Good morning Joost,
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 12:00 PM ZmnSCPxj wrote:
>
> > Good morning Joost,
> >
> > > A potential downside of a dedicated probe message is that it could be
> > > used for free messaging on lightning by including additional data in the
> > > payload for the recipient. Free
On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 12:00 PM ZmnSCPxj wrote:
> Good morning Joost,
>
> > A potential downside of a dedicated probe message is that it could be
> used for free messaging on lightning by including additional data in the
> payload for the recipient. Free messaging is already possible today via
Good morning Joost,
> A potential downside of a dedicated probe message is that it could be used
> for free messaging on lightning by including additional data in the payload
> for the recipient. Free messaging is already possible today via htlcs, but a
> probe message would lower the cost to
A potential downside of a dedicated probe message is that it could be used
for free messaging on lightning by including additional data in the payload
for the recipient. Free messaging is already possible today via htlcs, but
a probe message would lower the cost to do so because the sender doesn't
Good morning Joost,
> There could be some corners where the incentives may not work out 100%, but I
> doubt that any routing node would bother exploiting this. Especially because
> there could always be that reputation scheme at the sender side which may
> cost the routing node a lot more in
There could be some corners where the incentives may not work out 100%, but
I doubt that any routing node would bother exploiting this. Especially
because there could always be that reputation scheme at the sender side
which may cost the routing node a lot more in lost routing fees than the
Good morning Owen,
> C now notes that B is lying, but is faced with the dilemma:
>
> "I could either say 'no' because I can plainly see that B is lying, or
> I could say 'yes' and get some free sats from the failed payment (or
> via the hope of a successful payment from a capacity increase in the
On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 02:29:15PM +, ZmnSCPxj wrote:
> I propose substantially the same thing here:
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2021-September/003256.html
>
> In that proposal, I wrote:
>
> > Another thought is: Does the forwarding node have an incentive to
> >
>
> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 09:48:27AM +0200, Joost Jager wrote:
> >
> > > So how would things work out with a combination of both of the
> > > proposals described in this mail? First we make probing free (free as
> > > in no liquidity locked up) and then we'll require senders to pay for
> > >
Good morning Owen,
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 09:48:27AM +0200, Joost Jager wrote:
>
> > So how would things work out with a combination of both of the
> > proposals described in this mail? First we make probing free (free as
> > in no liquidity locked up) and then we'll require senders to pay for
On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 4:21 PM Owen Gunden wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 09:48:27AM +0200, Joost Jager wrote:
> > So how would things work out with a combination of both of the
> > proposals described in this mail? First we make probing free (free as
> > in no liquidity locked up) and then
On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 09:48:27AM +0200, Joost Jager wrote:
> So how would things work out with a combination of both of the
> proposals described in this mail? First we make probing free (free as
> in no liquidity locked up) and then we'll require senders to pay for
> failed payment attempts
A practice that is widely applied by lightning wallets is to probe routes
with an unknown payment hash before making the actual payment. Probing
yields an accurate routing fee that can be shown to the user before
execution of the payment.
The downside of this style of probing is that for a short
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