Re: [Lightning-dev] An Idea to Improve Connectivity of the Graph

2018-04-11 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning, > > That is mostly due to the selection of 1 bit sequence diffs, the > > branching gives us a huge increase in the number of invalidations. The > > paper has the example of branching factor of 46, and a tree depth of 11, > > which results in 1.48e11 updates. >From your descripti

Re: [Lightning-dev] An Idea to Improve Connectivity of the Graph

2018-04-11 Thread Christian Decker
ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev writes: > Good morning Alejandro, > > I was about to ask Christian this myself. > > There is another technique: > > Use a sequence of `nSequence`d transactions off-chain. For example, > to get an 2-bit counter, you would have: > > funding -> kickoff -> bit1 -> bit0 > >

Re: [Lightning-dev] An Idea to Improve Connectivity of the Graph

2018-04-11 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Alejandro, I was about to ask Christian this myself. There is another technique: Use a sequence of `nSequence`d transactions off-chain. For example, to get an 2-bit counter, you would have: funding -> kickoff -> bit1 -> bit0 Only funding is onchain. kickoff, bit1, and bit0 tran

Re: [Lightning-dev] An Idea to Improve Connectivity of the Graph

2018-04-11 Thread Alejandro Ranchal Pedrosa
Hi Christian, That's not as bad a tradeoff as people usually interpret, the DMC construction has parameters that allow tweaking the number of invalidations, and with parameters similar to LN we can have 1.4 billion updates. Which is years of operation without need to re-anchor. In addition penal

Re: [Lightning-dev] An Idea to Improve Connectivity of the Graph

2018-04-06 Thread Christian Decker
ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev writes: > In a retaliation construction, if a party misbehaves, the other party gets > the entire amount they are working on together, as disincentive for any party > to cheat. > > That works for the two-party case A and B. If A cheats, B gets money. > > How do you ex

Re: [Lightning-dev] An Idea to Improve Connectivity of the Graph

2018-04-05 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Alejandro, There is no assumption involved, merely a large number of questions. In a retaliation construction, if a party misbehaves, the other party gets the entire amount they are working on together, as disincentive for any party to cheat. That works for the two-party case A an

Re: [Lightning-dev] An Idea to Improve Connectivity of the Graph

2018-04-02 Thread Alejandro Ranchal Pedrosa
Hello all, Christian Decker pointed the following out (source:https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2018-February/000991.html): >I'd also like to point out that the way we do state invalidations in >Lightning is not really suited for multi-party negotiations beyond 2 >parties.

Re: [Lightning-dev] An Idea to Improve Connectivity of the Graph

2018-02-05 Thread Christian Decker
I'd also like to point out that the way we do state invalidations in Lightning is not really suited for multi-party negotiations beyond 2 parties. The number of potential reactions to a party cheating grows exponentially in the number of parties in the contract, which is the reason the Channel Fact

Re: [Lightning-dev] An Idea to Improve Connectivity of the Graph

2018-02-04 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Abhishek Sharma, While the goal of the idea is good, can you provide more details on the Bitcoin transactions? Presumably the on-chain anchor is a 3-of-3 multisig UTXO, what is the transaction that spends that? What do Lightning commitment transactions spend? Can you draw a grap