Re: [Lightning-dev] Do we really want users to solve an NP-hard problem when they wish to find a cheap way of paying each other on the Lightning Network?

2021-09-01 Thread Matt Corallo
> On Sep 1, 2021, at 00:07, ZmnSCPxj wrote: > > Good morning Matt and all, > >> Please be careful accepting the faulty premise that the proposed algorithm >> is “optimal”. It is optimal under a specific heuristic used to approximate >> what the user wants. In reality, there are a ton of

Re: [Lightning-dev] Do we really want users to solve an NP-hard problem when they wish to find a cheap way of paying each other on the Lightning Network?

2021-09-01 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Matt and all, > Please be careful accepting the faulty premise that the proposed algorithm is > “optimal”. It is optimal under a specific heuristic used to approximate what > the user wants. In reality, there are a ton of different things to balance, > from CLTV to feed to

Re: [Lightning-dev] Do we really want users to solve an NP-hard problem when they wish to find a cheap way of paying each other on the Lightning Network?

2021-08-31 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Stefan, > > For myself, I think a variant of Pickhardt-Richter payments can be created > > which adapts to the reality of the current network where `base_fee > 0` is > > common, but is biased against `base_fee > 0`, can be a bridge from the > > current network with `base_fee > 0`

Re: [Lightning-dev] Do we really want users to solve an NP-hard problem when they wish to find a cheap way of paying each other on the Lightning Network?

2021-08-31 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Orfeas, > Such an approach is much more suitable to debian, since they have > full control and a complete view over their "network" of packages, as opposed > to LN, which is decentralized, nodes come and go at will and they can be > private (even from developers!).

Re: [Lightning-dev] Do we really want users to solve an NP-hard problem when they wish to find a cheap way of paying each other on the Lightning Network?

2021-08-31 Thread Orfeas Stefanos Thyfronitis Litos
Hi list, On 8/31/21 5:01 AM, Anthony Towns wrote: >> "Do we really want users to solve an NP-hard problem when >> they wish to find a cheap way of paying each other on the Lightning >> Network?"  > FWIW, my answer to this is "sure, if that's the way it turns out". > > Another program which

Re: [Lightning-dev] Do we really want users to solve an NP-hard problem when they wish to find a cheap way of paying each other on the Lightning Network?

2021-08-31 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning aj and Rene, > On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 04:33:23PM +0200, René Pickhardt via Lightning-dev > wrote: > > > As we thought it was obvious that the function is not linear we only > > explained > > in the paper how the jump from f(0)=0 to f(1) = ppm+base_fee breaks > > convexity. > >

Re: [Lightning-dev] Do we really want users to solve an NP-hard problem when they wish to find a cheap way of paying each other on the Lightning Network?

2021-08-30 Thread Anthony Towns
On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 04:33:23PM +0200, René Pickhardt via Lightning-dev wrote: > As we thought it was obvious that the function is not linear we only explained > in the paper how the jump from f(0)=0 to f(1) = ppm+base_fee breaks convexity. (This would make more sense to me as "f(0)=0 but

[Lightning-dev] Do we really want users to solve an NP-hard problem when they wish to find a cheap way of paying each other on the Lightning Network?

2021-08-26 Thread René Pickhardt via Lightning-dev
Dear fellow lightning developers, with a mixture of shock and disbelief I have been following the (semi) public discussions for the last 6 weeks and the reaction of some companies / people that reached out to me. I have to say I am really surprised by the amount of hesitation that - despite