Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
All, I spoke to Suse and they will be posting something to the forum later today. However, I will say at this point that the LPAR based pricing post is incorrect. Straight from Suse's mouth, the pricing will remain CPU based for the mainframe. So, if you have 4 LPARS all running off the same CPU, you pay for Suse one time. With pSeries and iSeries, you pay for a box with x number of CPUs. In my past post the example was up to 8. They don't care how many instances you run. The confusion might be coming from their support pricing structure. That is based on the number of instances. 1 - 5, 6- 10,etc. I hope this clears most of the fog. Suse should be posting to the list sometime today also. - Kevin (Embedded image moved to file: pic03929.jpg) PLEASE NOTE NEW CONTACT INFORMATION! Kevin Gates DSG Linux Solutions Specialist __ office 480-471-8276 fax 480-452-1470 cell 480-734-1034 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dsgroup.com Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mine.netcc: Sent by: Linux onSubject: Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements 390 Port [EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU 12/17/2003 10:26 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port On Wed, 2003-12-17 at 18:05, Alan Cox wrote: Wouldn't this depend on the price per instance and the number of instances, as well as the availability of both options ? Well, I believe that there are few (note: I'm *not* saying no) good reasons to run Linux/390 in any context other than VM. And, so, no, because if you're using Linux/390 in a cost-effective manner you're almost certainly in a situation where you're using multiple instances per CPU. I suppose in theory the per-instance price could be low enough that this wasn't a problem, but then, how do you ensure license compliance? One of the great things about VM is the ease with which you can set up and then destroy instances. How do you enforce a per-instance license in that scenario, anyway? Adam attachment: pic03929.jpg
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
On Wed, 2003-12-17 at 18:05, Alan Cox wrote: Wouldn't this depend on the price per instance and the number of instances, as well as the availability of both options ? Well, I believe that there are few (note: I'm *not* saying no) good reasons to run Linux/390 in any context other than VM. And, so, no, because if you're using Linux/390 in a cost-effective manner you're almost certainly in a situation where you're using multiple instances per CPU. I suppose in theory the per-instance price could be low enough that this wasn't a problem, but then, how do you ensure license compliance? One of the great things about VM is the ease with which you can set up and then destroy instances. How do you enforce a per-instance license in that scenario, anyway? Adam
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
I am a Suse Premier Channel Partner and resell their software everyday. The term server means one physical box. I have copied the following from the Suse pricebook for 2004 to help clarify: Enterprise Server 8 for IBM iSeries, incl. 1 year Maintenance Program for 1 server (up to 8 CPUs each) and Installationkit , International (German,English) So you can see that when you purchase SLES8 you can have as many instances as you can run on an up to 8 way box with no additional charge. Hope this helps, - Kevin (Embedded image moved to file: pic03434.jpg) PLEASE NOTE NEW CONTACT INFORMATION! Kevin Gates DSG Linux Solutions Specialist __ office 480-471-8276 fax 480-452-1470 cell 480-734-1034 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dsgroup.com Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] et cc: Sent by: Linux onSubject: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements 390 Port [EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU 12/16/2003 01:52 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port This interesting little tidbit showed up today. It says that the per-CPU licensing for SLES8 on iSeries and pSeries is being changed to per-install. (The announcement also uses the term per-server install.) Perhaps someone from IBM could comment on this. Does this mean that if someone uses the hypervisor to create (for example) 10 Linux LPARs, they would be charged for 10 licenses, when they might have been charged much less on a per-CPU basis? It's rather vague, and I don't want to spread misinformation if I can avoid it. Thanks, Mark Post -Original Message- From: IBM iSource [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 8:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements Software _ 203342 Prices restructured: SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 8 for iSeries and pSeries (5.1KB) http://www.ibm.com/isource/cgi-bin/goto?it=usa_annredon=203-342 attachment: pic03434.jpg
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 16:43, Kevin Gates wrote: Enterprise Server 8 for IBM iSeries, incl. 1 year Maintenance Program for 1 server (up to 8 CPUs each) and Installationkit , International (German,English) So you can see that when you purchase SLES8 you can have as many instances as you can run on an up to 8 way box with no additional charge. Well, on an iSeries; is it the same for zSeries, though? Adam
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
I just happened to be on the phone with Suse when this came through. The pricebook for 2004 does not yet contain pricing for s/390 or zSeries. I asked if any change was anticipated and the answer was no, that the person was 98% sure it was remaining the same as it is today. So, that is what Suse has to say. My take is that Suse cannot possibly change the pricing structure for s/390 or zSeries. It would make no sense to do so as the increased cost through paying for each instance of Linux would make zLinux highly cost prohibitive in most cases. Like I told the Suse rep, if the model were to change they would see zLinux sales evaporate. Hope this helps, - Kevin (Embedded image moved to file: pic30452.jpg) PLEASE NOTE NEW CONTACT INFORMATION! Kevin Gates DSG Linux Solutions Specialist __ office 480-471-8276 fax 480-452-1470 cell 480-734-1034 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dsgroup.com Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mine.netcc: Sent by: Linux onSubject: Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements 390 Port [EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU 12/16/2003 03:51 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 16:43, Kevin Gates wrote: Enterprise Server 8 for IBM iSeries, incl. 1 year Maintenance Program for 1 server (up to 8 CPUs each) and Installationkit , International (German,English) So you can see that when you purchase SLES8 you can have as many instances as you can run on an up to 8 way box with no additional charge. Well, on an iSeries; is it the same for zSeries, though? Adam attachment: pic30452.jpg
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
That is good news. It was what I _hoped_ the IBM announcement meant. Thanks for the clarification. Mark Post -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin Gates Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 5:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements I am a Suse Premier Channel Partner and resell their software everyday. The term server means one physical box. I have copied the following from the Suse pricebook for 2004 to help clarify: Enterprise Server 8 for IBM iSeries, incl. 1 year Maintenance Program for 1 server (up to 8 CPUs each) and Installationkit , International (German,English) So you can see that when you purchase SLES8 you can have as many instances as you can run on an up to 8 way box with no additional charge. Hope this helps, - Kevin (Embedded image moved to file: pic03434.jpg) PLEASE NOTE NEW CONTACT INFORMATION! Kevin Gates DSG Linux Solutions Specialist __ office 480-471-8276 fax 480-452-1470 cell 480-734-1034 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dsgroup.com Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] et cc: Sent by: Linux onSubject: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements 390 Port [EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU 12/16/2003 01:52 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port This interesting little tidbit showed up today. It says that the per-CPU licensing for SLES8 on iSeries and pSeries is being changed to per-install. (The announcement also uses the term per-server install.) Perhaps someone from IBM could comment on this. Does this mean that if someone uses the hypervisor to create (for example) 10 Linux LPARs, they would be charged for 10 licenses, when they might have been charged much less on a per-CPU basis? It's rather vague, and I don't want to spread misinformation if I can avoid it. Thanks, Mark Post -Original Message- From: IBM iSource [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 8:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements Software _ 203342 Prices restructured: SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 8 for iSeries and pSeries (5.1KB) http://www.ibm.com/isource/cgi-bin/goto?it=usa_annredon=203-342
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
Kevin, I think Adam was hoping for the same change for zSeries as the i/pSeries: one license charge for one physical box, not one license charge per instance. Even so, I don't see how SUSE could make that change either, given the relatively small number of processors used for Linux/390 workload. Mark Post -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin Gates Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 6:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements I just happened to be on the phone with Suse when this came through. The pricebook for 2004 does not yet contain pricing for s/390 or zSeries. I asked if any change was anticipated and the answer was no, that the person was 98% sure it was remaining the same as it is today. So, that is what Suse has to say. My take is that Suse cannot possibly change the pricing structure for s/390 or zSeries. It would make no sense to do so as the increased cost through paying for each instance of Linux would make zLinux highly cost prohibitive in most cases. Like I told the Suse rep, if the model were to change they would see zLinux sales evaporate. Hope this helps, - Kevin (Embedded image moved to file: pic30452.jpg) PLEASE NOTE NEW CONTACT INFORMATION! Kevin Gates DSG Linux Solutions Specialist __ office 480-471-8276 fax 480-452-1470 cell 480-734-1034 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dsgroup.com Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mine.netcc: Sent by: Linux onSubject: Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements 390 Port [EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU 12/16/2003 03:51 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 16:43, Kevin Gates wrote: Enterprise Server 8 for IBM iSeries, incl. 1 year Maintenance Program for 1 server (up to 8 CPUs each) and Installationkit , International (German,English) So you can see that when you purchase SLES8 you can have as many instances as you can run on an up to 8 way box with no additional charge. Well, on an iSeries; is it the same for zSeries, though? Adam
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 17:56, Mark Post wrote: Kevin, I think Adam was hoping for the same change for zSeries as the i/pSeries: one license charge for one physical box, not one license charge per instance. Even so, I don't see how SUSE could make that change either, given the relatively small number of processors used for Linux/390 workload. Well, I can see how SuSE could sanely do either a per-box or per-processor charge. A per-instance charge on zSeries would, however, destroy their Linux/zSeries business. Adam
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
Given the gasps that SUSE and Red Hat's per-processor charge generate now (compared to their other prices) I don't think they can sanely go the per-box route there. The price they would need to charge would turn people off because most of them wouldn't be willing to do the work to figure out what that would mean to them on a per-instance basis. If they could even figure out how many instances they'd be able to get on one box. Mark Post -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Adam Thornton Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 17:56, Mark Post wrote: Kevin, I think Adam was hoping for the same change for zSeries as the i/pSeries: one license charge for one physical box, not one license charge per instance. Even so, I don't see how SUSE could make that change either, given the relatively small number of processors used for Linux/390 workload. Well, I can see how SuSE could sanely do either a per-box or per-processor charge. A per-instance charge on zSeries would, however, destroy their Linux/zSeries business. Adam
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
The current model is a per processor charge on the zSeries. You can run as many instances off of a single processor on the box without having to purchase extra copies of Linux. So, if you have a single IFL you purchase one copy of SLES and run as many instances as you want. If you have 2 IFLs, you have to purchase 2 copies of SLES. - Kevin (Embedded image moved to file: pic13031.jpg) PLEASE NOTE NEW CONTACT INFORMATION! Kevin Gates DSG Linux Solutions Specialist __ office 480-471-8276 fax 480-452-1470 cell 480-734-1034 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dsgroup.com Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mine.netcc: Sent by: Linux onSubject: Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements 390 Port [EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU 12/16/2003 05:05 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 17:56, Mark Post wrote: Kevin, I think Adam was hoping for the same change for zSeries as the i/pSeries: one license charge for one physical box, not one license charge per instance. Even so, I don't see how SUSE could make that change either, given the relatively small number of processors used for Linux/390 workload. Well, I can see how SuSE could sanely do either a per-box or per-processor charge. A per-instance charge on zSeries would, however, destroy their Linux/zSeries business. Adam attachment: pic13031.jpg
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
This interesting little tidbit showed up today. It says that the per-CPU licensing for SLES8 on iSeries and pSeries is being changed to per-install. (The announcement also uses the term per-server install.) Perhaps someone from IBM could comment on this. Does this mean that if someone uses the hypervisor to create (for example) 10 Linux LPARs, they would be charged for 10 licenses, when they might have been charged much less on a per-CPU basis? It's rather vague, and I don't want to spread misinformation if I can avoid it. Mark: Reading this announcement, I can understand the confusion. What it means is that SuSE SLES on iSeries and pSeries is now priced per LPAR. This is consistent with Red Hat RHEL which is also priced per LPAR on iSeries and pSeries. Both SLES and RHEL continue to be priced per processor on zSeries. Note that RHEL is priced per image on Intel and AMD servers so if you were running VMware with 4 RHEL images you would need 4 RHEL licenses. I don't know how SuSE charges in a VMware environment. Jim
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
Jim, Ouch. That's definitely not what I wanted to hear. Sigh. While that will give a break to people who want to assign multiple CPUs to an LPAR, it will punish those that want to assign fractional CPUs to an LPAR. Oh well. I guess that means _only_ CPU-intensive stuff on i/pSeries will be my recommendation from here on out. Mark Post -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jim Elliott Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 6:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements This interesting little tidbit showed up today. It says that the per-CPU licensing for SLES8 on iSeries and pSeries is being changed to per-install. (The announcement also uses the term per-server install.) Perhaps someone from IBM could comment on this. Does this mean that if someone uses the hypervisor to create (for example) 10 Linux LPARs, they would be charged for 10 licenses, when they might have been charged much less on a per-CPU basis? It's rather vague, and I don't want to spread misinformation if I can avoid it. Mark: Reading this announcement, I can understand the confusion. What it means is that SuSE SLES on iSeries and pSeries is now priced per LPAR. This is consistent with Red Hat RHEL which is also priced per LPAR on iSeries and pSeries. Both SLES and RHEL continue to be priced per processor on zSeries. Note that RHEL is priced per image on Intel and AMD servers so if you were running VMware with 4 RHEL images you would need 4 RHEL licenses. I don't know how SuSE charges in a VMware environment. Jim
Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements
Hmmm...there is confusion here, so I sent this thread to Suse and asked them to clear it up here on the list server. I am a big Suse fan and would hate for the wrong message being sent out. (Including from me.) Again, as I understand it, you can have Suse installed on a box with up to x CPUs and run as many instances of Linux as you can on that box. Here is an out-take from the Suse 2004 price list (which does not yet contain zSeries pricing, BTW) I work with Suse on a daily basis and I have not been told of a shift to LPAR based pricing similar to Red Hat's. (Of course if they have, I'l feel real stoopid!) Enterprise Server 8 for IBM pSeries, evaluation version, incl. 3 months Maintenance Program for 1 server (up to 8 CPUs each) and Installationkit ,International (German, English) This is confusing wording, but from what I understand there is no per LPAR charge. Now far be it for lil' ol' me to disagree with Jim. :) Hence, I sent the thread to Suse and told them they should get up on the list server post haste and clear the fog. I expect they should sometime tomorrow. - Kevin (Embedded image moved to file: pic09905.jpg) PLEASE NOTE NEW CONTACT INFORMATION! Kevin Gates DSG Linux Solutions Specialist __ office 480-471-8276 fax 480-452-1470 cell 480-734-1034 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dsgroup.com Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] et cc: Sent by: Linux onSubject: Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements 390 Port [EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU 12/16/2003 05:37 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port Jim, Ouch. That's definitely not what I wanted to hear. Sigh. While that will give a break to people who want to assign multiple CPUs to an LPAR, it will punish those that want to assign fractional CPUs to an LPAR. Oh well. I guess that means _only_ CPU-intensive stuff on i/pSeries will be my recommendation from here on out. Mark Post -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jim Elliott Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 6:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FW: IBM iSource -- U.S. Announcements This interesting little tidbit showed up today. It says that the per-CPU licensing for SLES8 on iSeries and pSeries is being changed to per-install. (The announcement also uses the term per-server install.) Perhaps someone from IBM could comment on this. Does this mean that if someone uses the hypervisor to create (for example) 10 Linux LPARs, they would be charged for 10 licenses, when they might have been charged much less on a per-CPU basis? It's rather vague, and I don't want to spread misinformation if I can avoid it. Mark: Reading this announcement, I can understand the confusion. What it means is that SuSE SLES on iSeries and pSeries is now priced per LPAR. This is consistent with Red Hat RHEL which is also priced per LPAR on iSeries and pSeries. Both SLES and RHEL continue to be priced per processor on zSeries. Note that RHEL is priced per image on Intel and AMD servers so if you were running VMware with 4 RHEL images you would need 4 RHEL licenses. I don't know how SuSE charges in a VMware environment. Jim attachment: pic09905.jpg
