Re: Reverse ADSL?
On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Oleg Kobets wrote: No, there is what is called Synchronous ADSL. Both streams can go as far as 12Mbps (I think), but Bezeq using the Asynchronous one. i think you're refering to Synchronous DSL (SDSL). the 'A' in ADSL stands for Asynchronous. there are also other types of DSL protocols (VDSL, for example) which are not yet used in israel - some of these are probably in use abroad (SDSL is in use in the united states, as a replacement for frame-relay and fractional T1 technologies). -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reverse ADSL?
the A stands for asymmetric On Thursday 17 October 2002 13:35, guy keren wrote: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Oleg Kobets wrote: No, there is what is called Synchronous ADSL. Both streams can go as far as 12Mbps (I think), but Bezeq using the Asynchronous one. i think you're refering to Synchronous DSL (SDSL). the 'A' in ADSL stands for Asynchronous. there are also other types of DSL protocols (VDSL, for example) which are not yet used in israel - some of these are probably in use abroad (SDSL is in use in the united states, as a replacement for frame-relay and fractional T1 technologies). -- Barak Kaufman To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reverse ADSL?
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Barak Kaufman wrote: the A stands for asymmetric oops. ofcourse. stupid me :0 -- guy sorry, no world domination today. come back - one year = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reverse ADSL?
Hardly. That will surely hurt Bezeq main income - Frame relay and Sifranet. After all, whats stopping you to buy 2 ADSL subcriptions, 1 for upload and 1 for download thus ripping off Bezeq income? Thanks, Hetz On Tuesday 15 October 2002 16:30, Skliarouk Arie wrote: Hello, My friend asked whether it is possible to buy reverse ADSL: So that upstream bandwith will be 1MBit and downstream 96kbit or so. Will standart ADSL modem work? How much will it cost? --- Bye, | Fax: (972)-2-6796453 Arieh | Phone: (972)-6795364 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reverse ADSL?
this is technologically impossible ADSL is max 8Mbit download and 700somethin upload On Tuesday 15 October 2002 16:30, Skliarouk Arie wrote: Hello, My friend asked whether it is possible to buy reverse ADSL: So that upstream bandwith will be 1MBit and downstream 96kbit or so. Will standart ADSL modem work? How much will it cost? --- Bye, | Fax: (972)-2-6796453 Arieh | Phone: (972)-6795364 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Barak Kaufman To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reverse ADSL?
On Tue, Oct 15, 2002, Barak Kaufman wrote about Re: Reverse ADSL?: this is technologically impossible ADSL is max 8Mbit download and 700somethin upload This is just a detail of frequency allocation - they could have easily made it the other way around. I'm not sure, however, if it's possible to get modems that are wired the other way - I never tried. Bezek has an obvious incentive not to offer such a service (namely, their more expensive connectivity solutions), but since Bezek is a monopoly, it is not actually their decision to make. If you want to make waves about this, the ministry of communications is probably the correct address. ISPs traditionally have an opposite incentive, to allow you to reverse the direction of the asymmetry, because it will allow them to better fill their connections and to get better peering deals. Also, traditionally, servers in Israel usually catered to Israelis while clients use a lot of bandwidth to abroad, so it is cheaper for them to host a server than a client using the same bandwidth. I'm not sure what the ISPs' incentives are nowadays, however. Nowadays, everybody and their uncle runs some sort of P2P network; With the normal ADSL assymetry, your node (I'm assuming gnutella-like things, not freenet, for a moment) mostly uses the high bandwidth when you've specifically requested for something (when someone downloads from you, he or she will get the measly upstream bandwidth). They can usually assume that you don't sit 24/7 choosing stuff to download. However, if you have a server connection (ADSL assymetry reversed), the wide connection can get fully used by people from all over the world using your node without any of your participation. Worse, in Gnutella (and perhaps other similar networks), the network learns about such well-connected nodes and makes sure they get used to their full potential (I think this sort of leaching is a serious design issue with Gnutella). ISPs can get around this dilemma by giving you a virtually infinite burst bandwidth (e.g., like happens when your machine is hosted inside the ISP's server room), but somehow limiting the total average bandwidth per month, or charging extra for extra bandwidth. Some American ISPs already do that. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Oct 15 2002, 9 Heshvan 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cats aren't clean, they're just covered http://nadav.harel.org.il |with cat spit. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reverse ADSL?
the limitation is of the ADSL called technology not some local bezeq wiring and isp's make up for the asymmetry with hosting services, so they arent interested in you using their upload either. On Tuesday 15 October 2002 17:45, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Tue, Oct 15, 2002, Barak Kaufman wrote about Re: Reverse ADSL?: this is technologically impossible ADSL is max 8Mbit download and 700somethin upload This is just a detail of frequency allocation - they could have easily made it the other way around. I'm not sure, however, if it's possible to get modems that are wired the other way - I never tried. Bezek has an obvious incentive not to offer such a service (namely, their more expensive connectivity solutions), but since Bezek is a monopoly, it is not actually their decision to make. If you want to make waves about this, the ministry of communications is probably the correct address. ISPs traditionally have an opposite incentive, to allow you to reverse the direction of the asymmetry, because it will allow them to better fill their connections and to get better peering deals. Also, traditionally, servers in Israel usually catered to Israelis while clients use a lot of bandwidth to abroad, so it is cheaper for them to host a server than a client using the same bandwidth. I'm not sure what the ISPs' incentives are nowadays, however. Nowadays, everybody and their uncle runs some sort of P2P network; With the normal ADSL assymetry, your node (I'm assuming gnutella-like things, not freenet, for a moment) mostly uses the high bandwidth when you've specifically requested for something (when someone downloads from you, he or she will get the measly upstream bandwidth). They can usually assume that you don't sit 24/7 choosing stuff to download. However, if you have a server connection (ADSL assymetry reversed), the wide connection can get fully used by people from all over the world using your node without any of your participation. Worse, in Gnutella (and perhaps other similar networks), the network learns about such well-connected nodes and makes sure they get used to their full potential (I think this sort of leaching is a serious design issue with Gnutella). ISPs can get around this dilemma by giving you a virtually infinite burst bandwidth (e.g., like happens when your machine is hosted inside the ISP's server room), but somehow limiting the total average bandwidth per month, or charging extra for extra bandwidth. Some American ISPs already do that. -- Barak Kaufman To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reverse ADSL?
No, there is what is called Synchronous ADSL. Both streams can go as far as 12Mbps (I think), but Bezeq using the Asynchronous one. P.S. Forgive the spelling :-) - Original Message - From: Barak Kaufman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Skliarouk Arie [EMAIL PROTECTED]; iglu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:17 PM Subject: Re: Reverse ADSL? this is technologically impossible ADSL is max 8Mbit download and 700somethin upload On Tuesday 15 October 2002 16:30, Skliarouk Arie wrote: Hello, My friend asked whether it is possible to buy reverse ADSL: So that upstream bandwith will be 1MBit and downstream 96kbit or so. Will standart ADSL modem work? How much will it cost? --- Bye, | Fax: (972)-2-6796453 Arieh | Phone: (972)-6795364 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Barak Kaufman == To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
