Re: Kosher for Passover software
On Thursday 01 Apr 2010 07:53:18 Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh wrote: On 04/01/10 07:40, Nadav Har'El wrote: We should especially avoid free software - because much of it was written by gentiles who eat bread during Passover! Following that logic, you should also avoid using any of M$ software, since it was mostly written by gentiles as well, and sure as hell, there was lot of bacon in the M$ headquarters cafeteria. Why are you saying M$ instead of MS? Don't you know the dollar signs ($) is not kosher for Passover since U.S. dollars constitute leavened bread? This makes all Perl, PHP and Bash/zsh code (And some Ruby and Haskell code) non- kosher for Passover. Seriously now - I detest people who use M$ instead of MS, not as much because I respect Microsoft (which I do to a substantial extent), but because I respect the dollar-sign, which among other things is the emblem of Objectivism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_%28Ayn_Rand%29 Regards, Shlomi Fish (who is about to embark on a mission to write a fully kosher operating system from scratch to avoid any foreign worship influences on software used by heavens'-fearing Jews.) פסח כשר ושמח (And happy April fools as well :) -- Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh http://www.total-knowledge.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ What does Zionism mean? - http://shlom.in/def-zionism Deletionists delete Wikipedia articles that they consider lame. Chuck Norris deletes deletionists whom he considers lame. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On 04/01/10 09:06, Shlomi Fish wrote: Why are you saying M$ instead of MS? Don't you know the dollar signs ($) is not kosher for Passover since U.S. dollars constitute leavened bread? This makes all Perl, PHP and Bash/zsh code (And some Ruby and Haskell code) non- kosher for Passover. I'm not kosher either (for Passover or otherwise), so it's OK. Seriously now - I detest people who use M$ instead of MS, not as much because I respect Microsoft (which I do to a substantial extent), but because I respect the dollar-sign, There seems to be a contradiction in your words. 1. You say that you don't like people who use M$ 2. You say that you respect the dollar sign. 3. You say that you respect the company. How is combining two things you respect is a bad thing? -- Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh http://www.total-knowledge.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On Thursday 01 Apr 2010 10:30:36 Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh wrote: On 04/01/10 09:06, Shlomi Fish wrote: Why are you saying M$ instead of MS? Don't you know the dollar signs ($) is not kosher for Passover since U.S. dollars constitute leavened bread? This makes all Perl, PHP and Bash/zsh code (And some Ruby and Haskell code) non- kosher for Passover. I'm not kosher either (for Passover or otherwise), so it's OK. Shame on you! I'm not going to associate with Shqatzim such as yourself. Seriously now - I detest people who use M$ instead of MS, not as much because I respect Microsoft (which I do to a substantial extent), but because I respect the dollar-sign, There seems to be a contradiction in your words. 1. You say that you don't like people who use M$ 2. You say that you respect the dollar sign. 3. You say that you respect the company. How is combining two things you respect is a bad thing? Well, first of all, it should be noted that the $ sign is generally associated with greed for money (Like Make $$$ fast.) etc. so this is what people are implying by writing M$ instead of MS. By associating the $ sign with Microsoft, one implies that either Microsoft is negatively greedy (which may be the case, but all good companies, including the open source ones, want to have profits too, and there's nothing wrong with that), or that the $ sign is negative just like Microsoft is perceived to be (and are to a large extent). If M$ implied respect for both the dollar sign and for Microsoft, it would be OK, but fact is it undermines both. Regards, $hlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Interview with Ben Collins-Sussman - http://shlom.in/sussman Deletionists delete Wikipedia articles that they consider lame. Chuck Norris deletes deletionists whom he considers lame. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: Well, first of all, it should be noted that the $ sign is generally associated with greed for money (Like Make $$$ fast.) etc. So you say Larry Wall makes all of us Perl programmers greedy? He basically invented the extensive use of the $ signs: use 5.010; $what = the_answer; $$what = 42; say $the_answer; say $$$what; If M$ implied respect for both the dollar sign and for Microsoft, it would be OK, but fact is it undermines both. I think /M$/ just means it ends with an M but I am just a greedy Perl hacker. Gabor http://szabgab.com/ ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Shlomi Fish wrote: Well, first of all, it should be noted that the $ sign is generally associated with greed for money (Like Make $$$ fast.) etc. so this is what people are implying by writing M$ instead of MS. By associating the $ sign with Microsoft, one implies that either Microsoft is negatively greedy (which may be the case, but all good companies, including the open source ones, want to have profits too, and there's nothing wrong with that), or that the $ sign is negative just like Microsoft is perceived to be (and are to a large extent). Actually the Dollar sign, was originally written with 2 vertical lines. It was the monogram of US (United States). As for writing an operating system, you might as well give up it. It's already done. You can (actually have to) buy Solaris from Larry Ellison, a Jew. This eliminates the need to toivel the disks, even if they contain hot fixes. And since it must be bought (open solaris is on its way out, and there are no more free licenses for solaris), the talmudic requirment to pay a fair price for something is fulfilled. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com New word I coined 12/13/09, Sub-Wikipedia adj, describing knowledge or understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation. i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 11:21:43AM +0300, geoffrey mendelson wrote: On Apr 1, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Gabor Szabo wrote: So you say Larry Wall makes all of us Perl programmers greedy? He basically invented the extensive use of the $ signs: I think the Bourne Shell preceeds that by a few years. So when one writes 'M$' one implies that they are UNIX copycats. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:40:21 +0300 Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: We're in the middle of Passover, and apparently observant Jews who are computer users are facing a new problem: a famous Rabbi has just declared [1] that during the week of Passover, observant Jews must only use software which has been certified Kosher-for-Passover. How can software possibly contain chometz? And who eats software anyway? :-) As it turns out, it's not just that you're not allowed to eat chometz on Passover - you're not allowed even to benefit from it. Observant jews already make sure that during Passover, their dogs eat kosher-for-passover Where can you get kosher for passover dog/cat food? I always have to stock up for my cats as the super markets just hide the pet food but never bring any alternatives. Not that I know why my cats would want to eat kosher anyway, but in case we run out ... dogfood, their toilet paper is free of chometz, and the milk they drink comes from cows that hadn't eaten chometz. The new decision is that using software which benefited from chometz during Passover is disallowed. And how can software possibly benefit from chometz? Easy - Napoleon once said that the army marches on its stomache. Likewise, programmers eat, and without food, there can be no software. If programmers ate chometz on Passover, and you use this software, you're benefiting from chometz on Passover, which is not allowed. Here in the Israeli software industry we're in a unique position to produce kosher-for-passover software, because most of our programmers eat only kosher-for-passover food during passover. If we only make sure not to accidentally mix-in pieces of chometz software into our kosher software. We should especially avoid free software - because much of it was written by gentiles who eat bread during Passover! Happy holiday! Nadav. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On Apr 1, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Micha Feigin wrote: Where can you get kosher for passover dog/cat food? I always have to stock up for my cats as the super markets just hide the pet food but never bring any alternatives. Not that I know why my cats would want to eat kosher anyway, but in case we run out ... Usually we get it at the local super, but any of the kosher only supermarkets should have it. Maybe it's a regional thing, many of the stores here in Jerusalem have it. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com New word I coined 12/13/09, Sub-Wikipedia adj, describing knowledge or understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation. i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On 01/04/2010, at 07:40, Nadav Har'El wrote: How can software possibly contain chometz? And who eats software anyway? :-) As it turns out, it's not just that you're not allowed to eat chometz on Passover - you're not allowed even to benefit from it. Observant jews already make sure that during Passover, their dogs eat kosher-for- passover dogfood, their toilet paper is free of chometz, and the milk they drink comes from cows that hadn't eaten chometz. The new decision is that using software which benefited from chometz during Passover is disallowed. And how can software possibly benefit from chometz? Easy - Napoleon once said that the army marches on its stomache. Likewise, programmers eat, and without food, there can be no software. If programmers ate chometz on Passover, and you use this software, you're benefiting from chometz on Passover, which is not allowed. Your rabbi must have drank the full four cups of wine of the Seder and added some VAT over that, before he made that decree, because, obviously, gentiles *are* allowed to eat as much chometz as they wish. That's why the local rabbinates sell all of the chometz within their jurisdiction to a friendly Muslim before Passover. Here in the Israeli software industry we're in a unique position to produce kosher-for-passover software, because most of our programmers eat only kosher-for-passover food during passover. If we only make sure not to accidentally mix-in pieces of chometz software into our kosher software. In fact, since Israel has an overwhelming majority of Jews, out of which many are - oy vey - secular, Israeli software is highly likely to be non-kosher according to your inebriated rabbi. We should especially avoid free software - because much of it was written by gentiles who eat bread during Passover! It's much more likely that software written by complete gentiles will be entirely kosher. However, we should carefully trace the authors of every piece of code, SCO-style, and find out whether they are Jews, and if they are, whether they ate any chometz during passover. If they are gentile, all the better. So, the question whether free or non-free software is better for Passover is in fact a serious Halachaic problem. On the one hand, this is the feast of freedom, and enslaved software should be avoided. Then again, commercial software is comparable to a cathedral while free software to a bazaar. And since when is a cathedral kosher? Also, free software's code is a lot easier to trace to individual authors. On the other hand, it's easier to make commercial software kosher, by selling it to a gentile for the duration of Passover. Bill Gates, for example, can claim that all the food eaten at MSFT headquarters belongs to him anyway, and therefore, because he is a gentile, his operation is totally kosher. Apple is a little less lucky, because rumour has it that Steve Jobs is partly Jewish. Oy. But you can't sell free software to anybody. So if there were any Jewish programmers who ate chometz and worked on it, the code should be removed, and patched over either by observant Jews or by full blooded gentiles. Herouth___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On Apr 1, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Herouth Maoz wrote: Apple is a little less lucky, because rumour has it that Steve Jobs is partly Jewish. Oy. That's a persistant rumor, that both Steve (Woz) and Steve (Jobs) are Jewish. They are not. In fact due to his bilogical father being a Syrian muslim, he is considered an Arab-American. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com New word I coined 12/13/09, Sub-Wikipedia adj, describing knowledge or understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation. i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher-For Passover software
Thank you, Nadav, for bringing us these important news on this very important day of April 1st. Saba Moshe Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:40:21 +0300 From: Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il Subject: Kosher for Passover software To: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il Message-ID: 20100401044021.ga21...@fermat.math.technion.ac.il Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We're in the middle of Passover, and apparently observant Jews who are computer users are facing a new problem: a famous Rabbi has just declared [1] that during the week of Passover, observant Jews must only use software which has been certified Kosher-for-Passover. --snipped for breviry ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher-For Passover software
Wallak, LO KALATETI ;-) And yesterday my wife told me that today will be the lie day. hehe Good! Kfir On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Saba Moshe sabamo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you, Nadav, for bringing us these important news on this very important day of April 1st. Saba Moshe Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:40:21 +0300 From: Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il Subject: Kosher for Passover software To: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il Message-ID: 20100401044021.ga21...@fermat.math.technion.ac.il Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We're in the middle of Passover, and apparently observant Jews who are computer users are facing a new problem: a famous Rabbi has just declared [1] that during the week of Passover, observant Jews must only use software which has been certified Kosher-for-Passover. --snipped for breviry ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher-For Passover software
Thanks for your inputs on April fool and Pessah Kosher software. A serious issue that will need consideration on a year round basis by observant jews yet is the separation of milchik from fleishik software. The Jerusalem rabbinate is willing to offer his benevolent assistance so we don't go astray until a rabbi is appointed. In the meantime don't take your coding too lightly as you did in the past, be aware of future implications ...and may God be with you Israel On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Saba Moshe sabamo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you, Nadav, for bringing us these important news on this very important day of April 1st. Saba Moshe Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:40:21 +0300 From: Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il Subject: Kosher for Passover software To: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il Message-ID: 20100401044021.ga21...@fermat.math.technion.ac.il Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We're in the middle of Passover, and apparently observant Jews who are computer users are facing a new problem: a famous Rabbi has just declared [1] that during the week of Passover, observant Jews must only use software which has been certified Kosher-for-Passover. --snipped for breviry ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Kosher for Passover software
We're in the middle of Passover, and apparently observant Jews who are computer users are facing a new problem: a famous Rabbi has just declared [1] that during the week of Passover, observant Jews must only use software which has been certified Kosher-for-Passover. How can software possibly contain chometz? And who eats software anyway? :-) As it turns out, it's not just that you're not allowed to eat chometz on Passover - you're not allowed even to benefit from it. Observant jews already make sure that during Passover, their dogs eat kosher-for-passover dogfood, their toilet paper is free of chometz, and the milk they drink comes from cows that hadn't eaten chometz. The new decision is that using software which benefited from chometz during Passover is disallowed. And how can software possibly benefit from chometz? Easy - Napoleon once said that the army marches on its stomache. Likewise, programmers eat, and without food, there can be no software. If programmers ate chometz on Passover, and you use this software, you're benefiting from chometz on Passover, which is not allowed. Here in the Israeli software industry we're in a unique position to produce kosher-for-passover software, because most of our programmers eat only kosher-for-passover food during passover. If we only make sure not to accidentally mix-in pieces of chometz software into our kosher software. We should especially avoid free software - because much of it was written by gentiles who eat bread during Passover! Happy holiday! Nadav. -- Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Apr 1 2010, 17 Nisan 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |This box was intentionally left blank. http://nadav.harel.org.il | ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On 01/04/2010, at 00:40, Nadav Har'El wrote: We're in the middle of Passover, and apparently observant Jews who are computer users are facing a new problem: a famous Rabbi has just declared [1] that during the week of Passover, observant Jews must only use software which has been certified Kosher-for-Passover. So you should create the KPL, which, if modeled after the GPL, would prevent the mixing of Chametz-licensed software with it. Chametz software would have to be run only in user space, and couldn't be brought into the kitchen^Wkernel. --sambo ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On 04/01/10 07:40, Nadav Har'El wrote: We should especially avoid free software - because much of it was written by gentiles who eat bread during Passover! Following that logic, you should also avoid using any of M$ software, since it was mostly written by gentiles as well, and sure as hell, there was lot of bacon in the M$ headquarters cafeteria. פסח כשר ושמח (And happy April fools as well :) -- Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh http://www.total-knowledge.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kosher for Passover software
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 7:40 AM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: We're in the middle of Passover, and apparently observant Jews who are computer users are facing a new problem: a famous Rabbi has just declared [1] that during the week of Passover, observant Jews must only use software which has been certified Kosher-for-Passover. How can software possibly contain chometz? And who eats software anyway? :-) As it turns out, it's not just that you're not allowed to eat chometz on Passover - you're not allowed even to benefit from it. Observant jews already make sure that during Passover, their dogs eat kosher-for-passover dogfood, their toilet paper is free of chometz, and the milk they drink comes from cows that hadn't eaten chometz. The new decision is that using software which benefited from chometz during Passover is disallowed. And how can software possibly benefit from chometz? Easy - Napoleon once said that the army marches on its stomache. Likewise, programmers eat, and without food, there can be no software. If programmers ate chometz on Passover, and you use this software, you're benefiting from chometz on Passover, which is not allowed. Here in the Israeli software industry we're in a unique position to produce kosher-for-passover software, because most of our programmers eat only kosher-for-passover food during passover. If we only make sure not to accidentally mix-in pieces of chometz software into our kosher software. We should especially avoid free software - because much of it was written by gentiles who eat bread during Passover! These are live words of God himself. (דברי אלוהים חיים). I'm glad to announce that the recently announced Freecell Solver™ Enterprise Edition sports fully kosherness compliance, including Passover one, making it the world's first Passover kosher solver for Freeecell: http://fc-solve.blogspot.com/2010/03/01-april-2010-freecell-solver.html Namely, Freecell Solver Enterprises™ pays the most prominent Kashruth supervisors hefty sums of money to make sure its software is fully Kosher, for every copy included. This is reflected in the price of the premium version. Cheers and a happy Passover, -- Shlomi Fish Happy holiday! Nadav. -- Nadav Har'El | Thursday, Apr 1 2010, 17 Nisan 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |This box was intentionally left blank. http://nadav.harel.org.il | ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- -- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Electrical Engineering studies. In the Technion. Been there. Done that. Forgot a lot. Remember too much. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
