Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2015-04-10 Thread Rob Landley
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Aaro Koskinen wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Apr 08, 2015 at 07:37:15PM -0500, Rob Landley wrote: >> Heck, the FSF's entire "It's GNU Linux, Dammit! Call it by its proper >> name: GNU/Linux/dammit" campaign is seriously irritating, and part of >> what I was doing with

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2015-04-10 Thread Aaro Koskinen
Hi, On Wed, Apr 08, 2015 at 07:37:15PM -0500, Rob Landley wrote: > Heck, the FSF's entire "It's GNU Linux, Dammit! Call it by its proper > name: GNU/Linux/dammit" campaign is seriously irritating, and part of > what I was doing with busybox was trying to create a linux development > system

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2015-04-10 Thread Aaro Koskinen
Hi, On Wed, Apr 08, 2015 at 07:37:15PM -0500, Rob Landley wrote: Heck, the FSF's entire It's GNU Linux, Dammit! Call it by its proper name: GNU/Linux/dammit campaign is seriously irritating, and part of what I was doing with busybox was trying to create a linux development system without a

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2015-04-10 Thread Rob Landley
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Aaro Koskinen aaro.koski...@iki.fi wrote: Hi, On Wed, Apr 08, 2015 at 07:37:15PM -0500, Rob Landley wrote: Heck, the FSF's entire It's GNU Linux, Dammit! Call it by its proper name: GNU/Linux/dammit campaign is seriously irritating, and part of what I was

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2015-04-09 Thread Denys Vlasenko
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Rob Landley wrote: > On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Denys Vlasenko > wrote: > But systemd has no clear goals, no specification, the single > implementation is a moving target... it's basically a microsoft > product. I think the actual goal is to control

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2015-04-09 Thread Denys Vlasenko
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Rob Landley r...@landley.net wrote: On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Denys Vlasenko vda.li...@googlemail.com wrote: But systemd has no clear goals, no specification, the single implementation is a moving target... it's basically a microsoft product. I think

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2015-04-08 Thread Rob Landley
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Denys Vlasenko wrote: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Christopher Barry > wrote: >> So why would very smart people who love and use Linux want to create or >> embrace such a creepy 'Master of All' daemon? Ostensibly, it's for the >> reasons they say, as I

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2015-04-08 Thread Denys Vlasenko
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Christopher Barry wrote: > So why would very smart people who love and use Linux want to create or > embrace such a creepy 'Master of All' daemon? Ostensibly, it's for the > reasons they say, as I mentioned at the top. But partially I think it's > from a lack of

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2015-04-08 Thread Denys Vlasenko
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Christopher Barry christopher.r.ba...@gmail.com wrote: So why would very smart people who love and use Linux want to create or embrace such a creepy 'Master of All' daemon? Ostensibly, it's for the reasons they say, as I mentioned at the top. But partially I

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2015-04-08 Thread Rob Landley
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Denys Vlasenko vda.li...@googlemail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Christopher Barry christopher.r.ba...@gmail.com wrote: So why would very smart people who love and use Linux want to create or embrace such a creepy 'Master of All' daemon?

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-06 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 07.09.2014 01:44, schrieb Lennart Sorensen: So why C++ then if you care about making the code easy to make safe when there are clearly even better options. Why not OCAML or Erlang or one of the other much more robust languages that don't contain all the dangers of C? I would choose

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-06 Thread Lennart Sorensen
On Sat, Sep 06, 2014 at 10:01:29PM +0200, Alexander Holler wrote: > I've brought up the critics about using C in a critical and very > security sensitive piece of software in userland, so I've decided a > bit more explanations might make sense. > > First, as you don't seem to have noticed or you

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-06 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 05.09.2014 08:31, schrieb Alexander Holler: Am 04.09.2014 21:18, schrieb Rob Landley: What's actually wrong with C++ at a language design level. Short version: OMG. It's better than C. In almost every aspect. Stop. Nothing else. Of course, if you want to write something like systemd in

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-06 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 05.09.2014 08:31, schrieb Alexander Holler: Am 04.09.2014 21:18, schrieb Rob Landley: What's actually wrong with C++ at a language design level. Short version: OMG. It's better than C. In almost every aspect. Stop. Nothing else. Of course, if you want to write something like systemd in

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-06 Thread Lennart Sorensen
On Sat, Sep 06, 2014 at 10:01:29PM +0200, Alexander Holler wrote: I've brought up the critics about using C in a critical and very security sensitive piece of software in userland, so I've decided a bit more explanations might make sense. First, as you don't seem to have noticed or you don't

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-06 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 07.09.2014 01:44, schrieb Lennart Sorensen: So why C++ then if you care about making the code easy to make safe when there are clearly even better options. Why not OCAML or Erlang or one of the other much more robust languages that don't contain all the dangers of C? I would choose

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-05 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 04.09.2014 21:18, schrieb Rob Landley: What's actually wrong with C++ at a language design level. Short version: OMG. It's better than C. In almost every aspect. Stop. Nothing else. Of course, if you want to write something like systemd in Python, Perl, Pascal, Modula or Erlang, feel

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-05 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 04.09.2014 21:18, schrieb Rob Landley: What's actually wrong with C++ at a language design level. Short version: OMG. It's better than C. In almost every aspect. Stop. Nothing else. Of course, if you want to write something like systemd in Python, Perl, Pascal, Modula or Erlang, feel

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Rob Landley
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Alexander Holler wrote: >>> Hmm, a sane and maintainable solution would use C++ with which people >>> don't >>> have to manually build lists or hashes for every structure like in the >>> kernel (generic programming done right). So you won't find much kernel >>>

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 04.09.2014 20:27, schrieb Rogelio Serrano: On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Alexander Holler wrote: Am 13.08.2014 11:00, schrieb Borislav Petkov: On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:27:56AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote: And the thing is; we're all very busy so we tend to take the 'easy' way out

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Rogelio Serrano
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Alexander Holler wrote: > Am 13.08.2014 11:00, schrieb Borislav Petkov: > >> On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:27:56AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote: >>> >>> And the thing is; we're all very busy so we tend to take the 'easy' >>> way out for things like this; but wholesale

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 04.09.2014 19:58, schrieb Austin S Hemmelgarn: On 2014-09-04 13:29, Alexander Holler wrote: Am 04.09.2014 16:36, schrieb Austin S Hemmelgarn: On 2014-09-04 06:16, Alexander Holler wrote: It's a myth that C++ ends up in bigger code than C. At least in my experience. Especially when the

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Austin S Hemmelgarn
On 2014-09-04 13:29, Alexander Holler wrote: > Am 04.09.2014 16:36, schrieb Austin S Hemmelgarn: >> On 2014-09-04 06:16, Alexander Holler wrote: >>> >>> It's a myth that C++ ends up in bigger code than C. At least in my >>> experience. Especially when the latest additions to C++ are in effect >>>

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 04.09.2014 16:36, schrieb Austin S Hemmelgarn: On 2014-09-04 06:16, Alexander Holler wrote: It's a myth that C++ ends up in bigger code than C. At least in my experience. Especially when the latest additions to C++ are in effect (like the move-semantics in C++11 I like quiet a lot and which

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Austin S Hemmelgarn
On 2014-09-04 06:16, Alexander Holler wrote: > > It's a myth that C++ ends up in bigger code than C. At least in my > experience. Especially when the latest additions to C++ are in effect > (like the move-semantics in C++11 I like quiet a lot and which you get > almost for free (by changing

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 04.09.2014 09:54, schrieb Peter Zijlstra: On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 08:15:45PM +0200, Alexander Holler wrote: Hmm, a sane and maintainable solution would use C++ with which people don't have to manually build lists or hashes for every structure like in the kernel (generic programming done

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 08:15:45PM +0200, Alexander Holler wrote: > > Hmm, a sane and maintainable solution would use C++ with which people don't > have to manually build lists or hashes for every structure like in the > kernel (generic programming done right). So you won't find much kernel >

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Rob Landley
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Alexander Holler hol...@ahsoftware.de wrote: Hmm, a sane and maintainable solution would use C++ with which people don't have to manually build lists or hashes for every structure like in the kernel (generic programming done right). So you won't find much kernel

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 08:15:45PM +0200, Alexander Holler wrote: Hmm, a sane and maintainable solution would use C++ with which people don't have to manually build lists or hashes for every structure like in the kernel (generic programming done right). So you won't find much kernel

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 04.09.2014 09:54, schrieb Peter Zijlstra: On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 08:15:45PM +0200, Alexander Holler wrote: Hmm, a sane and maintainable solution would use C++ with which people don't have to manually build lists or hashes for every structure like in the kernel (generic programming done

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Austin S Hemmelgarn
On 2014-09-04 06:16, Alexander Holler wrote: It's a myth that C++ ends up in bigger code than C. At least in my experience. Especially when the latest additions to C++ are in effect (like the move-semantics in C++11 I like quiet a lot and which you get almost for free (by changing nothing)

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 04.09.2014 16:36, schrieb Austin S Hemmelgarn: On 2014-09-04 06:16, Alexander Holler wrote: It's a myth that C++ ends up in bigger code than C. At least in my experience. Especially when the latest additions to C++ are in effect (like the move-semantics in C++11 I like quiet a lot and which

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Austin S Hemmelgarn
On 2014-09-04 13:29, Alexander Holler wrote: Am 04.09.2014 16:36, schrieb Austin S Hemmelgarn: On 2014-09-04 06:16, Alexander Holler wrote: It's a myth that C++ ends up in bigger code than C. At least in my experience. Especially when the latest additions to C++ are in effect (like the

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 04.09.2014 19:58, schrieb Austin S Hemmelgarn: On 2014-09-04 13:29, Alexander Holler wrote: Am 04.09.2014 16:36, schrieb Austin S Hemmelgarn: On 2014-09-04 06:16, Alexander Holler wrote: It's a myth that C++ ends up in bigger code than C. At least in my experience. Especially when the

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Rogelio Serrano
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Alexander Holler hol...@ahsoftware.de wrote: Am 13.08.2014 11:00, schrieb Borislav Petkov: On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:27:56AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote: And the thing is; we're all very busy so we tend to take the 'easy' way out for things like this; but

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-09-04 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 04.09.2014 20:27, schrieb Rogelio Serrano: On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Alexander Holler hol...@ahsoftware.de wrote: Am 13.08.2014 11:00, schrieb Borislav Petkov: On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:27:56AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote: And the thing is; we're all very busy so we tend to take

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-18 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 13.08.2014 11:00, schrieb Borislav Petkov: On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:27:56AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote: And the thing is; we're all very busy so we tend to take the 'easy' way out for things like this; but wholesale switching all my machines is indeed painful, and I'm not liking. Right,

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-18 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 13.08.2014 11:00, schrieb Borislav Petkov: On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:27:56AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote: And the thing is; we're all very busy so we tend to take the 'easy' way out for things like this; but wholesale switching all my machines is indeed painful, and I'm not liking. Right,

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-16 Thread Rob Landley
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:59 AM, Vlad Glagolev wrote: > Now what do we see? Complete degradation of Linux-like ecosystem. I'm Nah, lots of embedded guys value simplicity and a modular design where you can swap actually out parts. Check out the musl-libc.org mailing list for example. Those

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-16 Thread Rob Landley
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:59 AM, Vlad Glagolev stea...@tiberian.ru wrote: Now what do we see? Complete degradation of Linux-like ecosystem. I'm Nah, lots of embedded guys value simplicity and a modular design where you can swap actually out parts. Check out the musl-libc.org mailing list for

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-15 Thread Jaswinder Singh
Hello, On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 1:08 AM, Christopher Barry wrote: > > > What is intelligence? Not exactly the spook kind, but rather what is > the definition of intelligence in humans? This is pretty good: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence#Definitions > Do you want to see bigger

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-15 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 15 August 2014, Vlad Glagolev wrote: >This is a problem, which is silently ignored by those who HAS to defend >OSS' freedom. But politics (related to stuff they get a lot of money >from) of companies like RedHat isn't that white and fluffy for users, >because THEY started this chaos of

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-15 Thread Vlad Glagolev
This is a problem, which is silently ignored by those who HAS to defend OSS' freedom. But politics (related to stuff they get a lot of money from) of companies like RedHat isn't that white and fluffy for users, because THEY started this chaos of perverting the UNIX philosophy. I noticed that when

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-15 Thread Vlad Glagolev
This is a problem, which is silently ignored by those who HAS to defend OSS' freedom. But politics (related to stuff they get a lot of money from) of companies like RedHat isn't that white and fluffy for users, because THEY started this chaos of perverting the UNIX philosophy. I noticed that when

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-15 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 15 August 2014, Vlad Glagolev wrote: This is a problem, which is silently ignored by those who HAS to defend OSS' freedom. But politics (related to stuff they get a lot of money from) of companies like RedHat isn't that white and fluffy for users, because THEY started this chaos of

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-15 Thread Jaswinder Singh
Hello, On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 1:08 AM, Christopher Barry christopher.r.ba...@gmail.com wrote: What is intelligence? Not exactly the spook kind, but rather what is the definition of intelligence in humans? This is pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence#Definitions Do you

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Robert Hancock
On 12/08/14 01:38 PM, Christopher Barry wrote: What is intelligence? Not exactly the spook kind, but rather what is the definition of intelligence in humans? This is pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence#Definitions By most accounts, the self-appointed and arguably too

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread William Pitcock
Hello, On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 3:27 AM, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: >> Steven Rostedt writes: >> >> > Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). >> >> Made my day. >> >> > I'm just waiting for Linus to get

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Martin Steigerwald
Am Mittwoch, 13. August 2014, 10:57:01 schrieb Måns Rullgård: > Martin Steigerwald writes: > > Am Mittwoch, 13. August 2014, 10:27:56 schrieb Peter Zijlstra: > >> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: > >> > Steven Rostedt writes: > >> > > Nice rant, I sympathize with

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Martin Steigerwald
Am Mittwoch, 13. August 2014, 11:52:13 schrieb Peter Zijlstra: > On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:37:28AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > That all said: I believe that any feedback like this is best served on > > systemd-devel mailing list – maybe in an attempt to express it in a > > somewhat

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Måns Rullgård
Martin Steigerwald writes: > Am Mittwoch, 13. August 2014, 10:27:56 schrieb Peter Zijlstra: >> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: >> > Steven Rostedt writes: >> > > Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). >> > >> > Made my day. >> > >>

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:37:28AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > Also I think: > > martin@merkaba:~> ls -l /sbin/init > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 40648 Aug 3 21:01 /sbin/init > martin@merkaba:~> ls -l /bin/systemd > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Aug 6 13:41 /bin/systemd -> /lib/systemd/systemd

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:37:28AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > That all said: I believe that any feedback like this is best served on > systemd-devel mailing list – maybe in an attempt to express it in a somewhat > polite, yet also direct way. Instead of on LKML, debian-user, debian-devel

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Martin Steigerwald
Am Mittwoch, 13. August 2014, 10:27:56 schrieb Peter Zijlstra: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: > > Steven Rostedt writes: > > > Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). > > > > Made my day. > > > > > I'm just waiting for Linus to get

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Måns Rullgård
Peter Zijlstra writes: > On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:24:58AM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: >> Beware, even Gentoo will pull in systemd, if in a dormant state, unless >> you are very careful. > > Right so I've not tried yet (busy see), but I meant to remove all the > *Kit and other nonsense from the

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:24:58AM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: > Beware, even Gentoo will pull in systemd, if in a dormant state, unless > you are very careful. Right so I've not tried yet (busy see), but I meant to remove all the *Kit and other nonsense from the USE flags. I don't need GNOME so

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Måns Rullgård
Peter Zijlstra writes: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: >> Steven Rostedt writes: >> >> > Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). >> >> Made my day. >> >> > I'm just waiting for Linus to get pissed enough to write his own init >>

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Borislav Petkov
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:27:56AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > And the thing is; we're all very busy so we tend to take the 'easy' > way out for things like this; but wholesale switching all my machines > is indeed painful, and I'm not liking. Right, I think kernel people will gladly jump on a

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: > Steven Rostedt writes: > > > Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). > > Made my day. > > > I'm just waiting for Linus to get pissed enough to write his own init > > routine. Maybe he'll call it

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org writes: Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). Made my day. I'm just waiting for Linus to get pissed enough to write his own init routine. Maybe he'll call

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Borislav Petkov
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:27:56AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote: And the thing is; we're all very busy so we tend to take the 'easy' way out for things like this; but wholesale switching all my machines is indeed painful, and I'm not liking. Right, I think kernel people will gladly jump on a

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Måns Rullgård
Peter Zijlstra pet...@infradead.org writes: On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org writes: Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). Made my day. I'm just waiting for Linus to get pissed enough to

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:24:58AM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: Beware, even Gentoo will pull in systemd, if in a dormant state, unless you are very careful. Right so I've not tried yet (busy see), but I meant to remove all the *Kit and other nonsense from the USE flags. I don't need GNOME so

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Måns Rullgård
Peter Zijlstra pet...@infradead.org writes: On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:24:58AM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: Beware, even Gentoo will pull in systemd, if in a dormant state, unless you are very careful. Right so I've not tried yet (busy see), but I meant to remove all the *Kit and other

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Martin Steigerwald
Am Mittwoch, 13. August 2014, 10:27:56 schrieb Peter Zijlstra: On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org writes: Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). Made my day. I'm just waiting for Linus to

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:37:28AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote: That all said: I believe that any feedback like this is best served on systemd-devel mailing list – maybe in an attempt to express it in a somewhat polite, yet also direct way. Instead of on LKML, debian-user, debian-devel

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:37:28AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote: Also I think: martin@merkaba:~ ls -l /sbin/init -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 40648 Aug 3 21:01 /sbin/init martin@merkaba:~ ls -l /bin/systemd lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Aug 6 13:41 /bin/systemd - /lib/systemd/systemd

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Måns Rullgård
Martin Steigerwald mar...@lichtvoll.de writes: Am Mittwoch, 13. August 2014, 10:27:56 schrieb Peter Zijlstra: On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org writes: Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+).

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Martin Steigerwald
Am Mittwoch, 13. August 2014, 11:52:13 schrieb Peter Zijlstra: On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:37:28AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote: That all said: I believe that any feedback like this is best served on systemd-devel mailing list – maybe in an attempt to express it in a somewhat polite, yet

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Martin Steigerwald
Am Mittwoch, 13. August 2014, 10:57:01 schrieb Måns Rullgård: Martin Steigerwald mar...@lichtvoll.de writes: Am Mittwoch, 13. August 2014, 10:27:56 schrieb Peter Zijlstra: On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org writes: Nice

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread William Pitcock
Hello, On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 3:27 AM, Peter Zijlstra pet...@infradead.org wrote: On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:07:05PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org writes: Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). Made my day. I'm just

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-13 Thread Robert Hancock
On 12/08/14 01:38 PM, Christopher Barry wrote: What is intelligence? Not exactly the spook kind, but rather what is the definition of intelligence in humans? This is pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence#Definitions By most accounts, the self-appointed and arguably too

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-12 Thread Måns Rullgård
Steven Rostedt writes: > Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). Made my day. > I'm just waiting for Linus to get pissed enough to write his own init > routine. Maybe he'll call it "Boot Init Through Computer Hardware". The trouble is that most of the

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-12 Thread Borislav Petkov
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 04:21:29PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). +1. Nicely written, Christopher. > I'm just waiting for Linus to get pissed enough to write his own init > routine. Maybe he'll call it "Boot Init Through

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-12 Thread Steven Rostedt
Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). I'm just waiting for Linus to get pissed enough to write his own init routine. Maybe he'll call it "Boot Init Through Computer Hardware". Of course he'll have to make that an acronym. -- Steve -- To unsubscribe from this

OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-12 Thread Christopher Barry
What is intelligence? Not exactly the spook kind, but rather what is the definition of intelligence in humans? This is pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence#Definitions By most accounts, the self-appointed and arguably too influential creators and thinkers of the day around the

OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-12 Thread Christopher Barry
What is intelligence? Not exactly the spook kind, but rather what is the definition of intelligence in humans? This is pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence#Definitions By most accounts, the self-appointed and arguably too influential creators and thinkers of the day around the

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-12 Thread Steven Rostedt
Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). I'm just waiting for Linus to get pissed enough to write his own init routine. Maybe he'll call it Boot Init Through Computer Hardware. Of course he'll have to make that an acronym. -- Steve -- To unsubscribe from this

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-12 Thread Borislav Petkov
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 04:21:29PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote: Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). +1. Nicely written, Christopher. I'm just waiting for Linus to get pissed enough to write his own init routine. Maybe he'll call it Boot Init Through

Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

2014-08-12 Thread Måns Rullgård
Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org writes: Nice rant, I sympathize with you (just complaining about this on G+). Made my day. I'm just waiting for Linus to get pissed enough to write his own init routine. Maybe he'll call it Boot Init Through Computer Hardware. The trouble is that most of