Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[J C Nash]

I should note that I gave a talk on a topic closely related to this

http://wiki.oclug.on.ca/doku.php?id=meetingpresentations2017#april
(Backup to USB drives in a group or family context: strategies)

jn
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Dianne Skoll]

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 13:51:02 +1000 (AEST)
Robert Brockway  wrote:

> It sounds to me like your backups are online and replicating from the 
> primary somehow.  The next question assumes that is so.

Yep.

> If data was deleted on the primary would that replicate to the online 
> backups, removing all copies?

For my home backup: Yes.  The backup runs nightly, so if I accidentally
delete something, I have until the nightly run to restore it from the backup.
This is a risk I am willing to take.

For work backups: No, we rotate backup drives.

Regards,

Dianne.
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Robert Brockway]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018, Robert P. J. Day wrote:


 i understand that dump is ubiquitous, and that it integrates with
entries in /etc/fstab but, beyond that, does anyone seriously use dump
for official backups these days?


I haven't used it for backups for a long time but I do use it to migrate 
filesystems.  Dump tends to be fast and clean for actions like this.  I 
only use it on filesystems in a known consistent state.  This is 
especially important for ext2/3/4.


The tool xfsdump has long been considered a defacto standard for backing 
up xfs filesystems, long after other dump utils were put out to pasture.



 but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?


For my own gear I use a Homebrew based on rsync.

Cheers,

Rob
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Robert Brockway]

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018, Dianne Skoll wrote:


My backups are all to hard drives in three separate locations.  Everything
is RAIDed.  I'm placing my bet that not everything will fail at the
same time. :)


Hi Dianne.  Long time no speak.

It sounds to me like your backups are online and replicating from the 
primary somehow.  The next question assumes that is so.


If data was deleted on the primary would that replicate to the online 
backups, removing all copies?


Cheers,

Rob
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Dianne Skoll]

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 10:37:05 -0500
Tim Forbes  wrote:

> On the subject of remote media storage, I have always been concerned 
> about privacy and have not arrived at a good answer for my personal 
> situation. Perhaps a safety deposit box is the right answer, or maybe
> not...

You could encrypt the media and distribute it widely, but keep the
encryption key in a safety deposit box.  That way you don't need
to keep adding stuff to the box when you make new backups.

Of course, if the key is ever compromised... :)

Regards,

Dianne.
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Dianne Skoll]

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 14:03:09 -0500
Rick Leir  wrote:

> How are dvd's for archiving photos?

I would not trust consumer-recordable DVDs to last beyond a few years.

My backups are all to hard drives in three separate locations.  Everything
is RAIDed.  I'm placing my bet that not everything will fail at the
same time. :)

Regards,

Dianne.
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Spencer Cheng]

Not very good for long term storage. Specific type of DVD media is more or less 
OK.

>

In general the problem is that of obsolescence, the BBC Doomsday Book project 
was plagued by that. Will there be a mean to reading your media in another 20 
years? 30 years? 50 years?

I have given up on DVD as storage. I use RAID-1 ZFS volumes which are scrubbed 
regularly to look for data error. Note RAID-5 in general is NOT recommended for 
anything that is valuable or a master copy. RAID-5 rebuild is too prone to 
catastrophic failure.

In general, you will have to do regular transcription of the data to 
successively newer generations of technology over time.

Regards
Spencer

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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[J C Nash]

I've had some dvds (DVD+R or DVD-R types) report read errors when I went to 
check them after a couple of years. It seems
the physical media is not as stable as originally advertised.

JN

On 2018-02-25 02:03 PM, Rick Leir wrote:
> How are dvd's for archiving photos? I have been betting on them. They would 
> not survive a fire, but they are compact so you can send a copy to a relative 
> for safekeeping. I suspect that they would survive flooding. Maybe we will 
> still have dvd drives in ten years! Otherwise we will have to copy the 
> archives onto whatever new media comes up.
> Cheers -- Rick
> 
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Rick Leir]

How are dvd's for archiving photos? I have been betting on them. They would not 
survive a fire, but they are compact so you can send a copy to a relative for 
safekeeping. I suspect that they would survive flooding. Maybe we will still 
have dvd drives in ten years! Otherwise we will have to copy the archives onto 
whatever new media comes up.
Cheers -- Rick
-- 
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Tim Forbes]

On 2018-02-24 01:05 PM, Richard Guy Briggs wrote:

On 2018-02-24 11:27, Tim Forbes wrote:

My desktop uses anacron to run a script that rsync's files from my server.
For redundancy and to permit media rotation, the files go to a ZFS mirror
array physically housed in two of these...

https://tinyurl.com/ydakecb7

... Every now and then, I rotate-in recycled pairs of HDDs.

A snapshot of the array is created prior to each backup, and snapshots that
are too old are erased at that point too. Not a perfect solution, but I no
longer live in fear that all my photos or other precious data might
evaporate.

So you've always got a copy off-site in case your house burns down or floats
away?
Yes, I do have to worry about my house burning down, or water 
inundation. And I've seen a sufficient number of flood and fire victims 
lamenting the loss of family photos to realise that those items are of 
high personal value. Some of my photos are "in the cloud", but not all.


On the subject of remote media storage, I have always been concerned 
about privacy and have not arrived at a good answer for my personal 
situation. Perhaps a safety deposit box is the right answer, or maybe not...


https://tinyurl.com/yaqlon4b

 Sometimes when I travel, I have been known to leave disks with a friend.




I've also got a VPS that is backed-up to my server with dirvish.

Tim

On 2018-02-22 10:33 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:

   i'm prepping to teach 5 days of compTIA linux+ next week, after
which the students will have the option to write exams based on that
content for their LPI certification, so i'm working my way through the
course manual and just hit the section on backups, which opens with
explaining how to use "dump". argh.

   i understand that dump is ubiquitous, and that it integrates with
entries in /etc/fstab but, beyond that, does anyone seriously use dump
for official backups these days?

   i suspect i'll have to cover that utility to some extent, just
because it could conceivably be on the exam, so even if i consider
some of the course content utterly archaic, i still have to cover it.

   but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
tar? rsync? amanda? the possibilities are endless, of course, but i'll
still cover dump, even as i strongly discourage people from using it.

rday

slainte mhath, RGB

--
Richard Guy Briggs   --  ~\-- ~\ 
 --  \___   o \@  @Ride yer bike!
Ottawa, ON, CANADA  --  Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\%
Vote! -- _GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)(*)(*)_


--
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tf (at) greenbullfrog (dot) com

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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Richard Guy Briggs]

On 2018-02-24 11:27, Tim Forbes wrote:
> My desktop uses anacron to run a script that rsync's files from my server.
> For redundancy and to permit media rotation, the files go to a ZFS mirror
> array physically housed in two of these...
> 
> https://tinyurl.com/ydakecb7
> 
> ... Every now and then, I rotate-in recycled pairs of HDDs.
> 
> A snapshot of the array is created prior to each backup, and snapshots that
> are too old are erased at that point too. Not a perfect solution, but I no
> longer live in fear that all my photos or other precious data might
> evaporate.

So you've always got a copy off-site in case your house burns down or floats
away?

> I've also got a VPS that is backed-up to my server with dirvish.
> 
> Tim
> 
> On 2018-02-22 10:33 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> >   i'm prepping to teach 5 days of compTIA linux+ next week, after
> >which the students will have the option to write exams based on that
> >content for their LPI certification, so i'm working my way through the
> >course manual and just hit the section on backups, which opens with
> >explaining how to use "dump". argh.
> >
> >   i understand that dump is ubiquitous, and that it integrates with
> >entries in /etc/fstab but, beyond that, does anyone seriously use dump
> >for official backups these days?
> >
> >   i suspect i'll have to cover that utility to some extent, just
> >because it could conceivably be on the exam, so even if i consider
> >some of the course content utterly archaic, i still have to cover it.
> >
> >   but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
> >tar? rsync? amanda? the possibilities are endless, of course, but i'll
> >still cover dump, even as i strongly discourage people from using it.
> >
> >rday

slainte mhath, RGB

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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Tim Forbes]

My desktop uses anacron to run a script that rsync's files from my 
server. For redundancy and to permit media rotation, the files go to a 
ZFS mirror array physically housed in two of these...


https://tinyurl.com/ydakecb7

... Every now and then, I rotate-in recycled pairs of HDDs.

A snapshot of the array is created prior to each backup, and snapshots 
that are too old are erased at that point too. Not a perfect solution, 
but I no longer live in fear that all my photos or other precious data 
might evaporate.


I've also got a VPS that is backed-up to my server with dirvish.

Tim


On 2018-02-22 10:33 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:

   i'm prepping to teach 5 days of compTIA linux+ next week, after
which the students will have the option to write exams based on that
content for their LPI certification, so i'm working my way through the
course manual and just hit the section on backups, which opens with
explaining how to use "dump". argh.

   i understand that dump is ubiquitous, and that it integrates with
entries in /etc/fstab but, beyond that, does anyone seriously use dump
for official backups these days?

   i suspect i'll have to cover that utility to some extent, just
because it could conceivably be on the exam, so even if i consider
some of the course content utterly archaic, i still have to cover it.

   but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
tar? rsync? amanda? the possibilities are endless, of course, but i'll
still cover dump, even as i strongly discourage people from using it.

rday



--
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tf (at) greenbullfrog (dot) com

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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Brett Delmage]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018, Vic Gedris wrote:


I've been using http://rsnapshot.org for many years. Yes, it's an rsync
wrapper.  Should be available most distro package libraries.


Likewise.
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Scott Murphy]

I suspect that the answer to that depends on what you are using as a backup 
medium.

I have a tape robot and more tapes than I can ever possibly use, so it gets 
some use. Mostly for archives. Amanda is a pain, as it wants to fill tapes, so 
lots of tape changes to get as much on a tape as possible. Bacula is somewhat 
better, as long as you like config files. rsync to a NAS is my usual backup 
strategy and synching the NAS to another is my redundancy. The occasional dd to 
an external HDD from my laptop is also a hedge against disaster.

In defence of dump, I used it relatively recently to virtualize a system that 
was on old hardware and not readily accessible. Other methods I tried failed. 
Restoring dump files to correctly sized virtual disks & LVMs on a new VM from a 
live distro made it an easy task. I suspect I could even turn that into a short 
topic talk for a future meeting if there is interest.

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 10:33 AM, Robert P. J. Day  wrote:
> 
> 
>  i'm prepping to teach 5 days of compTIA linux+ next week, after
> which the students will have the option to write exams based on that
> content for their LPI certification, so i'm working my way through the
> course manual and just hit the section on backups, which opens with
> explaining how to use "dump". argh.
> 
>  i understand that dump is ubiquitous, and that it integrates with
> entries in /etc/fstab but, beyond that, does anyone seriously use dump
> for official backups these days?
> 
>  i suspect i'll have to cover that utility to some extent, just
> because it could conceivably be on the exam, so even if i consider
> some of the course content utterly archaic, i still have to cover it.
> 
>  but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
> tar? rsync? amanda? the possibilities are endless, of course, but i'll
> still cover dump, even as i strongly discourage people from using it.
> 
> rday
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
>http://crashcourse.ca
> 
> Twitter:   http://twitter.com/rpjday
> LinkedIn:   http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
> 
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Rick Leir]

Robert
Amanda is built on some bash scripts so you can understand and modify it to 
your needs. We used it at Cirrus.

Bacula might be a strong contender.
Cheers -- Rick

On February 22, 2018 10:33:24 AM EST, "Robert P. J. Day" 
 wrote:
>
>  i'm prepping to teach 5 days of compTIA linux+ next week, after
>which the students will have the option to write exams based on that
>content for their LPI certification, so i'm working my way through the
>course manual and just hit the section on backups, which opens with
>explaining how to use "dump". argh.
>
>  i understand that dump is ubiquitous, and that it integrates with
>entries in /etc/fstab but, beyond that, does anyone seriously use dump
>for official backups these days?
>
>  i suspect i'll have to cover that utility to some extent, just
>because it could conceivably be on the exam, so even if i consider
>some of the course content utterly archaic, i still have to cover it.
>
>  but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
>tar? rsync? amanda? the possibilities are endless, of course, but i'll
>still cover dump, even as i strongly discourage people from using it.
>
>rday
>
>-- 
>
>
>Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario,
>CANADA
>http://crashcourse.ca
>
>Twitter:  
>http://twitter.com/rpjday
>LinkedIn:  
>http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
>
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[James]

I just use rsync.


On February 22, 2018 10:33:48 AM "Robert P. J. Day"  
wrote:




  i'm prepping to teach 5 days of compTIA linux+ next week, after
which the students will have the option to write exams based on that
content for their LPI certification, so i'm working my way through the
course manual and just hit the section on backups, which opens with
explaining how to use "dump". argh.

  i understand that dump is ubiquitous, and that it integrates with
entries in /etc/fstab but, beyond that, does anyone seriously use dump
for official backups these days?

  i suspect i'll have to cover that utility to some extent, just
because it could conceivably be on the exam, so even if i consider
some of the course content utterly archaic, i still have to cover it.

  but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
tar? rsync? amanda? the possibilities are endless, of course, but i'll
still cover dump, even as i strongly discourage people from using it.

rday

--


Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter:   http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn:   http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday

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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[J C Nash]

I gave a little talk at OCLUG on how I put rsync into a script and then link 
that
to Double Commander so I have a "button" that rsync's left window to the right 
one.

Also buttons for my "remove from A (left) if in B (right)" directory tree.

I'm finding these aids helpful

I also have special backup scripts that backup selected directories via rsync 
to a Synology disk station.

As noted, rsync isn't user friendly, so I find it worth the effort to provide 
the friendliness to the
user (me!)

JN

On 2018-02-22 11:01 AM, Richard Guy Briggs wrote:
> On 2018-02-22 10:46, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2018, Dianne Skoll wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:33:24 -0500 (EST)
>>> "Robert P. J. Day"  wrote:
>>>
   but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
 tar? rsync? amanda?
>>>
>>> I use rsync.
>>
>>   i'll keep track of the responses i get just to pass them on to the
>> class. regarding rsync, now that i went looking for backup solutions,
>> i just ran across dirvish:
>>
>>   http://dirvish.org/
>>
>> which is apparently a user-friendly wrapper around rsync:
>>
>>   http://dirvish.org/docs.html
> 
> rsync isn't user friendly?  ;-)
> 
> I love rsync for getting things across the pond and even comparing things. I
> really wish there was an "rdiff" that did what I expected, using the rsync
> protocol to just list the differences between two network entities.
> 
>> anyway, i'll keep an ongoing list of suggestions.
>>
>> rday
> 
>   slainte mhath, RGB
> 
> --
> Richard Guy Briggs   --  ~\-- ~\ 
> 
>  --  \___   o \@  @Ride yer 
> bike!
> Ottawa, ON, CANADA  --  Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\%
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Vic Gedris]

I've been using http://rsnapshot.org for many years. Yes, it's an rsync
wrapper.  Should be available most distro package libraries.

-Vic



On Feb 22, 2018 17:02, "Paul Hays"  wrote:

I use a gui frontend for rsync called luckyBackup (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuckyBackup ). It is in the Ubuntu repo.

My home setup stores three checkpoint states of user files in a LUKS
encrypted container on a separate machine.

--

Dump's multi-level backup support seems designed to minimize tape
mounts, which I suppose might still be important for some sysadmins. Is
there a gui tool for dump and restore?

On 2018-02-22 10:33 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>
>   i'm prepping to teach 5 days of compTIA linux+ next week, after
> which the students will have the option to write exams based on that
> content for their LPI certification, so i'm working my way through the
> course manual and just hit the section on backups, which opens with
> explaining how to use "dump". argh.
>
>   i understand that dump is ubiquitous, and that it integrates with
> entries in /etc/fstab but, beyond that, does anyone seriously use dump
> for official backups these days?
>
>   i suspect i'll have to cover that utility to some extent, just
> because it could conceivably be on the exam, so even if i consider
> some of the course content utterly archaic, i still have to cover it.
>
>   but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
> tar? rsync? amanda? the possibilities are endless, of course, but i'll
> still cover dump, even as i strongly discourage people from using it.
>
> rday
>
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Paul Hays]

I use a gui frontend for rsync called luckyBackup (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuckyBackup ). It is in the Ubuntu repo.

My home setup stores three checkpoint states of user files in a LUKS
encrypted container on a separate machine.

--

Dump's multi-level backup support seems designed to minimize tape
mounts, which I suppose might still be important for some sysadmins. Is
there a gui tool for dump and restore?

On 2018-02-22 10:33 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> 
>   i'm prepping to teach 5 days of compTIA linux+ next week, after
> which the students will have the option to write exams based on that
> content for their LPI certification, so i'm working my way through the
> course manual and just hit the section on backups, which opens with
> explaining how to use "dump". argh.
> 
>   i understand that dump is ubiquitous, and that it integrates with
> entries in /etc/fstab but, beyond that, does anyone seriously use dump
> for official backups these days?
> 
>   i suspect i'll have to cover that utility to some extent, just
> because it could conceivably be on the exam, so even if i consider
> some of the course content utterly archaic, i still have to cover it.
> 
>   but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
> tar? rsync? amanda? the possibilities are endless, of course, but i'll
> still cover dump, even as i strongly discourage people from using it.
> 
> rday
> 
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Richard Guy Briggs]

On 2018-02-22 10:46, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2018, Dianne Skoll wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:33:24 -0500 (EST)
> > "Robert P. J. Day"  wrote:
> >
> > >   but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
> > > tar? rsync? amanda?
> >
> > I use rsync.
> 
>   i'll keep track of the responses i get just to pass them on to the
> class. regarding rsync, now that i went looking for backup solutions,
> i just ran across dirvish:
> 
>   http://dirvish.org/
> 
> which is apparently a user-friendly wrapper around rsync:
> 
>   http://dirvish.org/docs.html

rsync isn't user friendly?  ;-)

I love rsync for getting things across the pond and even comparing things. I
really wish there was an "rdiff" that did what I expected, using the rsync
protocol to just list the differences between two network entities.

> anyway, i'll keep an ongoing list of suggestions.
> 
> rday

slainte mhath, RGB

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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018, Dianne Skoll wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:33:24 -0500 (EST)
> "Robert P. J. Day"  wrote:
>
> >   but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
> > tar? rsync? amanda?
>
> I use rsync.

  i'll keep track of the responses i get just to pass them on to the
class. regarding rsync, now that i went looking for backup solutions,
i just ran across dirvish:

  http://dirvish.org/

which is apparently a user-friendly wrapper around rsync:

  http://dirvish.org/docs.html

anyway, i'll keep an ongoing list of suggestions.

rday
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Re: [OCLUG-Tech] does anyone still use "dump" for backups these days?

[Dianne Skoll]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:33:24 -0500 (EST)
"Robert P. J. Day"  wrote:

>   but what are folks out there using for their backups these days?
> tar? rsync? amanda?

I use rsync.

Regards,

Dianne.
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