Re: [Lightning-dev] Reduce the amount of collateral locked by scripts for transferring funds in lightning network

2020-01-27 Thread Subhra Mazumdar
Good Morning. Yes it is stated that relationship anonymity gets violated. This probably implies that all the intermediate hops know the entire route, and thus who the ultimate sender and receiver are, thus utterly bad for privacy. Hopefully my reading is wrong, or this is fixable, but if neither, i

[Lightning-dev] DRAFT: interactive tx construction protocol

2020-01-27 Thread lisa neigut
Some of the feedback I received from the check-in for the dual-funding proposal this past Monday was along the lines that we look at simplifying for breaking it into smaller, more manageable chunks. The biggest piece of the dual-funding protocol update is definitely the move from a single peer con

Re: [Lightning-dev] Not revealing the channel capacity during opening of channel in lightning network

2020-01-27 Thread Matt Corallo
Right, but there are approaches that are not as susceptible - an obvious, albeit somewhat naive, approach would be to define a fixed and proportional max fee, and pick a random (with some privacy properties eg biasing towards old or good-reputation nodes, routing across nodes hosted on different IS

Re: [Lightning-dev] Not revealing the channel capacity during opening of channel in lightning network

2020-01-27 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Matt, Thread-hijack... > route-hijacks (aka someone providing routing for a lower fee > and users happily taking it) I observe that this is something of a catch-22. If users *notice* lower fees and go to lower-fee channels, then route-hijacking is possible and surveillors can pay

Re: [Lightning-dev] Not revealing the channel capacity during opening of channel in lightning network

2020-01-27 Thread Matt Corallo
Note the distinction - there is almost nothing done today to prevent spam and route-hijacks (aka someone providing routing for a lower fee and users happily taking it) in the routing DB today. The issue of anti-DoS is somewhat different - we do have reasonable protection from someone OOM'ing every

Re: [Lightning-dev] Not revealing the channel capacity during opening of channel in lightning network

2020-01-27 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Subhra, > So introducing proof of knowledge of fund locked instead of revealing the > amount of fund locked by counterparties will introduce added complexity while > routing but how effective is this going to be against handling attacks like > hijacking of routes and channel exhaus

Re: [Lightning-dev] Not revealing the channel capacity during opening of channel in lightning network

2020-01-27 Thread Matt Corallo
Why require a funding locked? Just require proof-of-UTXO - its only for anti-DoS, again there is no reason to require a standard lightning channel on-chain for this. In general proving 2-of-2 multisig UTXO ownership doesn't do much to prevent route hijacking to begin with, so it shouldn't be much

Re: [Lightning-dev] Reduce the amount of collateral locked by scripts for transferring funds in lightning network

2020-01-27 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Subhra, The paper does not describe how Lightning works today, so I was confused. It seems to claim to have a constant *lock time*, but still a decrementing *amount*, across the entire payment attempt. In any case: any offchain updateable cryptocurrency system can host any contract

Re: [Lightning-dev] Not revealing the channel capacity during opening of channel in lightning network

2020-01-27 Thread Subhra Mazumdar
So introducing proof of knowledge of fund locked instead of revealing the amount of fund locked by counterparties will introduce added complexity while routing but how effective is this going to be against handling attacks like hijacking of routes and channel exhaustion ? On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 20:

Re: [Lightning-dev] Not revealing the channel capacity during opening of channel in lightning network

2020-01-27 Thread Matt Corallo
Note that there's no real reason lightning nodes *have* to have confidence in that - if a node routes your payment to the next hop, how they do it doesn't really matter. Allowing things like non-lightning "channels" (eg just a contractual agreement to settle up later between two mutually-trusting p

Re: [Lightning-dev] Not revealing the channel capacity during opening of channel in lightning network

2020-01-27 Thread Subhra Mazumdar
Hey thanks for clearing the confusion. Well then may be we can look out for such a provision in off chain payment systems for Monero. On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 13:20 Ugam Kamat wrote: > Hey Subhra – In order to have faith that the channel announced by the > nodes is actually locked on the Bitcoin ma