Re: [Lightning-dev] Making unannounced channels harder to probe

2021-04-23 Thread Rusty Russell
Joost Jager writes: >> >> But Joost pointed out that you need to know the node_id of the next node >> though: this isn't quite true, since if the node_id is wrong the spec >> says you should send an `update_fail_malformed_htlc` with failure code >> invalid_onion_hmac, which node N turns into its

Re: [Lightning-dev] [RFC] Simplified (but less optimal) HTLC Negotiation

2021-04-23 Thread Rusty Russell
Matt Corallo writes: > Somehow I missed this thread, but I did note in a previous meeting - these > issues are great fodder for fuzzing. We’ve had a fuzzer which aggressively > tests for precisely these types of message-non-delivery-and-resending > production desync bugs for several years.

Re: [Lightning-dev] Making unannounced channels harder to probe

2021-04-23 Thread Joost Jager
> > But Joost pointed out that you need to know the node_id of the next node > though: this isn't quite true, since if the node_id is wrong the spec > says you should send an `update_fail_malformed_htlc` with failure code > invalid_onion_hmac, which node N turns into its own failure message. >

Re: [Lightning-dev] [RFC] Simplified (but less optimal) HTLC Negotiation

2021-04-23 Thread Matt Corallo
> On Apr 20, 2021, at 17:19, Rusty Russell wrote: > > After consideration, I prefer alternation. It fits better with the > existing implementations, and it is more optimal than reflection for > optimized implementations. > > In particular, you have a rule that says you can send updates and >

[Lightning-dev] Making unannounced channels harder to probe

2021-04-23 Thread Rusty Russell
Hi all, You can currently probe for a channel id attached to node N by sending an HTLC, and seeing whether the error reply comes from the N or the next hop. The real answer is to get back to blinded paths, BTW. But Joost pointed out that you need to know the node_id of the next node

Re: [Lightning-dev] Increase channel-jamming capital requirements by not counting dust HTLCs

2021-04-23 Thread Matt Corallo
The update_fee message does not, as far as I recall, change the dust limit for outputs in a channel (though I’ve suggested making such a change). > On Apr 23, 2021, at 12:24, Bastien TEINTURIER wrote: > >  > Hi Eugene, > > The reason dust HTLCs count for the 483 HTLC limit is because of

Re: [Lightning-dev] Increase channel-jamming capital requirements by not counting dust HTLCs

2021-04-23 Thread Eugene Siegel
Thanks for replying. I was under the impression that long-term update_fee was going to be removed since second-level HTLC txn's can bring their own fees? On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 12:24 PM Bastien TEINTURIER wrote: > Hi Eugene, > > The reason dust HTLCs count for the 483 HTLC limit is because of

Re: [Lightning-dev] Increase channel-jamming capital requirements by not counting dust HTLCs

2021-04-23 Thread Bastien TEINTURIER
Hi Eugene, The reason dust HTLCs count for the 483 HTLC limit is because of `update_fee`. If you don't count them and exceed the 483 HTLC limit, you can't lower the fee anymore because some HTLCs that were previously dust won't be dust anymore and you may end up with more than 483 HTLC outputs in

Re: [Lightning-dev] L2s Onchain Support IRC Workshop

2021-04-23 Thread Bastien TEINTURIER
Great idea, I'll join as well. Thanks for setting this in motion. Le ven. 23 avr. 2021 à 17:39, Antoine Riard a écrit : > Hi Jeremy, > > Yes dates are floating for now. After Bitcoin 2021, sounds a good idea. > > Awesome, I'll be really interested to review again an improved version of >

[Lightning-dev] Increase channel-jamming capital requirements by not counting dust HTLCs

2021-04-23 Thread Eugene Siegel
I propose a simple mitigation to increase the capital requirement of channel-jamming attacks. This would prevent an unsophisticated attacker with low capital from jamming a target channel. It seems to me that this is a *free* mitigation without any downsides (besides code-writing), so I'd like to

Re: [Lightning-dev] L2s Onchain Support IRC Workshop

2021-04-23 Thread Antoine Riard
Hi Jeremy, Yes dates are floating for now. After Bitcoin 2021, sounds a good idea. Awesome, I'll be really interested to review again an improved version of sponsorship. And I'll try to sketch out the sighash_no-input fee-bumping idea which was floating around last year during pinnings

Re: [Lightning-dev] L2s Onchain Support IRC Workshop

2021-04-23 Thread Jeremy
I'd be excited to join. Recommend bumping the date to mid June, if that's ok, as many Americans will be at Bitcoin 2021. I was thinking about reviving the sponsors proposal with a 100 block lock on spending a sponsoring tx which would hopefully make less controversial, this would be a great

[Lightning-dev] L2s Onchain Support IRC Workshop

2021-04-23 Thread Antoine Riard
Hi, During the lastest years, tx-relay and mempool acceptances rules of the base layer have been sources of major security and operational concerns for Lightning and other Bitcoin second-layers [0]. I think those areas require significant improvements to ease design and deployment of higher