test
test. --- Oleg Kobets Network Administrator www.clean-mail.net Make love with Linux (unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; umount; sleep) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FreeBSD vs Linux vs Windows 2000
thought you might find this interesting : http://people.freebsd.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html -- == Amir Tal Founder, Owner Whatsup, Hebrew Linux Portal Voice:+972-8-9363164 Fax: +972-8-9363164 Cell: +972-58-978979 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: www.whatsup.org.il ICQ : 15748705 == = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD vs Linux vs Windows 2000
At 11:56 +0200 on 14/12/2002, Amir Tal wrote: thought you might find this interesting : http://people.freebsd.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html A bit out of date, isn't it? It talks about Linux 2.4 in future tense, also on journalling FS. Herouth -- EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] HOME PAGE: http://herouth.port5.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD vs Linux vs Windows 2000
On Saturday 14 December 2002 11:56 am, you wrote: thought you might find this interesting : http://people.freebsd.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html Too much in favour of BSD as compared to Linux...:). Almost all the points are history today and it only goes to show the fast rate of Linux progress... They even twist a few facts (like not giving BSD a poorer grade than Linux in the support section). The BSD people are in a real dilemma as I can see it: They do have a more secure and reviewed system but they fail to understand that the Wild Wild West nature of Linux, while maybe lowering the OS security some, is causing the Linux kernel to advance at a much more rapid pace than BSD. While the BSD people are carefully checking for dog shit with every move they take they see Linus runnig like crazy and he has long left them behind...:) Cheers, Mark To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD vs Linux vs Windows 2000
On Sat, Dec 14, 2002 at 12:49:01PM +0200, Mark Veltzer wrote: The BSD people are in a real dilemma as I can see it: They do have a more secure and reviewed system but they fail to understand that the Wild Wild West nature of Linux, while maybe lowering the OS security some, is causing the Linux kernel to advance at a much more rapid pace than BSD. While the BSD people are carefully checking for dog shit with every move they take they see Linus runnig like crazy and he has long left them behind...:) Not expressing any constructive opinion, your paragraph here is just saying that BSD guys are more professional. -- http://www.uadm.com | Local and Remote Unix/Linux [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Administration. No outsourcing. Phone: +972 3 6201373 | Security, Installations, Support http://www.uadm.com/pgp.key | Upgrades and Maintenance. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD vs Linux vs Windows 2000
On Saturday 14 December 2002 01:00 pm, you wrote: Not expressing any constructive opinion, your paragraph here is just saying that BSD guys are more professional. That depends on your definition of professional. If professional is careful up to the point of stagnation then professional is a dirty word. I'm not saying that BSD is stagnating. What I am saying is that there is a never ending conflict in the software business between letting new ideas in and keeping with the old in favour of stability and security. MS could be said, by your definition, to be very professional since they are very careful not to break backward compatibility (it is true that they have broken it several times but in the course of 20 years they have done it much less than others in the expicit aim of keeping their user base.). Is this type of behaviour professional ? I think not. They have hurt their users with this backward compatibility a lot more. When you're designing an OS you need to be able to experiment with different subsystem designs. If you don't experminent you can't understand where you want to go. If you are too careful about security your release rate of new concepts goes down drastically since you never release anything until it is audited. This means that your experimentation rate goes down drastically and so does your understanding of what design you'd rather have in the future. This hurts your users in the long run but keeps them happy in the short. professional is such a murky word...:) cheers, Mark To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD vs Linux vs Windows 2000
On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Mark Veltzer wrote: On Saturday 14 December 2002 11:56 am, you wrote: thought you might find this interesting : http://people.freebsd.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html Too much in favour of BSD as compared to Linux...:). Almost all the points are history today and it only goes to show the fast rate of Linux progress... They even twist a few facts (like not giving BSD a poorer grade than Linux in the support section). hmmm it was as much in favour of fbsd as your post is in favour of linux. i wonder why :-) The BSD people are in a real dilemma as I can see it: They do have a more secure and reviewed system but they fail to understand that the Wild Wild West nature of Linux, while maybe lowering the OS security some, is causing the Linux kernel to advance at a much more rapid pace than BSD. While the BSD people are carefully checking for dog shit with every move they take they see Linus runnig like crazy and he has long left them behind...:) so your point is: ok, bsd guys, you are better, but we are wild, and have more followers. right ? FreeBSD has a.f.a.i.k. no marketing departaments, and linux, in each distro has... don't you think that if (although all the marketing effort of linux) FreeBSD still is alive, advances and kicking...it is a warning sign for linux ? i think it is. i hope you know that Apple's Mac OS 10 (or OS X) - is FreeBSD kernel with some additions... Cheers. Max. Cheers, Mark To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Blessed Religious Wars [Was: Mandrake 9.0 is fantastic]
On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Eli Marmor wrote: PC Magazine, for example, has done a great job for years, with 22 annual comparisons, per year. One of those comparisons, repeated any year, compared all the printers that were announced that year (more than 100 PER YEAR). These comparisons covered almost anything you can imagine. They were very objective, although some of the competitors advertised in PC-Magazine. and because this kind of thing takes a lot of effort - they only did it for a more important products in their field. and they sell the magazine for money, to a lot of subscribers. perhaps then you are approaching the wrong crowd - you should approach the different linux magazines with this suggestion - hopeing they begin it now, and be able to grow the ammount of products tested, as their circulation (as they call it) increases. If it is a strategic decision for you and/or your company, maybe it will pay to do the research yourself. You have a very good head start cynic Let's go forward: if it's strategic, maybe it will pay to develop it from scratch! /cynic then don't be a perfectionist. there are only a _few_ stategic decisions a company needs to make. most other decisoins are simply tactical decisions, and can be corrected - _if_ the need arises. already. You know of a wide range of products that fit the general description. This is much more than most people start with. List your criteria, search for information about each product and try to grade them based on each criterion. Such comparative tables do help. If nothing else, it will clarify quite a few things for you, and will help you make informed decisions. You can't just harvest details from the Internet and build a check list; You should try all of the choices in order to get a decision. This is the only way to decide which of them is really the easiet. And which of them is really the fastest. But this forces you to download and install all of them learn all of them, etc. well, you don't really have to download and test all of them, not with a full-scale test. when i need something form the open source world, i first try what i know about - if it is good enough, i take it. for things i'm not aware of a 'category killer' for, i google, read about a few, cancel most on the bases of their APIs or config file formats, or so, try one or two, and then decide if one is good enough, or i'll write it on my own. i also sometimes just read about tools randomally, assuming that knowing them would probably come handy in the future. you might argue that with a better tool, i could do what i wanted in less time. but this time is time i already saved by only doing a rather shallow comparison. so there's a trade off here. if you waste too much time on the comparisons, you eventually lose time on doing what you actually want to do. and eventually, what you're measured with is what you bring to the customer in, at the end of the day. -- guy, who taught himself that perfectionism will only make him miserable. For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD vs Linux vs Windows 2000
On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Max K. wrote: FreeBSD has a.f.a.i.k. no marketing departaments, and linux, in each distro has... don't you think that if (although all the marketing effort of linux) FreeBSD still is alive, advances and kicking...it is a warning sign for linux ? i think it is. Sure it ain't. What's wrong with some friendly competetion? Some things may be better in linux, other things may be better in freebsd (or other free bsds), but they have always borrowed features fom one another (even with the licensing limitations). Cheers -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Compaq Evo N1015v
I'm having trouble getting RedHat 8.0 to install on my brother new shiny $SUBJECT. The installation seems to proceed fine up till the phase were it seems to be trying to access the CDROM at which point it halts with no error message - just a blank installation screen. Accept for the fact that the installation halts without a message, the symptoms and log messages are identical to the ones reported in this message from the redhat installers mailing list: http://www.redhat.com/mailing-lists/redhat-install-list/msg25409.html Sadly, no solution is offered there. If anyone has succeeded in installing any Linux distribution on this computer, or read anywhere about a solution to this problem or even has a wild idea, kindly let me know. It would be rather embarcing for me to admit that I can't get Linux installed on my brother new laptop and firther more because of the very cheap prices HP offers these beasts lately I would wager that I would not be the last to run into this. Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Geeks rock bands cool name #8192: RAID against the machine = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Compaq Evo N1015v
This may be a little wild but try making the boot floppies for the RH8 install then copy the ISO images of the install CD's onto the Compaq's Hard disk (You'll need to make a partition large enough to handle the 3 files). Then boot from the install floppy and select Hard Disk when asked for the location of the installation media. I don't know what capacity hard disk you have in the machine but if it's new this shouldn't be a problem. Once you're done with the install you can get rid of the partition containing the ISO's (with Linux fdisk, or whatever). Hope that helps. Ben Hornedo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Gilad Ben-Yossef Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 3:23 PM To: Raft of Circumcised Penguins Subject: Compaq Evo N1015v I'm having trouble getting RedHat 8.0 to install on my brother new shiny $SUBJECT. The installation seems to proceed fine up till the phase were it seems to be trying to access the CDROM at which point it halts with no error message - just a blank installation screen. Accept for the fact that the installation halts without a message, the symptoms and log messages are identical to the ones reported in this message from the redhat installers mailing list: http://www.redhat.com/mailing-lists/redhat-install-list/msg25409.html Sadly, no solution is offered there. If anyone has succeeded in installing any Linux distribution on this computer, or read anywhere about a solution to this problem or even has a wild idea, kindly let me know. It would be rather embarcing for me to admit that I can't get Linux installed on my brother new laptop and firther more because of the very cheap prices HP offers these beasts lately I would wager that I would not be the last to run into this. Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Geeks rock bands cool name #8192: RAID against the machine = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Compaq Evo N1015v
On 2002-12-14, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: I'm having trouble getting RedHat 8.0 to install on my brother new shiny $SUBJECT. The installation seems to proceed fine up till the phase were it seems to be trying to access the CDROM at which point it halts with no error message - just a blank installation screen. hmm... as a last option you could try to install something that doesn't require a cdrom. I'ts may not solve the cdrom issue, but at least the rest of linux will work. I can speak at least for slackware, where this would be quite easy -- copy the insallation files (some 400MB of *.tgz) somewhere on your harddrive (maybe on an existing windoze partition?), then boot into slackware (+- two floppies needed), and then start the setup program, pointing it to those 400MB on your disk. I guess other distros can do this too, but I don't know. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD vs Linux vs Windows 2000
At 13:16 +0200 on 14/12/2002, Max K. wrote: i hope you know that Apple's Mac OS 10 (or OS X) - is FreeBSD kernel with some additions... Actually, it is said to be something between FreeBSD and NetBSD... Anyway, this connects to the thread about professional maintenance of backwards compatibility. MacOS has maintained backward compatibility in an admirable fashion. I still have applications on my Mac which date back to 1988, and still work. But they did improve the system all the time. At the time those applications were made, the system didn't have threads or even virtual memory. Moreover, it was based on the old Motorola architecture. They made the transition to RISC in such a smooth fashion that you didn't hear a creak. They are now making the transition to MacOS X with as much smoothness - by running the old system within the new system so that users are not lost. And all the time they keep improving the system, adding new memory management, filesystems, and so on. Point being - since I'm sure my lecture is not easy on the ears of the free-software junkies, MacOS being a proprietary piece of software (with all the drawbacks) - you can be both professional in maintaining your user base and not breaking their work at every stem, and keep innovating and advancing, and even take serious steps when the old technology becomes untenable (move to RISC, change to a unix core). If either FreeBSD or Linux learn from this example, they'll take the lead. Maybe this is why efforts such as CrossoverOffice are important. Herouth -- EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] HOME PAGE: http://herouth.port5.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD vs Linux vs Windows 2000
On Sat, Dec 14, 2002 at 08:17:38PM +0200, Herouth Maoz wrote: Point being - since I'm sure my lecture is not easy on the ears of the free-software junkies, MacOS being a proprietary piece of software (with all the drawbacks) - you can be both professional in maintaining your user base and not breaking their work at every stem, and keep innovating and advancing, and even take serious steps when the old technology becomes untenable (move to RISC, change to a unix core). There aren't many points where binary compatibility was broken inbetween releases in the free software either. The Linux kernel system calls remain the same, the X server can accept clients which were written when X11 was just introduced, major libraries retain binary compatibility (easier for C, harder for C++ -- read http://developer.kde.org/documentation/library/kdeqt/kde3arch/devel-binarycompatibility.html ) or branch to new versions. In fact, while Microsoft only recently introduced their solution to DLL hell in form of assemblies which publish the versions they support and programs which link against a specific version of the DLL, we had a solution for years, in form of the .so.X.Y.Z versioning convention. e.g. when Trolltech felt the need to change their Qt API considerably, they branched into Qt 3.0. You can keep the 2.x version along for old programs. Same with GTK and GNOME. And yet, programs seem to break between Linux versions -- so there are offenders. I think the biggest history of breakage belongs to glibc, and then g++ (maybe the switch to the standard ABI would be the last one?). Maybe that's because they feel less obliged to keep old cruft (which really hurts the eyes; admit it, all of you who code :) since the project is their hobby. There was an interesting article called Ten Reasons We Need Java 3.0 ( http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2002/07/31/java3.html ) which outlined the amount of cruft which gathered in Java's relatively-modern API. I bet Sun's coders are quite jealous at the Microsoft guys who got the opportunity to design the .NET APIs from scratch :) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Announcement: free Hebrew Spell-Checker
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 áéåí ùéùé, 13 áãöîáø 2002, 19:22, Nadav Har'El ëúá òì 'Announcement: free Hebrew Spell-Checker': We are proud to announce version 0.1 of Hspell, the free Hebrew spellchecker and morphology engine. Can you please expand on the reasons you chose not to incorporate the generated word lists as a language package to some existing spell checker (such as myspell or aspell) and thus making it immidietly useful for end users ? - -- Oded -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9+8MvkltamOf8EzsRAqm9AKCs1VHCiAdER/p8yX5fWJBVx2VlJwCg5caE rgYBdwa3p04u6M+wyytBv3A= =GvI7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Compaq Evo N1015v
On Sat, Dec 14, 2002 at 06:27:10PM +0200, Christoph Bugel wrote: On 2002-12-14, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: I'm having trouble getting RedHat 8.0 to install on my brother new shiny $SUBJECT. The installation seems to proceed fine up till the phase were it seems to be trying to access the CDROM at which point it halts with no error message - just a blank installation screen. By what follows I gather that the halt does not occur during the drives probe during the boot process. hmm... as a last option you could try to install something that doesn't require a cdrom. I'ts may not solve the cdrom issue, but at least the rest of linux will work. I can speak at least for slackware, where this would be quite easy -- copy the insallation files (some 400MB of *.tgz) somewhere on your harddrive (maybe on an existing windoze partition?), then boot into slackware (+- two floppies needed), and then start the setup program, pointing it to those 400MB on your disk. In addition to what you described, Debian can save you the trouble to install anything on your drive prior to the actual installation. This is done by its off the network installation. Of course that necessitates a NIC. Maybe it works with a modem too. I guess other distros can do this too, but I don't know. So do I. -- Shaul Karl, [EMAIL PROTECTED] e t = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
