RE: OT Coffee (was Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-03 Thread David Schwartz
> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:01:56 PST, David Schwartz said: > > There is simply no way you can argue that McDonald's failed to > > warn people > > about the risks. The cup says "hot" on it, > Actually, the "HOT" on the cup and the sticker in the drive-through that > says "Warning: Coffee is served

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-03 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 16:23 -0300, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > Bernd Petrovitsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [...] > > I don't know about others but I wouldn't write an offer with a fixed > > price for "look into assembler dumps, reverse engineer it and find an > > infringement on a list of given

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-03 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 16:23 -0300, Horst H. von Brand wrote: Bernd Petrovitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I don't know about others but I wouldn't write an offer with a fixed price for look into assembler dumps, reverse engineer it and find an infringement on a list of given patents so

RE: OT Coffee (was Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-03 Thread David Schwartz
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:01:56 PST, David Schwartz said: There is simply no way you can argue that McDonald's failed to warn people about the risks. The cup says hot on it, Actually, the HOT on the cup and the sticker in the drive-through that says Warning: Coffee is served very hot were

Re: OT Coffee (was Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:01:56 PST, David Schwartz said: > There is simply no way you can argue that McDonald's failed to warn people > about the risks. The cup says "hot" on it, Actually, the "HOT" on the cup and the sticker in the drive-through that says "Warning: Coffee is served very hot" were

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:14:54 PST, David Schwartz said: > > > The recommendet _serving_ temperature for coffe is 55 °C or below. > > Nonsense! 55C (100F) is ludicrously low for coffee. > > 70C (125F) is the *minimum* recommended serving temperature. 165-190F is the 100F == 37C 125F == 52C 55C

RE: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Schwartz
> On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 12:14 -0800, David Schwartz wrote: > > > The recommendet _serving_ temperature for coffe is 55 °C or below. > > > > Nonsense! 55C (100F) is ludicrously low for coffee. > > > > 70C (125F) is the *minimum* recommended serving temperature. > 165-190F is the > > preferred

RE: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Brian Beattie
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 12:14 -0800, David Schwartz wrote: > > The recommendet _serving_ temperature for coffe is 55 °C or below. > > Nonsense! 55C (100F) is ludicrously low for coffee. > > 70C (125F) is the *minimum* recommended serving temperature. 165-190F is the > preferred serving range. I

RE: OT Coffee (was Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Schwartz
> How many of them stuffed the cup between their legs though? I think it > she would have sqeezed the cup too hard and burned her hand and sued > McDonalds for that people would be more understainding... How would what she did have any bearing on the key issue, which is whether or not McDonald's

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Randy Dunlap
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 08:11:21 +1100 Neil Brown wrote: > Of course if people would just put milk in their coffee, we would have > this problem :-) > > [We now return you to our regular program of filesystem corruption > and flame wars]. Yes, PLEEZE! --- ~Randy - To unsubscribe from this list:

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Neil Brown
On Tuesday January 2, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: > > > > > I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and "justice" > > > system in the US is completely and totally insane, and

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Weinehall
On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 06:13:46PM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote: > > On Jan 2 2007 16:15, David Weinehall wrote: > >On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > >> On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: > >> > >> 1) mcdonald's was not merely serving their coffee "hot," but

Re: OT Coffee (was Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Dmitry Torokhov
On 1/2/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:30:17 +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven said: > > > 2) there had, for a decade prior, been some *700* cases where people > > > had burned themselves with mcdonald's coffee, so it's not as if > > > mcdonald's was unaware of

RE: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Schwartz
> The recommendet _serving_ temperature for coffe is 55 °C or below. Nonsense! 55C (100F) is ludicrously low for coffee. 70C (125F) is the *minimum* recommended serving temperature. 165-190F is the preferred serving range. I can cite source after source for this. For example:

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Weinehall
On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 07:44:24PM +0100, Bodo Eggert wrote: > David Weinehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > >> 1) mcdonald's was not merely serving their coffee "hot," but > >> *scalding* hot (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit),

OT Coffee (was Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:30:17 +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven said: > > > 2) there had, for a decade prior, been some *700* cases where people > > > had burned themselves with mcdonald's coffee, so it's not as if > > > mcdonald's was unaware of the danger, yet continued to ignore it. > > Given the

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Geert Uytterhoeven
On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, David Weinehall wrote: > On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > 1) mcdonald's was not merely serving their coffee "hot," but > > *scalding* hot (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit), a temperature that > > will produce third-degree burns almost

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Horst H. von Brand
Bernd Petrovitsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > I don't know about others but I wouldn't write an offer with a fixed > price for "look into assembler dumps, reverse engineer it and find an > infringement on a list of given patents" so the patent holder has to > list the patents and the

[OT] Hot coffee (was: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers))

2007-01-02 Thread Steven Rostedt
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 08:22 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: > > > I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and "justice" > > system in the US is completely and totally insane, and companies > > often feel they have to act accordingly. Remember

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Bodo Eggert
David Weinehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: >> 1) mcdonald's was not merely serving their coffee "hot," but >> *scalding* hot (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit), a temperature that >> will produce third-degree burns almost

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Jan Engelhardt
On Jan 2 2007 16:15, David Weinehall wrote: >On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: >> On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: >> >> 1) mcdonald's was not merely serving their coffee "hot," but >> *scalding* hot (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit), a temperature that >>

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread James Simmons
> > > > I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and "justice" > > > > system in the US is completely and totally insane, and companies > > > > often feel they have to act accordingly. Remember this is the > > > > country that has issued multi-million dollar awards to people who > > >

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Jens Axboe
On Tue, Jan 02 2007, David Weinehall wrote: > On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: > > > > > I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and "justice" > > > system in the US is completely and totally insane, and

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Weinehall
On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: > > > I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and "justice" > > system in the US is completely and totally insane, and companies > > often feel they have to act accordingly.

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Robert P. J. Day
On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: > I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and "justice" > system in the US is completely and totally insane, and companies > often feel they have to act accordingly. Remember this is the > country that has issued multi-million dollar awards to

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Theodore Tso
On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 09:26:14PM +1000, Trent Waddington wrote: > The list of features which the driver supports is going to be > sufficient evidence for 99% of patents that relate to computer > graphics hardware. Nope, not necessarily. Recall that Patent Office has issued a patent on the

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 21:26 +1000, Trent Waddington wrote: > On 1/2/07, Bernd Petrovitsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > While this is true (at last in theory), there is one difference in > > practice: It is *much* easier to prove a/the patent violation if you > > have (original?) source code than

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Trent Waddington
On 1/2/07, Bernd Petrovitsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: While this is true (at last in theory), there is one difference in practice: It is *much* easier to prove a/the patent violation if you have (original?) source code than to reverse engineer the assembler dump of the compiled code and prove

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Alan
> I think you're repeating a myth that has become a common part of > hacker lore in recent years. It's caused by how little we know about > software patents. The myth is that if you release source code which > violates someone's patent that is somehow worse than if you release > binaries that

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 16:30 +1000, Trent Waddington wrote: [...] > I think you're repeating a myth that has become a common part of > hacker lore in recent years. It's caused by how little we know about > software patents. The myth is that if you release source code which > violates someone's

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 16:30 +1000, Trent Waddington wrote: [...] I think you're repeating a myth that has become a common part of hacker lore in recent years. It's caused by how little we know about software patents. The myth is that if you release source code which violates someone's patent

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Alan
I think you're repeating a myth that has become a common part of hacker lore in recent years. It's caused by how little we know about software patents. The myth is that if you release source code which violates someone's patent that is somehow worse than if you release binaries that violate

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Trent Waddington
On 1/2/07, Bernd Petrovitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While this is true (at last in theory), there is one difference in practice: It is *much* easier to prove a/the patent violation if you have (original?) source code than to reverse engineer the assembler dump of the compiled code and prove

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 21:26 +1000, Trent Waddington wrote: On 1/2/07, Bernd Petrovitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While this is true (at last in theory), there is one difference in practice: It is *much* easier to prove a/the patent violation if you have (original?) source code than to

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Theodore Tso
On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 09:26:14PM +1000, Trent Waddington wrote: The list of features which the driver supports is going to be sufficient evidence for 99% of patents that relate to computer graphics hardware. Nope, not necessarily. Recall that Patent Office has issued a patent on the concept

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Robert P. J. Day
On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and justice system in the US is completely and totally insane, and companies often feel they have to act accordingly. Remember this is the country that has issued multi-million dollar awards to people

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Weinehall
On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and justice system in the US is completely and totally insane, and companies often feel they have to act accordingly. Remember

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Jens Axboe
On Tue, Jan 02 2007, David Weinehall wrote: On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and justice system in the US is completely and totally insane, and companies

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread James Simmons
I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and justice system in the US is completely and totally insane, and companies often feel they have to act accordingly. Remember this is the country that has issued multi-million dollar awards to people who spill hot coffee in

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Jan Engelhardt
On Jan 2 2007 16:15, David Weinehall wrote: On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: 1) mcdonald's was not merely serving their coffee hot, but *scalding* hot (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit), a temperature that will produce

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Bodo Eggert
David Weinehall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: 1) mcdonald's was not merely serving their coffee hot, but *scalding* hot (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit), a temperature that will produce third-degree burns almost immediately, and

[OT] Hot coffee (was: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers))

2007-01-02 Thread Steven Rostedt
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 08:22 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and justice system in the US is completely and totally insane, and companies often feel they have to act accordingly. Remember this is

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Horst H. von Brand
Bernd Petrovitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I don't know about others but I wouldn't write an offer with a fixed price for look into assembler dumps, reverse engineer it and find an infringement on a list of given patents so the patent holder has to list the patents and the amount of my

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Geert Uytterhoeven
On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, David Weinehall wrote: On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: 1) mcdonald's was not merely serving their coffee hot, but *scalding* hot (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit), a temperature that will produce third-degree burns almost immediately, and

OT Coffee (was Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:30:17 +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven said: 2) there had, for a decade prior, been some *700* cases where people had burned themselves with mcdonald's coffee, so it's not as if mcdonald's was unaware of the danger, yet continued to ignore it. Given the population size

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Weinehall
On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 07:44:24PM +0100, Bodo Eggert wrote: David Weinehall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: 1) mcdonald's was not merely serving their coffee hot, but *scalding* hot (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit), a temperature

RE: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Schwartz
The recommendet _serving_ temperature for coffe is 55 °C or below. Nonsense! 55C (100F) is ludicrously low for coffee. 70C (125F) is the *minimum* recommended serving temperature. 165-190F is the preferred serving range. I can cite source after source for this. For example:

Re: OT Coffee (was Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Dmitry Torokhov
On 1/2/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:30:17 +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven said: 2) there had, for a decade prior, been some *700* cases where people had burned themselves with mcdonald's coffee, so it's not as if mcdonald's was unaware of the danger,

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Weinehall
On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 06:13:46PM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Jan 2 2007 16:15, David Weinehall wrote: On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: 1) mcdonald's was not merely serving their coffee hot, but *scalding*

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Neil Brown
On Tuesday January 2, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 08:22:21AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote: I can very easily believe it. The US patent system and justice system in the US is completely and totally insane, and companies

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Randy Dunlap
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 08:11:21 +1100 Neil Brown wrote: Of course if people would just put milk in their coffee, we would have this problem :-) [We now return you to our regular program of filesystem corruption and flame wars]. Yes, PLEEZE! --- ~Randy - To unsubscribe from this list: send the

RE: OT Coffee (was Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Schwartz
How many of them stuffed the cup between their legs though? I think it she would have sqeezed the cup too hard and burned her hand and sued McDonalds for that people would be more understainding... How would what she did have any bearing on the key issue, which is whether or not McDonald's

RE: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Brian Beattie
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 12:14 -0800, David Schwartz wrote: The recommendet _serving_ temperature for coffe is 55 °C or below. Nonsense! 55C (100F) is ludicrously low for coffee. 70C (125F) is the *minimum* recommended serving temperature. 165-190F is the preferred serving range. I can cite

RE: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread David Schwartz
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 12:14 -0800, David Schwartz wrote: The recommendet _serving_ temperature for coffe is 55 °C or below. Nonsense! 55C (100F) is ludicrously low for coffee. 70C (125F) is the *minimum* recommended serving temperature. 165-190F is the preferred serving range. I

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:14:54 PST, David Schwartz said: The recommendet _serving_ temperature for coffe is 55 °C or below. Nonsense! 55C (100F) is ludicrously low for coffee. 70C (125F) is the *minimum* recommended serving temperature. 165-190F is the 100F == 37C 125F == 52C 55C == 131F

Re: OT Coffee (was Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-02 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:01:56 PST, David Schwartz said: There is simply no way you can argue that McDonald's failed to warn people about the risks. The cup says hot on it, Actually, the HOT on the cup and the sticker in the drive-through that says Warning: Coffee is served very hot were added

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-01 Thread Trent Waddington
On 1/2/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The binary blob in question is several megabytes in size. Now, even totally *ignoring* who knowingly licensed/stole/whatever IP from who, that *still* leaves the problem of trying to write several megabytes of code that doesn't infringe on

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-01 Thread David Weinehall
On Mon, Jan 01, 2007 at 11:04:49PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:03:27 +1000, Trent Waddington said: > > Why don't you release source? To protect the intellectual property. > > Well, duh! That's why everyone holds back source. So allow me to > > translate.. > > > >

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-01 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:03:27 +1000, Trent Waddington said: > Why don't you release source? To protect the intellectual property. > Well, duh! That's why everyone holds back source. So allow me to > translate.. > > Why don't you release source? Because we don't believe in freedom, we > don't

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-01 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:09:43 GMT, Alan said: > That IP story is for the most part not even credible. If they were worried > about "software IP" they would release hardware docs and let us get on > with writing drivers that may well not be as cool as theirs but would > work. If they had real IPR

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-01 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:09:43 GMT, Alan said: That IP story is for the most part not even credible. If they were worried about software IP they would release hardware docs and let us get on with writing drivers that may well not be as cool as theirs but would work. If they had real IPR in

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-01 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:03:27 +1000, Trent Waddington said: Why don't you release source? To protect the intellectual property. Well, duh! That's why everyone holds back source. So allow me to translate.. Why don't you release source? Because we don't believe in freedom, we don't get it

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-01 Thread David Weinehall
On Mon, Jan 01, 2007 at 11:04:49PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:03:27 +1000, Trent Waddington said: Why don't you release source? To protect the intellectual property. Well, duh! That's why everyone holds back source. So allow me to translate.. Why don't

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2007-01-01 Thread Trent Waddington
On 1/2/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The binary blob in question is several megabytes in size. Now, even totally *ignoring* who knowingly licensed/stole/whatever IP from who, that *still* leaves the problem of trying to write several megabytes of code that doesn't infringe on

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-31 Thread Alan
> Why don't you release source? To protect the intellectual property. > Well, duh! That's why everyone holds back source. So allow me to > translate.. That IP story is for the most part not even credible. If they were worried about "software IP" they would release hardware docs and let us get

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-31 Thread Trent Waddington
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 01:16:15PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > At least nVidia *does* actually Get It, they just don't have a choice in > > implementing it, because all their current hardware includes patents that > > they licensed from other companies What makes you think they "get

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-31 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On Fri, 2006-12-22 at 12:59 +0100, Erik Mouw wrote: > On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 01:16:15PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > At least nVidia *does* actually Get It, they just don't have a choice in > > implementing it, because all their current hardware includes patents that > > they licensed from

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-31 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On Fri, 2006-12-22 at 12:59 +0100, Erik Mouw wrote: On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 01:16:15PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least nVidia *does* actually Get It, they just don't have a choice in implementing it, because all their current hardware includes patents that they licensed from other

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-31 Thread Trent Waddington
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 01:16:15PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least nVidia *does* actually Get It, they just don't have a choice in implementing it, because all their current hardware includes patents that they licensed from other companies What makes you think they get it? In a

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-31 Thread Alan
Why don't you release source? To protect the intellectual property. Well, duh! That's why everyone holds back source. So allow me to translate.. That IP story is for the most part not even credible. If they were worried about software IP they would release hardware docs and let us get on

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-23 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:59:21 +0100, Erik Mouw said: > On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 01:16:15PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > At least nVidia *does* actually Get It, they just don't have a choice in > > implementing it, because all their current hardware includes patents that > > they licensed from

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-23 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:59:21 +0100, Erik Mouw said: On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 01:16:15PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least nVidia *does* actually Get It, they just don't have a choice in implementing it, because all their current hardware includes patents that they licensed from other

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-22 Thread Erik Mouw
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 01:16:15PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > At least nVidia *does* actually Get It, they just don't have a choice in > implementing it, because all their current hardware includes patents that > they licensed from other companies (I believe some of the OpenGL stuff that >

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-22 Thread Erik Mouw
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 01:16:15PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least nVidia *does* actually Get It, they just don't have a choice in implementing it, because all their current hardware includes patents that they licensed from other companies (I believe some of the OpenGL stuff that

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-21 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 23:06:43 +0100, Giuseppe Bilotta said: > So while what you say is perfectly sensible for *software* developers, > it has absolutely nothing to do with the closed source drivers > *hardware* companies distribute. The problem is that the software drivers reveal an awful lot

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-21 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 16:38 -0800, Casey Schaufler wrote: [...] > The argument that a hardware company usually > invokes is that, while they don't give a horse's > pitute about the software itself, they do care > about the information the software contains > about their hardware. The concern is

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-21 Thread Bernd Petrovitsch
On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 16:38 -0800, Casey Schaufler wrote: [...] The argument that a hardware company usually invokes is that, while they don't give a horse's pitute about the software itself, they do care about the information the software contains about their hardware. The concern is that

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-21 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 23:06:43 +0100, Giuseppe Bilotta said: So while what you say is perfectly sensible for *software* developers, it has absolutely nothing to do with the closed source drivers *hardware* companies distribute. The problem is that the software drivers reveal an awful lot about

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-20 Thread Casey Schaufler
--- Giuseppe Bilotta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Except that we're talking about *hardware* companies > here, not > *software* companies. *Hardware* companies make > money by selling > *hardware*, not the software that drives it: in > fact, they always > distribute the 'software' they write

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-20 Thread Giuseppe Bilotta
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:34:53 +0200, Hannu Savolainen wrote: > For a professional developer of any software the decision of open > sourcing it is not easy. "Just for fun" developers have no problems > because they don't expect to be able to live on their work anyway. > However a professional

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-20 Thread Giuseppe Bilotta
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:34:53 +0200, Hannu Savolainen wrote: For a professional developer of any software the decision of open sourcing it is not easy. Just for fun developers have no problems because they don't expect to be able to live on their work anyway. However a professional

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-20 Thread Casey Schaufler
--- Giuseppe Bilotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that we're talking about *hardware* companies here, not *software* companies. *Hardware* companies make money by selling *hardware*, not the software that drives it: in fact, they always distribute the 'software' they write (the

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-18 Thread Jesper Juhl
On 18/12/06, Hannu Savolainen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Marek Wawrzyczny wrote: > Dear Linux Kernel ML, > > I am writing as a Linux-only user of over 2 years to express my concern with > the recent proposal to block out closed source modules from the kernel. > > While, I understand and share

Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-18 Thread Hannu Savolainen
Marek Wawrzyczny wrote: Dear Linux Kernel ML, I am writing as a Linux-only user of over 2 years to express my concern with the recent proposal to block out closed source modules from the kernel. While, I understand and share your sentiments over open source software and drivers. I fear

Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-18 Thread Hannu Savolainen
Marek Wawrzyczny wrote: Dear Linux Kernel ML, I am writing as a Linux-only user of over 2 years to express my concern with the recent proposal to block out closed source modules from the kernel. While, I understand and share your sentiments over open source software and drivers. I fear

Re: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was Re: Binary Drivers)

2006-12-18 Thread Jesper Juhl
On 18/12/06, Hannu Savolainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marek Wawrzyczny wrote: Dear Linux Kernel ML, I am writing as a Linux-only user of over 2 years to express my concern with the recent proposal to block out closed source modules from the kernel. While, I understand and share your