Re: How to install several kernels on Debian

2015-12-15 Thread Oleg Goldshmidt 
Yedidyah Bar David  writes:

> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt  wrote:
>>
>> this is something that Red Hat do without being asked
>> (they keep several versions, usually 3), so it is something that seems
>> natural to me.
>
> Generally, should work similarly in Debian.

So what's the apt-get equivalent of yum install (as apt-get install is
similar to yum update)?

> This break due a specific different issue, not because Debian does not
> support this in general.

I think that the root cause is that "apt-get install" updates rather
than installing together.

> No idea about your specific issue. Did you try to also upgrade udev and
> initramfs-tools?

Will my 3.2 keep working? I have no confidence in that. Again, I do not
want to "upgrade" anything - I want to switch between several kernels at
will. I also do not want to compile - I want stock Debian kernels.

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org

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Re: How to install several kernels on Debian

2015-12-15 Thread Yedidyah Bar David 
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am confused and I wonder if some Debian expert can calm me down. I
> want to install several different kernel versions on a Debian
> server. Off-topic: this is something that Red Hat do without being asked
> (they keep several versions, usually 3), so it is something that seems
> natural to me.

Generally, should work similarly in Debian.

>
> However, I cannot find any documentation anywhere on the 'net that tells
> me how to get two or more kernel versions on the same Debian machine without
> compiling. I just want to install 2 or more linux-image packages and
> whatever else needs to be installed - and have them in grub, etc. The
> only things I see are "don't install new kernels" and "you can upgrade"
> and "download and compile".
>
> # apt-cache search linux-image
>
> shows 3.2.0, 4.2.0, and 2.6. I will be happy with the first two (though
> I'd like something in between as well).
>
> However,
>
> # apt-get install linux-image-4.2.0-1-amd64
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
> or been moved out of Incoming.
> The following information may help to resolve the situation:
>
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>  linux-image-4.2.0-1-amd64 : Breaks: initramfs-tools (< 0.110~) but
>  0.109.1 is to be installed
>Breaks: udev (< 208-8~) but 175-7.2 is to be installed
>E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
>
> does not add to my confidence. I want 2 kernels, 2 initial ramdisks,
> etc., on the same machine and in the same grub without investing time to
> compile.

This break due a specific different issue, not because Debian does not
support this in general.

No idea about your specific issue. Did you try to also upgrade udev and
initramfs-tools?
-- 
Didi

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Re: Re: How to install several kernels on Debian

2015-12-15 Thread Boris Shtrasman 
Good day , 

On Tuesday 15 December 2015 13:55:19 Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
> Boris Shtrasman  writes:
> 
> > Let me explain , the 3.2 version and 4.2 are sitting in different
> > branches
> 
> Both are available from wheezy (with apt-get install -t wheezy to be sure)

I  did a minor test on a amd64 arch again , setting up only wheezy and 
stable/updates

apt-get update 

Hit http://security.debian.org stable/updates InRelease 
 
Ign http://http.debian.net wheezy InRelease  
Hit http://security.debian.org stable/updates/main amd64 Packages 
Hit http://http.debian.net wheezy Release.gpg  
Hit http://security.debian.org stable/updates/main i386 Packages 
Hit http://security.debian.org stable/updates/main Translation-en
Hit http://http.debian.net wheezy Release  
Hit http://http.debian.net wheezy/main amd64 Packages 
Hit http://http.debian.net wheezy/main i386 Packages 
Hit http://http.debian.net wheezy/main Translation-en 
Reading package lists... Done 

checking about 4.2: 

apt-cache policy linux-image-4.2 
linux-image-4.2.0-1-amd64: 
 Installed: 4.2.6-3 
 Candidate: 4.2.6-3 
 Version table: 
*** 4.2.6-3 0 
   100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

compare the result to 3.2 :

apt-cache policy linux-image-3.2 
linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64: 
 Installed: (none) 
 Candidate: 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 
 Version table: 
3.2.68-1+deb7u3 0 
   500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages 
linux-image-3.2.0-4-rt-amd64-dbg: 
 Installed: (none) 
 Candidate: 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 
 Version table: 
3.2.68-1+deb7u3 0 
   500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages 
linux-image-3.2.0-4-rt-amd64: 
 Installed: (none) 
 Candidate: 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 
 Version table: 
3.2.68-1+deb7u3 0 
   500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages 
linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64-dbg: 
 Installed: (none) 
 Candidate: 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 
 Version table: 
3.2.68-1+deb7u3 0 
   500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages 
linux-image-3.2.0-2-amd64: 
 Installed: (none) 
 Candidate: (none) 
 Version table: 
3.2.20-1 0 
   100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

As I mentioned before please share your sources.list , or the output of apt-get 
update. 
If you can add the results for apt-cache policy linux-image-4.2 that might 
clear my confusion 

I think it might benefit you to use a local server (example mirror.isoc.org.il 
) which would be close to your setup and not the redirector because when I 
tried to use it with a vpn in Israel (with an Israeli vpn) I was allegedly sent 
to http://mirror.datacenter.by/debian/
(according to http://http.debian.net/demo.html) 


Requesting a package from a distribution  without setting preferences or exact 
version has a good chance that the dependencies will be taken from packages 
with the highest priority available (most recent version).
you could use the preferences file I sent you as a good start, alternatively 
you can work with pinning version; but in any case sharing your sources along 
with providing the output for apt-cache policy linux-image-4.2 would clear some 
of the question I raised. 

> but 4.2 does not install as described. Answering your other
> questions, it is not a weird or intriguing setup. It is an official
> mirror.
 
I'm sorry but having 4.2 in wheezy *without* backports or some manual setting 
is intriguing results for me. 

> They also cheerfully sit together in
> http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/l/linux.
> 

That is not how mirrors work , when several brands/dists reside on the same 
server they will have files by section (in this case main) but packages will 
point to the correct location.
what you need to look into the release and Packages files (to see what is 
included and how it works) 

For wheezy / master : 

$wget http://ftp.cz.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2
$bunzip2 Packages.bz2
$grep Package Packages | grep linux-image 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-486 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae-dbg 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-rt-686-pae 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-rt-686-pae-dbg 
Package: linux-image-2.6-486 
Package: linux-image-2.6-686 
Package: linux-image-2.6-686-bigmem 
Package: linux-image-2.6-686-pae 
Package: linux-image-2.6-amd64 
Package: linux-image-486 
Package: linux-image-686 
Package: linux-image-686-bigmem 
Package: linux-image-686-pae 
Package: linux-image-amd64 
Package: linux-image-rt-686-pae

> > In most cases it is no hussle as long as you relaying on
> > stable/testing unstable and having an updated system , for example you
> > have stable + stable/updates
> 
> That's what it is (no testing though). But it does not work. :-(
> 

wheezy is old-stable not stable. 


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Re: How to install several kernels on Debian

2015-12-15 Thread Tzafrir Cohen 
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 02:03:34PM +0200, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
> Yedidyah Bar David  writes:
> 
> > On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt  
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> this is something that Red Hat do without being asked
> >> (they keep several versions, usually 3), so it is something that seems
> >> natural to me.
> >
> > Generally, should work similarly in Debian.
> 
> So what's the apt-get equivalent of yum install (as apt-get install is
> similar to yum update)?

You can't have multiple versions of the same package installed. Note
that a kernel package with a different release (uname -r) has a
different name, and is thus a different package - they don't conflict.

> > No idea about your specific issue. Did you try to also upgrade udev and
> > initramfs-tools?
> 
> Will my 3.2 keep working? I have no confidence in that. Again, I do not
> want to "upgrade" anything - I want to switch between several kernels at
> will. I also do not want to compile - I want stock Debian kernels.

Thus you can keep your 3.2 kernel. It's a different package.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
tzaf...@cohens.org.il ||  best
tzaf...@debian.org|| friend

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Re: How to install several kernels on Debian

2015-12-15 Thread Tzafrir Cohen 
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 04:20:42PM +0200, geoffrey mendelson wrote:
> On 12/15/2015 3:12 PM, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
> >
> >I  did a minor test on a amd64 arch again , setting up only wheezy and 
> >stable/updates
> >
> >
> I recently install Ubuntu 15.10 on a system amd64 arch,  and it installed
> vmlinuz-4.2.0-16-generic as the kernel. I later ran software update and it
> installed vmlinuz-4.2.0-19-generic, but kept the older kernel.
> 
> 
> I will admit Ubuntu is not debian, but the package tools provided by debian
> are used by it.

Ubuntu bumps the kernel revision (and hence change the name of the
kernel packagee) on practically every kernel upgrade. Debian does its
best to maintain the same kernel revision (and try to guarantee a stable
ABI to kernel modules).

Thus same tools but different policy.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
tzaf...@cohens.org.il ||  best
tzaf...@debian.org|| friend

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Re: How to install several kernels on Debian

2015-12-15 Thread Yedidyah Bar David 
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt  wrote:
> Yedidyah Bar David  writes:
>
>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt  wrote:
>>>
>>> this is something that Red Hat do without being asked
>>> (they keep several versions, usually 3), so it is something that seems
>>> natural to me.
>>
>> Generally, should work similarly in Debian.
>
> So what's the apt-get equivalent of yum install (as apt-get install is
> similar to yum update)?

In a sense, you are right, but not in the way you intended: yum
install will also
update an installed package if an update is available.

>
>> This break due a specific different issue, not because Debian does not
>> support this in general.
>
> I think that the root cause is that "apt-get install" updates rather
> than installing together.
>
>> No idea about your specific issue. Did you try to also upgrade udev and
>> initramfs-tools?
>
> Will my 3.2 keep working? I have no confidence in that. Again, I do not
> want to "upgrade" anything - I want to switch between several kernels at
> will. I also do not want to compile - I want stock Debian kernels.

AFAICS wheezy had 3.2, jessie has 3.16.

My laptop was upgraded from wheezy to jessie and has both kernels installed.
IIRC I successfully booted the 3.2 one after the upgrade, didn't try
that recently,
as I have no need for that.

Didn't check about udev and initramfs-tools.

The kernel packages normally arrive with a kernel image, plus many modules.
initramfs-tools is used to build an initrd image, which mainly includes the
relevant modules.

In principle, building such an initrd of the 3.2 kernel with
jessie-updated tools
is indeed risky.

I am pretty certain that the above is almost identical in rhel/centos/fedora,
except that upgrading there between releases is significantly different.
-- 
Didi

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Re: How to install several kernels on Debian

2015-12-15 Thread geoffrey mendelson 

On 12/15/2015 3:12 PM, Boris Shtrasman wrote:


I  did a minor test on a amd64 arch again , setting up only wheezy and 
stable/updates


I recently install Ubuntu 15.10 on a system amd64 arch,  and it 
installed vmlinuz-4.2.0-16-generic as the kernel. I later ran software 
update and it installed vmlinuz-4.2.0-19-generic, but kept the older 
kernel.



I will admit Ubuntu is not debian, but the package tools provided by 
debian are used by it.



Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.


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How to install several kernels on Debian

2015-12-13 Thread Oleg Goldshmidt 

Hi,

I am confused and I wonder if some Debian expert can calm me down. I
want to install several different kernel versions on a Debian
server. Off-topic: this is something that Red Hat do without being asked
(they keep several versions, usually 3), so it is something that seems
natural to me.

However, I cannot find any documentation anywhere on the 'net that tells
me how to get two or more kernel versions on the same Debian machine without
compiling. I just want to install 2 or more linux-image packages and
whatever else needs to be installed - and have them in grub, etc. The
only things I see are "don't install new kernels" and "you can upgrade"
and "download and compile".

# apt-cache search linux-image

shows 3.2.0, 4.2.0, and 2.6. I will be happy with the first two (though
I'd like something in between as well). 

However,

# apt-get install linux-image-4.2.0-1-amd64
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 linux-image-4.2.0-1-amd64 : Breaks: initramfs-tools (< 0.110~) but
 0.109.1 is to be installed
   Breaks: udev (< 208-8~) but 175-7.2 is to be installed
   E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

does not add to my confidence. I want 2 kernels, 2 initial ramdisks,
etc., on the same machine and in the same grub without investing time to
compile. 

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org

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