Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
(I mistakenly sent this with 'r' previously. Please reply to this copy.) Alan Cox : > The wording IMHO just needs tightening up - and that's a useful > discussion that ought to he bad. I tihnk everyone understands the *inent* > of such wording - don't go around doxing people, or posting their

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
(I mistakenly sent this with 'r' previously. Please reply to this copy.) Alan Cox : > The wording IMHO just needs tightening up - and that's a useful > discussion that ought to he bad. I tihnk everyone understands the *inent* > of such wording - don't go around doxing people, or posting their

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Alan Cox : > The wording IMHO just needs tightening up - and that's a useful > discussion that ought to he bad. I tihnk everyone understands the *inent* > of such wording - don't go around doxing people, or posting their home > address on facebook and calling for people to attend with pitchforks.

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-29 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Alan Cox : > The wording IMHO just needs tightening up - and that's a useful > discussion that ought to he bad. I tihnk everyone understands the *inent* > of such wording - don't go around doxing people, or posting their home > address on facebook and calling for people to attend with pitchforks.

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-28 Thread jonsm...@gmail.com
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 11:56 AM Alan Cox wrote: > > > Well, then I have to repeat myself: Signed-off source code (in form of > > patches) in a well-known programming language for a (nowadays) > > well-known GPLv2 licensed project mailed on "everyone can subscribe" > > mailinglists, (thus) to be

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-28 Thread jonsm...@gmail.com
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 11:56 AM Alan Cox wrote: > > > Well, then I have to repeat myself: Signed-off source code (in form of > > patches) in a well-known programming language for a (nowadays) > > well-known GPLv2 licensed project mailed on "everyone can subscribe" > > mailinglists, (thus) to be

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-28 Thread \0xDynamite
>> You did it again. You changed words. I said intended for the public, >> and you ended your sentence with "intended to be published". >> >> Like it or not, both the law and English grammar have ambiguities. >> People put up with them because they share a common intuition (in a >> lot of cases)

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-28 Thread \0xDynamite
>> You did it again. You changed words. I said intended for the public, >> and you ended your sentence with "intended to be published". >> >> Like it or not, both the law and English grammar have ambiguities. >> People put up with them because they share a common intuition (in a >> lot of cases)

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-28 Thread Alan Cox
> Well, then I have to repeat myself: Signed-off source code (in form of > patches) in a well-known programming language for a (nowadays) > well-known GPLv2 licensed project mailed on "everyone can subscribe" > mailinglists, (thus) to be found in several $SEARCH_ENGINE-indexed > mailinglist

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-28 Thread Alan Cox
> Well, then I have to repeat myself: Signed-off source code (in form of > patches) in a well-known programming language for a (nowadays) > well-known GPLv2 licensed project mailed on "everyone can subscribe" > mailinglists, (thus) to be found in several $SEARCH_ENGINE-indexed > mailinglist

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-26 Thread Joey Pabalinas
On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 02:34:07PM -0500, \0xDynamite wrote: > >> You confuse the issue. My definition included "intended for the > >> public". But it isn't clear that open source code is intended for the > >> public -- it is intended for those who code or wish to. > > > Well, then I have to

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-26 Thread Joey Pabalinas
On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 02:34:07PM -0500, \0xDynamite wrote: > >> You confuse the issue. My definition included "intended for the > >> public". But it isn't clear that open source code is intended for the > >> public -- it is intended for those who code or wish to. > > > Well, then I have to

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-26 Thread \0xDynamite
So, is code a *published* item? Most of the public can't read it. >>> >>> I cannot read (or understand) neither Russian nor Chinese nor almost any >>> natural (let alone dead) languages of the world. I'm pretty sure that >>> I'm not the only one;-) >>> Does that make Russian literature

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-26 Thread \0xDynamite
So, is code a *published* item? Most of the public can't read it. >>> >>> I cannot read (or understand) neither Russian nor Chinese nor almost any >>> natural (let alone dead) languages of the world. I'm pretty sure that >>> I'm not the only one;-) >>> Does that make Russian literature

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-26 Thread Christoph Conrads
Hi, > > The CoC is a political document: > > https://web.archive.org/web/20180924234027/https://twitter.com/coralineada/status/1041465346656530432 > ... > > Here is the author's post-meritocracy manifesto: > > https://postmeritocracy.org/ > > There have been those who have characterized the

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-26 Thread Christoph Conrads
Hi, > > The CoC is a political document: > > https://web.archive.org/web/20180924234027/https://twitter.com/coralineada/status/1041465346656530432 > ... > > Here is the author's post-meritocracy manifesto: > > https://postmeritocracy.org/ > > There have been those who have characterized the

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-26 Thread Martin Steigerwald
Pavel Machek - 25.09.18, 15:28: > > > > > Your above argument that the Code of Conduct is problematic > > > > > because of who wrote it seems to contradict your statement > > > > > that we shall judge by code (or text) alone. > > > > > > > > I think there are important differences between code to

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-26 Thread Martin Steigerwald
Pavel Machek - 25.09.18, 15:28: > > > > > Your above argument that the Code of Conduct is problematic > > > > > because of who wrote it seems to contradict your statement > > > > > that we shall judge by code (or text) alone. > > > > > > > > I think there are important differences between code to

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On 25/09/2018 19:14, \0xDynamite wrote: [...] >>> So, is code a *published* item? Most of the public can't read it. >> >> I cannot read (or understand) neither Russian nor Chinese nor almost any >> natural (let alone dead) languages of the world. I'm pretty sure that >> I'm not the only one;-) >>

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On 25/09/2018 19:14, \0xDynamite wrote: [...] >>> So, is code a *published* item? Most of the public can't read it. >> >> I cannot read (or understand) neither Russian nor Chinese nor almost any >> natural (let alone dead) languages of the world. I'm pretty sure that >> I'm not the only one;-) >>

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Michael Woods
On 22/09/18 00:15, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently > suggest that before people think about responding to a particular > e-mail, that they do a quick check using "git log --author=xy...@example.com" > then decide how much someone

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Michael Woods
On 22/09/18 00:15, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently > suggest that before people think about responding to a particular > e-mail, that they do a quick check using "git log --author=xy...@example.com" > then decide how much someone

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Theodore Y. Ts'o : > There have been those who have characterized the GPL as being more > than just a license, but also a political statement. And yet, many > projects, include Linus, use the GPL without necessarily subscribing > to all of Richard Stallman's positions, political or otherwise.

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Theodore Y. Ts'o : > There have been those who have characterized the GPL as being more > than just a license, but also a political statement. And yet, many > projects, include Linus, use the GPL without necessarily subscribing > to all of Richard Stallman's positions, political or otherwise.

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread \0xDynamite
>> And there is no level on which this is anything but bad. > > In this context, I want to mention the tweet by the CoC author from > August 29, 2018 [1]: > >> All software is political. > > This tweet was posted as a response to your article "Non-discrimination > is a core value of open source"

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread \0xDynamite
>> And there is no level on which this is anything but bad. > > In this context, I want to mention the tweet by the CoC author from > August 29, 2018 [1]: > >> All software is political. > > This tweet was posted as a response to your article "Non-discrimination > is a core value of open source"

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread \0xDynamite
>> The notion of being "published" means at least these two things: 1) > > Where exactly - URL? - is that notion defined? I'm giving you the most sensible definition, from the point of view of a Doctor of Law. I have not seen a real definition, so I'm giving you one. > Especially the intention

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread \0xDynamite
>> The notion of being "published" means at least these two things: 1) > > Where exactly - URL? - is that notion defined? I'm giving you the most sensible definition, from the point of view of a Doctor of Law. I have not seen a real definition, so I'm giving you one. > Especially the intention

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Theodore Y. Ts'o
On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 02:36:45PM +0200, Christoph Conrads wrote: > The CoC is a political document: > https://web.archive.org/web/20180924234027/https://twitter.com/coralineada/status/1041465346656530432 ... > Here is the author's post-meritocracy manifesto: > https://postmeritocracy.org/

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Theodore Y. Ts'o
On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 02:36:45PM +0200, Christoph Conrads wrote: > The CoC is a political document: > https://web.archive.org/web/20180924234027/https://twitter.com/coralineada/status/1041465346656530432 ... > Here is the author's post-meritocracy manifesto: > https://postmeritocracy.org/

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Christoph Conrads
Dear Eric, > > The CoC is a political document: > > https://web.archive.org/web/20180924234027/https://twitter.com/coralineada/status/1041465346656530432 > > And there is no level on which this is anything but bad. > > The kernel devs are a very large, very diverse, multi-national,

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Christoph Conrads
Dear Eric, > > The CoC is a political document: > > https://web.archive.org/web/20180924234027/https://twitter.com/coralineada/status/1041465346656530432 > > And there is no level on which this is anything but bad. > > The kernel devs are a very large, very diverse, multi-national,

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! > > > > Your above argument that the Code of Conduct is problematic because of > > > > who wrote it seems to contradict your statement that we shall judge by > > > > code (or text) alone. > > > I think there are important differences between code to be run by CPUs > > >  and a Code to be run

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! > > > > Your above argument that the Code of Conduct is problematic because of > > > > who wrote it seems to contradict your statement that we shall judge by > > > > code (or text) alone. > > > I think there are important differences between code to be run by CPUs > > >  and a Code to be run

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Christoph Conrads : > The CoC is a political document: > https://web.archive.org/web/20180924234027/https://twitter.com/coralineada/status/1041465346656530432 And there is no level on which this is anything but bad. The kernel devs are a very large, very diverse, multi-national, multi-cultural

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Christoph Conrads : > The CoC is a political document: > https://web.archive.org/web/20180924234027/https://twitter.com/coralineada/status/1041465346656530432 And there is no level on which this is anything but bad. The kernel devs are a very large, very diverse, multi-national, multi-cultural

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Christoph Conrads
Dear Pavel, > > > Your above argument that the Code of Conduct is problematic because of > > > who wrote it seems to contradict your statement that we shall judge by > > > code (or text) alone. > > I think there are important differences between code to be run by CPUs > >  and a Code to be run by

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Christoph Conrads
Dear Pavel, > > > Your above argument that the Code of Conduct is problematic because of > > > who wrote it seems to contradict your statement that we shall judge by > > > code (or text) alone. > > I think there are important differences between code to be run by CPUs > >  and a Code to be run by

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! > > I can > > see how that kind of environment _could_ be implemented with the same > > code of conduct as a base, but [...] I know I > > would fight strongly against that. > It is definitely reassuring to hear you say that. > > > There is a list in the first paragraph, but the preceding

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-25 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! > > I can > > see how that kind of environment _could_ be implemented with the same > > code of conduct as a base, but [...] I know I > > would fight strongly against that. > It is definitely reassuring to hear you say that. > > > There is a list in the first paragraph, but the preceding

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread gratuitouslicensesarerevocable
In your employment contract there exists a provision where you sign over your rights to any and all intellectual property, patents, copyrights developed during your term of employment. Said clause makes it clear that what you've furnished is a work-for-hire and owned by the company or the

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread gratuitouslicensesarerevocable
In your employment contract there exists a provision where you sign over your rights to any and all intellectual property, patents, copyrights developed during your term of employment. Said clause makes it clear that what you've furnished is a work-for-hire and owned by the company or the

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On 24/09/2018 20:59, \0xDynamite wrote: >>> * Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or >>> electronic >>> address, without explicit permission >> >> I need an (explicit) permission to "publish" an already published email >> address which is already world-wide known because it

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On 24/09/2018 20:59, \0xDynamite wrote: >>> * Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or >>> electronic >>> address, without explicit permission >> >> I need an (explicit) permission to "publish" an already published email >> address which is already world-wide known because it

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread \0xDynamite
>> * Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or >> electronic >> address, without explicit permission > > I need an (explicit) permission to "publish" an already published email > address which is already world-wide known because it can be found by the > simplest and worst

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread \0xDynamite
>> * Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or >> electronic >> address, without explicit permission > > I need an (explicit) permission to "publish" an already published email > address which is already world-wide known because it can be found by the > simplest and worst

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread jonsm...@gmail.com
On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 1:43 PM Max Filippov wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 5:24 PM, jonsm...@gmail.com > wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 8:05 PM Joey Pabalinas > > wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:31:05PM -0400, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: > >>> How do you reconcile working on a

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread jonsm...@gmail.com
On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 1:43 PM Max Filippov wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 5:24 PM, jonsm...@gmail.com > wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 8:05 PM Joey Pabalinas > > wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:31:05PM -0400, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: > >>> How do you reconcile working on a

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread Max Filippov
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 5:24 PM, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 8:05 PM Joey Pabalinas > wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:31:05PM -0400, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: >>> How do you reconcile working on a public project while keeping email >>> address secret? >> >> This is

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread Max Filippov
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 5:24 PM, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 8:05 PM Joey Pabalinas > wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:31:05PM -0400, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: >>> How do you reconcile working on a public project while keeping email >>> address secret? >> >> This is

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread unconditionedwitness
better to bury a corpse than to let it rot in the air. This is legally nonsense. The only way I can revoke someone's rights to It is not nonsense. Gratuitous licenses are and always have been revocable at the will of the grantor. (Yes, I am a lawyer) Property law 101. "But this is

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-24 Thread unconditionedwitness
better to bury a corpse than to let it rot in the air. This is legally nonsense. The only way I can revoke someone's rights to It is not nonsense. Gratuitous licenses are and always have been revocable at the will of the grantor. (Yes, I am a lawyer) Property law 101. "But this is

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-23 Thread \0xDynamite
> For example > >> >* Showing empathy towards other community members >> >> Your pussy hurts? Maybe you should have just accepted that your a boy! >> >> I think Linus is perfectly fine in conduct. I mean, this bullshit >> pressure comes from corporations and other wierd places (all >>

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-23 Thread \0xDynamite
> For example > >> >* Showing empathy towards other community members >> >> Your pussy hurts? Maybe you should have just accepted that your a boy! >> >> I think Linus is perfectly fine in conduct. I mean, this bullshit >> pressure comes from corporations and other wierd places (all >>

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-23 Thread \0xDynamite
>> Contributors can, at any time, rescind the license grant regarding their >> property via written notice to those whom they are rescinding the grant >> from (regarding their property (code)). > > I know others have already said it, but: > This is legally nonsense. The only way I can revoke

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-23 Thread \0xDynamite
>> Contributors can, at any time, rescind the license grant regarding their >> property via written notice to those whom they are rescinding the grant >> from (regarding their property (code)). > > I know others have already said it, but: > This is legally nonsense. The only way I can revoke

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-23 Thread Christoph Conrads
Dear Edward, > I know others have already said it, but: > This is legally nonsense. The only way I can revoke someone's rights to > my code under the GPL is if they violate the terms of the GPL. this aspect of FOSS licenses has -- to the best of my knowledge -- never been tested in court.

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-23 Thread Christoph Conrads
Dear Edward, > I know others have already said it, but: > This is legally nonsense. The only way I can revoke someone's rights to > my code under the GPL is if they violate the terms of the GPL. this aspect of FOSS licenses has -- to the best of my knowledge -- never been tested in court.

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread jonsm...@gmail.com
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 8:05 PM Joey Pabalinas wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:31:05PM -0400, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 7:17 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > > > > > > People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently > > > suggest that before

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread jonsm...@gmail.com
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 8:05 PM Joey Pabalinas wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:31:05PM -0400, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 7:17 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > > > > > > People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently > > > suggest that before

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Joey Pabalinas
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:31:05PM -0400, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 7:17 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > > > > People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently > > suggest that before people think about responding to a particular > > e-mail, that they

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Joey Pabalinas
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:31:05PM -0400, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 7:17 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > > > > People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently > > suggest that before people think about responding to a particular > > e-mail, that they

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On 22/09/2018 01:31, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: [...] > How does this part apply to email addresses used to commit code? > > * Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or electronic > address, without explicit permission I need an (explicit) permission to "publish" an already

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On 22/09/2018 01:31, jonsm...@gmail.com wrote: [...] > How does this part apply to email addresses used to commit code? > > * Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or electronic > address, without explicit permission I need an (explicit) permission to "publish" an already

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread jonsm...@gmail.com
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 7:17 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > > People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently > suggest that before people think about responding to a particular > e-mail, that they do a quick check using "git log --author=xy...@example.com" > then decide how

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread jonsm...@gmail.com
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 7:17 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > > People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently > suggest that before people think about responding to a particular > e-mail, that they do a quick check using "git log --author=xy...@example.com" > then decide how

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Joey Pabalinas
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:15:45PM -0400, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently > suggest that before people think about responding to a particular > e-mail, that they do a quick check using "git log --author=xy...@example.com" > then

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Joey Pabalinas
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:15:45PM -0400, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently > suggest that before people think about responding to a particular > e-mail, that they do a quick check using "git log --author=xy...@example.com" > then

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Theodore Y. Ts'o
People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently suggest that before people think about responding to a particular e-mail, that they do a quick check using "git log --author=xy...@example.com" then decide how much someone appears to be a member of the community before

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Theodore Y. Ts'o
People can decide who they want to respond to, but I'm going to gently suggest that before people think about responding to a particular e-mail, that they do a quick check using "git log --author=xy...@example.com" then decide how much someone appears to be a member of the community before

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread \0xDynamite
Ahem... Of course, the linux community, like ALL communities, needs more political correctness, because we wouldn't want others to feel left out merely because they are wrong. FALSE || TRUE = more participation and diversity! >Our Pledge >In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread \0xDynamite
Ahem... Of course, the linux community, like ALL communities, needs more political correctness, because we wouldn't want others to feel left out merely because they are wrong. FALSE || TRUE = more participation and diversity! >Our Pledge >In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Frank Ch. Eigler
Rik van Riel writes: > [...] The goal of the code of conduct is to make the community > welcoming, and to help people with being a part of the Linux > community. [...] That may well be the goal. But the proper way to evaluate policy is not the laudability of its goals but its forseeable

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Frank Ch. Eigler
Rik van Riel writes: > [...] The goal of the code of conduct is to make the community > welcoming, and to help people with being a part of the Linux > community. [...] That may well be the goal. But the proper way to evaluate policy is not the laudability of its goals but its forseeable

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Christoph Conrads
Hallo Martin, > What I see here is that a lot of people who are not even contributing to > the Linux kernel in a major way apparently want to make their opinion > about Code of Conduct heard loudly. > > I ask myself: What the point of it? So far, the Contributor Covenant CoC always left a

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Christoph Conrads
Hallo Martin, > What I see here is that a lot of people who are not even contributing to > the Linux kernel in a major way apparently want to make their opinion > about Code of Conduct heard loudly. > > I ask myself: What the point of it? So far, the Contributor Covenant CoC always left a

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Martin Steigerwald
Hello Christoph. Christoph Conrads - 20.09.18, 23:18: > The CoC is extremely ambiguously written for an enforceable document, > any behavior disliked by the maintainers can be punished, and the > level of naivete of the maintainers defending it is suprising for > such a far reaching document.

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-21 Thread Martin Steigerwald
Hello Christoph. Christoph Conrads - 20.09.18, 23:18: > The CoC is extremely ambiguously written for an enforceable document, > any behavior disliked by the maintainers can be punished, and the > level of naivete of the maintainers defending it is suprising for > such a far reaching document.

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread unixing
On Friday, September 21, 2018 1:48 AM, Rik van Riel wrote: > On Thu, 2018-09-20 at 03:14 +0100, Edward Cree wrote: > > > I think there are important differences between code to be run by > > CPUs > > and a Code to be run by humans. And when the author goes on a > > victory > > lap on Twitter and

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread unixing
On Friday, September 21, 2018 1:48 AM, Rik van Riel wrote: > On Thu, 2018-09-20 at 03:14 +0100, Edward Cree wrote: > > > I think there are important differences between code to be run by > > CPUs > > and a Code to be run by humans. And when the author goes on a > > victory > > lap on Twitter and

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread Rik van Riel
On Thu, 2018-09-20 at 03:14 +0100, Edward Cree wrote: > I think there are important differences between code to be run by > CPUs > and a Code to be run by humans. And when the author goes on a > victory > lap on Twitter and declares the Code to be "a political document", > is > it any

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread Rik van Riel
On Thu, 2018-09-20 at 03:14 +0100, Edward Cree wrote: > I think there are important differences between code to be run by > CPUs > and a Code to be run by humans. And when the author goes on a > victory > lap on Twitter and declares the Code to be "a political document", > is > it any

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread Edward Cree
On 20/09/18 10:27, unconditionedwitn...@redchan.it wrote: > Contributors can, at any time, rescind the license grant regarding their > property via written notice to those whom they are rescinding the grant > from (regarding their property (code)). I know others have already said it, but: This is

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread Edward Cree
On 20/09/18 10:27, unconditionedwitn...@redchan.it wrote: > Contributors can, at any time, rescind the license grant regarding their > property via written notice to those whom they are rescinding the grant > from (regarding their property (code)). I know others have already said it, but: This is

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread Christoph Conrads
The CoC is extremely ambiguously written for an enforceable document, any behavior disliked by the maintainers can be punished, and the level of naivete of the maintainers defending it is suprising for such a far reaching document. > In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment,

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread Christoph Conrads
The CoC is extremely ambiguously written for an enforceable document, any behavior disliked by the maintainers can be punished, and the level of naivete of the maintainers defending it is suprising for such a far reaching document. > In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment,

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread Lukas Wunner
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 12:31:26PM +0200, Andreas Bosch wrote: > Am 18.09.18 um 22:16 schrieb Lukas Wunner: > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 02:24:30PM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > >> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 01:48:52PM +0200, Lukas Wunner wrote: > >>> On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 12:22:43PM -0700,

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread Lukas Wunner
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 12:31:26PM +0200, Andreas Bosch wrote: > Am 18.09.18 um 22:16 schrieb Lukas Wunner: > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 02:24:30PM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > >> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 01:48:52PM +0200, Lukas Wunner wrote: > >>> On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 12:22:43PM -0700,

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread unconditionedwitness
Code of Conduct: Those Ejected should rescind their license grant. The grant is not supported by consideration. It dispenses only largess, and asks for no recompense. It is a bare license. Thus it can be revoked by the grantor at any time. His act of grace bestowed, and his act of propriety can

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread unconditionedwitness
Code of Conduct: Those Ejected should rescind their license grant. The grant is not supported by consideration. It dispenses only largess, and asks for no recompense. It is a bare license. Thus it can be revoked by the grantor at any time. His act of grace bestowed, and his act of propriety can

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread unconditionedwitness
Regarding those who are ejected from the Linux Kernel Community after this CoC: Contributors can, at any time, rescind the license grant regarding their property via written notice to those whom they are rescinding the grant from (regarding their property (code)). The GPL version 2 lacks a

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-20 Thread unconditionedwitness
Regarding those who are ejected from the Linux Kernel Community after this CoC: Contributors can, at any time, rescind the license grant regarding their property via written notice to those whom they are rescinding the grant from (regarding their property (code)). The GPL version 2 lacks a

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-19 Thread Willy Tarreau
Hi Olof, I expected not to participate to this boring discussion, but I think I need to make a point below : On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 02:16:40AM +0100, Olof Johansson wrote: > Another common counter argument is that the code of conduct is > imposing what's appropriate thoughts and opinions on

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-19 Thread Willy Tarreau
Hi Olof, I expected not to participate to this boring discussion, but I think I need to make a point below : On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 02:16:40AM +0100, Olof Johansson wrote: > Another common counter argument is that the code of conduct is > imposing what's appropriate thoughts and opinions on

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-19 Thread Theodore Y. Ts'o
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 02:16:40AM +0100, Olof Johansson wrote: > > But there are too many ways this can go wrong, maybe not now or next > > week but in five or ten years, when maybe a different kind of person > > is on the TAB, or maybe external pressure is brought to bear on TAB > > members.

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-19 Thread Theodore Y. Ts'o
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 02:16:40AM +0100, Olof Johansson wrote: > > But there are too many ways this can go wrong, maybe not now or next > > week but in five or ten years, when maybe a different kind of person > > is on the TAB, or maybe external pressure is brought to bear on TAB > > members.

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-19 Thread Edward Cree
On 20/09/18 02:16, Olof Johansson wrote: > I would be very surprised if any of my peers on the TAB ever had those > intentions, and I know I would not have them myself. In case my references to individualsmade it unclear: I have no reason to  suspect _any_ of the present TAB members would;

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-19 Thread Edward Cree
On 20/09/18 02:16, Olof Johansson wrote: > I would be very surprised if any of my peers on the TAB ever had those > intentions, and I know I would not have them myself. In case my references to individualsmade it unclear: I have no reason to  suspect _any_ of the present TAB members would;

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-19 Thread Olof Johansson
Hi, I'd like to clarify that I am replying here in my personal capacity, and not on behalf of the TAB or anyone else. On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 12:35 AM, Edward Cree wrote: > On 19/09/18 15:18, Jonathan Corbet wrote: >> I'd like to address just this part, speaking only for myself. >> The LF is

Re: Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

2018-09-19 Thread Olof Johansson
Hi, I'd like to clarify that I am replying here in my personal capacity, and not on behalf of the TAB or anyone else. On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 12:35 AM, Edward Cree wrote: > On 19/09/18 15:18, Jonathan Corbet wrote: >> I'd like to address just this part, speaking only for myself. >> The LF is

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