortcuts (at
> > least for now.)  Some web frameworks look to be non-starters.  Which
> > is not so good for big corp's in Japan and Korea and perhaps soon in
> > Chine and other parts of the Far East and Pacific Rim if not even the
> > sub-continent.  Not to mention Africa.
>
> What do you mean by this?
>
>
>
> > But requiring every template to run through an XML-parser?  Hmm. We do
> > seem tightly coupled to our XML ... a gift from Maven?  I wouldn't
> > know.
>
> Lift's templating system is based on XHTML.  It's not a "gift from maven",
> it's a design choice that XHTML (and XML compatible HTML 5) means that HTML
> developers need not be sloppy.  The simple fact that JavaScript can be
> included in pages is a pretty clear indication that one can include text
> within a given page.
>
>
>
> > Drupal is a challenge, but do-able.  Seaside for Smalltalk was a
> > challenge, but is now do-able.  Wicket is almost elegant in offering
> > alternatives to its HTML folder.
>
> > But I am sure that with Scala Traits that there is a simple solution
> > without awkward configuration and without leaving one-touch Maven
> > installs behind.  Somewhere in the architectonic of arche-types
> > someone knows how to prevent autochthonous XML.
>
> You seem to be very confused about technology and how the different pieces
> of Lift work together.  Lift does not require Maven.  Lift supports emitting
> any old kind of HTTP response type.
>
>
>
> > Cheers.
> > Robert
> > aule-browser.com
> > logiquewerks.com
> > make-config.net
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> Surf the harmonics

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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Aule]

I am not confused.  Not about this technology and not about a few
others.  Just say where that inobvious one line would go.  Precisely.
Because nowhere on the web is there a simple example of a corrected
Lift Boot.scala file.

And then perhaps consider whether that arcane change is comparable to
what is required in any comparable web framework to flip the default
MIME type for HTTP responses.  Prior to my intervention that was about
what it took for Seaside for Smalltalk (Smalltalk, the grandparent of
all MVC frameworks ... but it has variants, and I am confused about
none of them.)

Someone at Lift may over-estimate both XML and XHTML.  Could be from
an excess of Maven.  I wouldn't know ...

But you do seem unaware that not all HTTP reponse payloads start with
an XML prolog (  ) or an XML !DOCTYPE.

Perhaps it is you who has lost perspective on the evolution of MVC-
variants over the past 20+ years ...

R

On Oct 13, 5:33 pm, David Pollak 
wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Aule  wrote:
>
> > Over at
> >http://eclectic-pencil.blogspot.com/2009/10/curlgen-using-scala-lift-...
> > I could not help poking a little fun.
>
> > Perhaps someone could set me right on just what it would take to
> > configure a site to output non-HTML web content.
>
> 1 lines of code:
>
> case Req(path, _, GetRequest) =>
> Full(InMemoryResponse(calculateBytesForCurlResponse(path),
> List("Content-Type" -> "text/curl"), Nil, 200))
>
>
>
> > The markup that I use is almost 10 years old and comes out of the MIT
> > tradition: Curl from developers.curl.com (no, not cURL from haxx.se )
>
> > Curl is elegant.  Curl is one language in place of many. And it is a
> > client-side only framework.  It need not be seen as in competition
> > with Scala.
>
> > Where is it easy to output Curl instead of XHTML or HTML?  Well, PHP,
> > for one. Or plain old CGI.
> > All that is needed is access to the HTTP header.  Nothing in HTTP
> > dictates XML.
>
> Yep.  That's right and nothing in Lift dictates XHTML.  If you had asked a
> simple question rather than making a long, ill-informed diatribe, you would
> have gotten the answer.
>
> >  And it must be possible to replace any XML prolog with
> > the curl applet expression.  And block the emission of a DOCTYPE.
> > Django takes a little effort and setting aside response shortcuts (at
> > least for now.)  Some web frameworks look to be non-starters.  Which
> > is not so good for big corp's in Japan and Korea and perhaps soon in
> > Chine and other parts of the Far East and Pacific Rim if not even the
> > sub-continent.  Not to mention Africa.
>
> What do you mean by this?
>
>
>
> > But requiring every template to run through an XML-parser?  Hmm. We do
> > seem tightly coupled to our XML ... a gift from Maven?  I wouldn't
> > know.
>
> Lift's templating system is based on XHTML.  It's not a "gift from maven",
> it's a design choice that XHTML (and XML compatible HTML 5) means that HTML
> developers need not be sloppy.  The simple fact that JavaScript can be
> included in pages is a pretty clear indication that one can include text
> within a given page.
>
>
>
> > Drupal is a challenge, but do-able.  Seaside for Smalltalk was a
> > challenge, but is now do-able.  Wicket is almost elegant in offering
> > alternatives to its HTML folder.
>
> > But I am sure that with Scala Traits that there is a simple solution
> > without awkward configuration and without leaving one-touch Maven
> > installs behind.  Somewhere in the architectonic of arche-types
> > someone knows how to prevent autochthonous XML.
>
> You seem to be very confused about technology and how the different pieces
> of Lift work together.  Lift does not require Maven.  Lift supports emitting
> any old kind of HTTP response type.
>
>
>
> > Cheers.
> > Robert
> > aule-browser.com
> > logiquewerks.com
> > make-config.net
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> Surf the harmonics

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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[David Pollak]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Aule  wrote:

>
> Over at
> http://eclectic-pencil.blogspot.com/2009/10/curlgen-using-scala-lift-not-or-xml.html
> I could not help poking a little fun.
>
> Perhaps someone could set me right on just what it would take to
> configure a site to output non-HTML web content.
>

1 lines of code:

case Req(path, _, GetRequest) =>
Full(InMemoryResponse(calculateBytesForCurlResponse(path),
List("Content-Type" -> "text/curl"), Nil, 200))


>
> The markup that I use is almost 10 years old and comes out of the MIT
> tradition: Curl from developers.curl.com (no, not cURL from haxx.se )
>
> Curl is elegant.  Curl is one language in place of many. And it is a
> client-side only framework.  It need not be seen as in competition
> with Scala.
>
> Where is it easy to output Curl instead of XHTML or HTML?  Well, PHP,
> for one. Or plain old CGI.
> All that is needed is access to the HTTP header.  Nothing in HTTP
> dictates XML.


Yep.  That's right and nothing in Lift dictates XHTML.  If you had asked a
simple question rather than making a long, ill-informed diatribe, you would
have gotten the answer.


>  And it must be possible to replace any XML prolog with
> the curl applet expression.  And block the emission of a DOCTYPE.
> Django takes a little effort and setting aside response shortcuts (at
> least for now.)  Some web frameworks look to be non-starters.  Which
> is not so good for big corp's in Japan and Korea and perhaps soon in
> Chine and other parts of the Far East and Pacific Rim if not even the
> sub-continent.  Not to mention Africa.
>

What do you mean by this?


>
> But requiring every template to run through an XML-parser?  Hmm. We do
> seem tightly coupled to our XML ... a gift from Maven?  I wouldn't
> know.
>

Lift's templating system is based on XHTML.  It's not a "gift from maven",
it's a design choice that XHTML (and XML compatible HTML 5) means that HTML
developers need not be sloppy.  The simple fact that JavaScript can be
included in pages is a pretty clear indication that one can include text
within a given page.


>
> Drupal is a challenge, but do-able.  Seaside for Smalltalk was a
> challenge, but is now do-able.  Wicket is almost elegant in offering
> alternatives to its HTML folder.
>
> But I am sure that with Scala Traits that there is a simple solution
> without awkward configuration and without leaving one-touch Maven
> installs behind.  Somewhere in the architectonic of arche-types
> someone knows how to prevent autochthonous XML.
>

You seem to be very confused about technology and how the different pieces
of Lift work together.  Lift does not require Maven.  Lift supports emitting
any old kind of HTTP response type.


>
> Cheers.
> Robert
> aule-browser.com
> logiquewerks.com
> make-config.net
>
> >
>


-- 
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
Surf the harmonics

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[Lift] Re: Don't shoot the non-XML messenger ...

[Ross Mellgren]

(I am not a Lift expert)

Lift's template system is XML-oriented, but you can use  
LiftRules.dispatch to give back a response of any type. Obviously, you  
won't get the template system, but you will get all of the other Lift  
stuff (request processing, site map, mapper, etc). Lift is (at least  
IMO) actually a fairly lightweight set of composable parts with a  
standard set of patterns that you'd use for normal web development  
(e.g. XHTML).

If you really really wanted to use the templating stuff then you can  
implement some dispatch function, take the resultant XML from  
LiftSession.runTemplate and run it through a chipper to take out the  
markup or convert it to some format other than XML.

-Ross

On Oct 13, 2009, at 5:58 PM, Aule wrote:

>
> Over at 
> http://eclectic-pencil.blogspot.com/2009/10/curlgen-using-scala-lift-not-or-xml.html
> I could not help poking a little fun.
>
> Perhaps someone could set me right on just what it would take to
> configure a site to output non-HTML web content.
>
> The markup that I use is almost 10 years old and comes out of the MIT
> tradition: Curl from developers.curl.com (no, not cURL from haxx.se )
>
> Curl is elegant.  Curl is one language in place of many. And it is a
> client-side only framework.  It need not be seen as in competition
> with Scala.
>
> Where is it easy to output Curl instead of XHTML or HTML?  Well, PHP,
> for one. Or plain old CGI.
> All that is needed is access to the HTTP header.  Nothing in HTTP
> dictates XML.  And it must be possible to replace any XML prolog with
> the curl applet expression.  And block the emission of a DOCTYPE.
> Django takes a little effort and setting aside response shortcuts (at
> least for now.)  Some web frameworks look to be non-starters.  Which
> is not so good for big corp's in Japan and Korea and perhaps soon in
> Chine and other parts of the Far East and Pacific Rim if not even the
> sub-continent.  Not to mention Africa.
>
> But requiring every template to run through an XML-parser?  Hmm. We do
> seem tightly coupled to our XML ... a gift from Maven?  I wouldn't
> know.
>
> Drupal is a challenge, but do-able.  Seaside for Smalltalk was a
> challenge, but is now do-able.  Wicket is almost elegant in offering
> alternatives to its HTML folder.
>
> But I am sure that with Scala Traits that there is a simple solution
> without awkward configuration and without leaving one-touch Maven
> installs behind.  Somewhere in the architectonic of arche-types
> someone knows how to prevent autochthonous XML.
>
> Cheers.
> Robert
> aule-browser.com
> logiquewerks.com
> make-config.net
>
> >


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