Re: [WSG] font standards today

[Felix Miata]

On 06/08/24 15:15 (GMT-0500) Collin Davis apparently typed:

> On Aug 24, 2006, at 2:50 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

>> Those hundreds of years are history. With the web began a new paradigm.
>> Gone were the canvas size limitations of rock and paper and wall and
>> billboard.

> And they were replaced with browser viewport limitations.

The only significant viewport limitation I see isn't intrinsic. Modern
browsers do a remarkably good job of filling the available space if only
they are allowed to do so, and they're pretty generic in their ability
to do it pretty much like every other modern browser.

Instead, the big limitation is that most web designers choose,
self-limit, to using less than 100% of the available width whenever that
width is more than some arbitrary px value related to lowest common
denominator (lowfi) user configuration. If you don't measure your design
objects in px, then viewport size needn't matter much, if at all.
-- 
"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time
we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."   Galatians 6:9 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/


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Re: [WSG] font standards today

[Felix Miata]

On 06/08/24 14:57 (GMT-0500) Collin Davis apparently typed:

> On Aug 24, 2006, at 1:36 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

>> . How many active, in use, non-educational CSS files can you
>> find on my site where main content text is set to something other than
>> the user's default size and family? I count 0

> Source of http://mrmazda.no-ip.com

> body  {color: #5080C8;
>   background-color: #FEFEFE;
>   text-align: center;
>   font-family: sans-serif;
>   margin: .5em;}

> Where is the line drawn?  You've just overridden a user's possible  
> font color, alignment and font family preferences.

Not really. That page is 4,549 bytes, of which 1,989 bytes are CSS. 937
bytes make up the rest of , leaving  at 1,623 bytes,
including markup. With markup removed, there remains a total of 411
characters, including spaces, line feeds, and carriage returns, none of
which are contained within  . 251 of those 411 bytes make up a
disclaimer in the footer, and 16 are unavoidably contained in two
images. The 144 character balance, including whitespace, is title text,
and link text. So, even though the CSS body rule does specify
"sans-serif", and high contrat colors, and text alignment, there isn't
any _content_ text of the type I meant for it to apply to. It's a foyer
or mini-portal page, entirely the kind of "content" one would expect to
have "design" styles applied to. A title, three main links, and one
minor link in this case make up the "content".

> Surely if every user's preferences are so precious there should be no  
> author styles applied whatsoever, because there is the *possibility*  
> that it may vary somehow from the user's preference.

I don't think I've seen anyone in the thread say implicitly or
explicitly that no author styles should be used. That extreme position
is nothing if not ludicrous. The difference in actual positions is one
of degree of restraint, the difference between invoking a rule for every
possibility (maximum "control"), and dressing only the things that need
dressing to give a page/site a distinctive flavor (far less control).
Lest we forget, the vast majority of web page visitors are using
*personal* computers. There's no reason a good web page design can't be
a blend of both author and visitor personalization.
-- 
"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time
we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."   Galatians 6:9 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/


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RE: [WSG] IE layout problems

[Kepler Gelotte]

> of course, i still have that annoying IE movement bug...
> 
> Tim

I think the margins on the #primary menu list was causing the list to wrap
(just slightly) because of width:auto. To fix it make the changes below.

In the style.css file:

1) Replace all your definitions beginning .menu with:

.menu ul { list-style: none; }
/* * html #left .menu li { list-style: disc; margin-left: 17px;} */
.menu #primary {
padding:0;
margin:0 4px;
width:auto;
/* margin-bottom: 11px; */
font: 13px "Lucida Sans Unicode","Lucida Grande",Arial,sans-serif;
}
.menu #primary li { display: inline; /* margin-right: -3px; */}
.menu #primary a {
text-decoration: none;
padding: 10px 11px;
}
.menu #primary a:link, .menu #primary a:visited {
background: #cc3300;
color: #fff;
}
.menu #primary a:hover {
background: #c1250c;
color: #fff;
}
.menu #primary .active, .menu #primary .active:hover {
background: #E14C24;
}

2) Remove the #breadcrumb section that comes after #header and at the bottom
of the file use:

/* bread crumbs **/
#breadcrumbs { 
border-bottom: 1px dashed #bfbfbf;
background: #e5e3e4;
font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 8pt;
padding: 5px 5px;   
margin-top: 10px;
}
#breadcrumbs a {
color: #000;
text-decoration:none;
}
/* #breadcrumbs a:hover { border-bottom: 1px dotted #000; } */
#breadcrumbs .active { font-weight: bold;}
/*/

Regards,
Kepler




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Re: [WSG] help with divs

[Germ]

Thanks to Gasper and L. J  Lacey for your helpI have it fixed and now I can get onto my other problems...Thanks againOn 8/30/06, L-J Lacey
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hi, I think it's cause you're not clearing your
floats.  If you're not sure about clearing floats thisis a good place to start from:http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html
larmyia-- JP2 Designshttp://www.jp2designs.com

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Re: [WSG] IE layout problems

[Tim Wong]

nevermind, i managed to get it fixed

i had another margin declaration in another stylesheet that was
affecting it :\

thanks for your help!

of course, i still have that annoying IE movement bug...

Tim

TuteC wrote:
> In FF I see the footer stepping over the content. I had that same
> problem, because I had problems with the "outer" div.
> But I didn´t see what exactly may be giving you that problem.
> Regards;
> Eugenio.
>
> On 8/30/06, Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> thanks, i managed to get the footer flush at the bottom of the browser,
>>
>> however now it seems that negative margins aren't doing the trick
>> ie, a negative margin-top isnt even moving the footer upwards
>> (on the contrary, a positive margin-top doesnt move it downwards
>> either..)
>>
>> link: 
>> http://abstract.cs.washington.edu/~wongle/sandbox/snapshot/col.html
>>
>> any ideas?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> TuteC wrote:
>> > For keeping the footer at the bottom:
>> > http://www.1cog.com/public/footer.html.
>> > Regards;
>> > Eugenio.
>> >
>> > On 8/28/06, Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> also - i haven't been able to figure out a way to move the footer so
>> >> that it's flush against the bottom of the browser., with the
>> #container
>> >> expanding the necessary amount.
>
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Re: [WSG] IE layout problems

[TuteC]

In FF I see the footer stepping over the content. I had that same
problem, because I had problems with the "outer" div.
But I didn´t see what exactly may be giving you that problem.
Regards;
Eugenio.

On 8/30/06, Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

thanks, i managed to get the footer flush at the bottom of the browser,

however now it seems that negative margins aren't doing the trick
ie, a negative margin-top isnt even moving the footer upwards
(on the contrary, a positive margin-top doesnt move it downwards either..)

link:  http://abstract.cs.washington.edu/~wongle/sandbox/snapshot/col.html

any ideas?

thanks

Tim

TuteC wrote:
> For keeping the footer at the bottom:
> http://www.1cog.com/public/footer.html.
> Regards;
> Eugenio.
>
> On 8/28/06, Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> also - i haven't been able to figure out a way to move the footer so
>> that it's flush against the bottom of the browser., with the #container
>> expanding the necessary amount.



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Re: [WSG] IE layout problems

[Tim Wong]

thanks, i managed to get the footer flush at the bottom of the browser,

however now it seems that negative margins aren't doing the trick
ie, a negative margin-top isnt even moving the footer upwards
(on the contrary, a positive margin-top doesnt move it downwards either..)

link:  http://abstract.cs.washington.edu/~wongle/sandbox/snapshot/col.html

any ideas?

thanks

Tim

TuteC wrote:
> For keeping the footer at the bottom:
> http://www.1cog.com/public/footer.html.
> Regards;
> Eugenio.
>
> On 8/28/06, Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> also - i haven't been able to figure out a way to move the footer so
>> that it's flush against the bottom of the browser., with the #container
>> expanding the necessary amount..
>
>
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RE: [WSG] IE (6 & 7) list bug.

[Jough]

> 
> May be the double margin bug, for floated elements?
> I´ve encountered it few days ago... ;)

That's a thought.  But the lists that are being affected by the bug are not
floated.  When the list-style is changed on the ul, all descendant ul li's
are affected.  Example:

  List style changed here. Floated.
   Not Effected. Not Floated.
   Not Effected. Not Floated.
   Effected! Not Floated.
   Effected! Not Floated.




Don't take all your time looking through my entire CSS document though.
It's really not that big of a deal.  It works fine the way it is.  :) 

Joe



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Re: [WSG] IE (6 & 7) list bug.

[TuteC]

http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/doubled-margin.html

On 8/30/06, TuteC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

May be the double margin bug, for floated elements?
I´ve encountered it few days ago... ;)
Regards;
Eugenio.



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Re: [WSG] IE (6 & 7) list bug.

[TuteC]

May be the double margin bug, for floated elements?
I´ve encountered it few days ago... ;)
Regards;
Eugenio.

On 8/30/06, Jough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


If you change the list-style to none (instead of the 1px transparent gif) on
the #homepage ul on line 345 there will be a strange margin added to the
list items in IE 6 and 7.  I was able to find documentation on several IE
list bugs, but not this one in particular.  Does anyone here have a fix for
my problem besides the transparent gif solution I used?



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[WSG] IE (6 & 7) list bug.

[Jough]

Take a look at www.pacetools.com
and its css document: www.pacetools.com/css/primary.css.

 

If you change the list-style to none (instead of the 1px
transparent gif) on the #homepage ul on line 345 there will be a strange margin
added to the list items in IE 6 and 7.  I was able to find documentation
on several IE list bugs, but not this one in particular.  Does anyone here
have a fix for my problem besides the transparent gif solution I used?

 

Thanks!

 

Jough

 

 

 







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Re: [WSG] Help with Flowchart & Min/Max Width IE Win

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Sarah Peeke (XERT) wrote:


PROBLEM A






The main problem appears to be the left margin when adjusting the 
browser size (I'm particularly interested in 800x600 and larger 
resolutions).


The whole construction depends on font-size, so it is rather weak across
the entire browser-land. Should be reworked with less em-values.

IE/win needs a 'hasLayout' trigger on main parts, or else it'll lose
track of the entire page.


PROBLEM B

I have also incorporated some min-width, max-width stylesheets for 
IE:





 (corrected the link-address)

That's an expression for quirks mode only, so it'll work in IE5.x but
not in IE6 in "standard compliant" mode.
You'll have more success with one of these 'dual mode' "beauties"...


In your page it doesn't matter which mode IE6 is in, so you may as well
run IE6 in quirks mode and make the present expression work.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

[Tony Crockford]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

Tony Crockford wrote:
it is driving every page on the site from the one stylesheet and there 
are a lot of list menus, hence the need to specifically identify them.


Makes sense, but how many #maprolloverlist are there? I can only find one.

Example:

#maprolloverlist li#rollover1{position: absolute; bottom: 18px; left:
173px;}
.
#maprolloverlist li#rollover115{position: absolute; bottom: 335px;left:
646px;}

...should work and become a bit leaner as:

#maprolloverlist li {position: absolute;}
#maprolloverlist li#rollover1{bottom: 18px;left: 173px;}
.
#maprolloverlist li#rollover115{bottom: 335px;left: 646px;}


agreed, lazy copy and paste on my part...

;o)




And...

/*active squares*/
body#map1 #maprolloverlist li#rollover1 a,

body#map47 #maprolloverlist li#rollover47 a{
   color: #000;
   background-color: #000;
}

...should work as...

body #maprolloverlist li a{
   color: #000;
   background-color: #000;
}

...since all #maprolloverlist seem to use exactly the same styling, but
maybe I'm missing something really !important here - wouldn't be the
first time :-)


slightly missing what I was doing...

there are 40plus map pages - each point on the map is a link to a page 
which repeats the map and on that page  - body#mapx  (I've used an ID on 
the html body) makes the link for that item change color.


I have since realised I should have removed the link for that page for 
better accessibility and then rather than "activating" a link on the 
page, just changing the link to a span or something...






the one thing that I think is making a lot of problems is my attempt 
to use Dan Cederholms bulletproof font sizing technique using keywords...


Well, I never use it (and probably never will), and what you have there
is a bit old and outdated. I can't see that as a source for major
problems though.

Anyway, I would use...

body {font-size: 100%;}
...and size down (if seen as necessary) on text-carrying elements
further in. Much more reliable in today's browsers, and prevents
oversized text when subjected  to "small amounts" of 'minimum font-size'
in Firefox and Opera.


yeah, that's what I was using till Dan's book suggested the alternative!



I would also add...

#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px;}

...(or whatever dimension you like) to overcome the 'minimum font-size'
issue in some browsers. Won't help on IE6' 'ignore font-size' though,
but I think you'll just have to ignore that since there aren't any
/perfectly good/ solutions around.
That is, unless you ignore the number in those links (which I can't read
anyway). Then the previously suggested...


The number was to make the list make sense when CSS was off.

The em sizing was to allow for resizing (and better targeting) of the 
little boxes.




#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px; overflow: hidden;
position: relative;}

...works just fine in IE6 and all other browsers.

If I had the time, then I would also create a pop-up instead of relying
on the browsers own tool-tip. There are a few, working, alternatives 
around.



yeah.

having spent way too long for the budget on the map there are a lot of 
things that I could have/should have added...


like a separate page with a pure html list of attractions (which I might 
do on the next update!)



thanks for the feedback...

;o)

--
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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Tony Crockford wrote:
it is driving every page on the site from the one stylesheet and 
there are a lot of list menus, hence the need to specifically 
identify them.


Makes sense, but how many #maprolloverlist are there? I can only find one.

Example:

#maprolloverlist li#rollover1{position: absolute; bottom: 18px; left:
173px;}
.
#maprolloverlist li#rollover115{position: absolute; bottom: 335px;  left:
646px;}

...should work and become a bit leaner as:

#maprolloverlist li {position: absolute;}
#maprolloverlist li#rollover1{bottom: 18px;left: 173px;}
.
#maprolloverlist li#rollover115{bottom: 335px;left: 646px;}

And...

/*active squares*/
body#map1 #maprolloverlist li#rollover1 a,

body#map47 #maprolloverlist li#rollover47 a{
   color: #000;
   background-color: #000;
}

...should work as...

body #maprolloverlist li a{
   color: #000;
   background-color: #000;
}

...since all #maprolloverlist seem to use exactly the same styling, but
maybe I'm missing something really !important here - wouldn't be the
first time :-)

the one thing that I think is making a lot of problems is my attempt 
to use Dan Cederholms bulletproof font sizing technique using 
keywords...


Well, I never use it (and probably never will), and what you have there
is a bit old and outdated. I can't see that as a source for major
problems though.

Anyway, I would use...

body {font-size: 100%;}
...and size down (if seen as necessary) on text-carrying elements
further in. Much more reliable in today's browsers, and prevents
oversized text when subjected  to "small amounts" of 'minimum font-size'
in Firefox and Opera.

I would also add...

#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px;}

...(or whatever dimension you like) to overcome the 'minimum font-size'
issue in some browsers. Won't help on IE6' 'ignore font-size' though,
but I think you'll just have to ignore that since there aren't any
/perfectly good/ solutions around.
That is, unless you ignore the number in those links (which I can't read
anyway). Then the previously suggested...

#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px; overflow: hidden;
position: relative;}

...works just fine in IE6 and all other browsers.

If I had the time, then I would also create a pop-up instead of relying
on the browsers own tool-tip. There are a few, working, alternatives around.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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Re: [WSG] Safari issue

[Tom Livingston]

Title: Re: [WSG] Safari issue






On 8/30/06 10:44 AM, "Tom Livingston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello list,

Please take a peek at this page in FF and Safari. Why isn’t Safari putting all the main nav links in a nice line like FF (and even IE6!)?

Code validates.

http://66.155.251.18/joinmvp.com/

Thanks for your time.


Ok. Shame on me for even thinking I needed a table in there in the first place. I’m set now. If you looked, thanks! 


I have to go punish myself now... I wonder if Dobby is done with that iron...


-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com






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Re: [WSG] Safari issue

[Tom Livingston]

Title: Re: [WSG] Safari issue






On 8/30/06 10:44 AM, "Tom Livingston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Please take a peek at this page in FF and Safari. Why isn’t Safari putting all the main nav links in a nice line like FF (and even IE6!)?

OK, so I found how to get Safari to show things properly (needs display:inline-table; instead of display:inline;), but it messes the other browsers up. Can I filter Safari?


-- 
Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic | 
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com





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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

[Tony Crockford]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:


Probably could do with slightly simpler CSS here and there, like less
use of the entire ID/class chain to target a type of elements inside a
container. Didn't look deep since that's not the real problem this time,
but unless that stylesheet is also behind other pages, it seems to be a
bit "over-specified" and complex.


I'm interested in the justification behind that?

it is driving every page on the site from the one stylesheet and there 
are a lot of list menus, hence the need to specifically identify them.


I thought it was fairly lean code so I'd very much like to have some 
specifics to understand what you mean.  (I'd accept using divs to 
contain elements rather than id the lists might be an issue, but I find 
it easier to div up the page anyway...  is that what you meant?)


the one thing that I think is making a lot of problems is my attempt to 
use Dan Cederholms bulletproof font sizing technique using keywords...


(I've not used it since, made a lot of things harder TBH)

your thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated if you have time.

thanks

;o)


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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Tony Crockford wrote:
Opera 9 makes big "little" boxes unless you allow the minimum 
font-size to be smaller than the default 9px, so that's an issue I 
need to address.


So does Firefox.
IE6 does the same when 'ignore font-size' is applied.

My preference is 'minimum font-size = 14px" during regular surfing -
which I usually perform using Opera. That's why I noticed it.
Using 'minimum font-size' is a nice "site-breaker" err... "-tester" ;-)

It's been nine months since I wrote the CSS for that site and I'm 
doing things slightly differently now, maybe I need to refresh the 
CSS with my current "best practices" in mind...


Some of the general workarounds don't seem to make an impression on my
browsers anymore, like: no scrollbar forced upon my Opera 9.

Probably could do with slightly simpler CSS here and there, like less
use of the entire ID/class chain to target a type of elements inside a
container. Didn't look deep since that's not the real problem this time,
but unless that stylesheet is also behind other pages, it seems to be a
bit "over-specified" and complex.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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[WSG] Safari issue

[Tom Livingston]

Title: Safari issue



Hello list,

Please take a peek at this page in FF and Safari. Why isn’t Safari putting all the main nav links in a nice line like FF (and even IE6!)?

Code validates.

http://66.155.251.18/joinmvp.com/

Thanks for your time.


-- 
Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic | 
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com





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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

[Tony Crockford]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:


...apparently help a bit across browser-land, but it's just a guess and
it isn't complete. So, what is it supposed to look, and behave, like?


Firefox 1.5.0.6 pretty much has it right. (as do other browsers I've 
quickly checked - I'll set browsercam on it now...)


Opera 9 makes big "little" boxes unless you allow the minimum font-size 
to be smaller than the default 9px, so that's an issue I need to address.


Adding width:767px to the #wrapper div solves the issue for IE7  - 
wrapper was floated to make it enclose floated elements on other pages.


It's been nine months since I wrote the CSS for that site and I'm doing 
things slightly differently now, maybe I need to refresh the CSS with my 
current "best practices" in mind...


;o)


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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

[Tony Crockford]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

Tony Crockford wrote:

http://www.bclm.co.uk/map.htm


Would be nice to know which browsers are rendered this page "correctly"
at the moment, as IE6, Firefox 1.5.0.6 and Opera 9.01 don't seem to
agree on much.

The addition of this...

#maprolloverlist{width: 767px; /* needed for IE7 it seems */}

...but it is also needed by Opera 9, and this...

#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px;
overflow: hidden; position: relative;}

...apparently help a bit across browser-land, but it's just a guess and
it isn't complete. So, what is it supposed to look, and behave, like?


looks like I may have broken it...

I'll revisit it and check latest browsers, it was working...

;o)




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Re: [WSG] help with divs

[L-J Lacey]

Hi, I think it's cause you're not clearing your
floats.  If you're not sure about clearing floats this
is a good place to start from:

http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html

larmyia

--- Germ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> hello
> 
> im creating a website and ive encountered a few
> problems...
> 
> http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/
> 
> the problem I have is that I cannot get the
> container or wrapper div to wrap
> around all of the other div tags like the title,
> content and the right
> tags...
> I am thinking it is because they are floated but im
> not 100% sure.
> 
> I am wanting the edges to stripped but teh rest just
> plain white with some
> shadding in the div tags. see image if you know hat
> i mean (
>
http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/signmakers-prototype1.jpg)
> 
> Any help or suggetions on better ways would be
> greatly appretiated.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> 
> -- 
> JP2 Designs
> http://www.jp2designs.com
> 
> 
>
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L-J Lacey

subtle as a fish
developing websites today for tomorrow

http://www.subtleasafish.com/





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Re: [WSG] help with divs

[Gaspar]

Hello Germ,

add overflow: auto to div#wrapper

U could see in http://www.artideias.com/css/float-heigh.html a example
and explanation but in PT,  i try to explain and put a link to w3c
were you find the answer.

Is about the bottom edge of global content div will be the some of
within elements bottom edge, excluding all absolute position elements
and him within elements even if float or not.

I do not understand is why only work with overflow-auto.

I see thin in some site in english bu i cant find it.
Cheers,
Gaspar




On 30/08/06, Germ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

hello

im creating a website and ive encountered a few problems...

http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/

the problem I have is that I cannot get the container or wrapper div to wrap
around all of the other div tags like the title, content and the right
tags...
I am thinking it is because they are floated but im not 100% sure.

I am wanting the edges to stripped but teh rest just plain white with some
shadding in the div tags. see image if you know hat i mean (
http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/signmakers-prototype1.jpg)

Any help or suggetions on better ways would be greatly appretiated.

Thanks in advance


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[WSG] help with divs

[Germ]

helloim creating a website and ive encountered a few problems...http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/the problem I have is that I cannot get the container or wrapper div to wrap around all of the other div tags like the title, content and the right tags...
I am thinking it is because they are floated but im not 100% sure.I am wanting the edges to stripped but teh rest just plain white with some shadding in the div tags. see image if you know hat i mean (
http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/signmakers-prototype1.jpg)Any help or suggetions on better ways would be greatly appretiated.Thanks in advance-- JP2 Designs
http://www.jp2designs.com

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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Aug 30, 2006, at 5:46 PM, Tony Crockford wrote:


here's the test page:
http://www.boldfishclient.co.uk/test/widthtest.htm
Test of widths IE7

in IE7 the first div is only as wide as its content and it seems to  
be because it's inside an undimensioned floated div...


which is the correct behaviour?

should an undimensioned div stretch to the full width of its  
container or only to the width of its content?


There is no reason for the child divs to shrink wrap to the width of  
their content, unless they are floated or absolute positioned). They  
should be the same width as the parent (floated) div (as in Gecko,  
Safari, and other modern rendering agents).
The floated div will be at least 800px wide (static div inside it  
that has width set) and maximum 900px wide (parent).


It you add (absolute) positioning into the mix, then things become  
completed, and in that case I surely won't let browsers decide.


Note, I notice that the first width-less div has both height and min- 
height applied. 2 'haslayout' triggers... That might complicate  
things in poor IE.




Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh






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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Tony Crockford wrote:

http://www.bclm.co.uk/map.htm


Would be nice to know which browsers are rendered this page "correctly"
at the moment, as IE6, Firefox 1.5.0.6 and Opera 9.01 don't seem to
agree on much.

The addition of this...

#maprolloverlist{width: 767px; /* needed for IE7 it seems */}

...but it is also needed by Opera 9, and this...

#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px;
overflow: hidden; position: relative;}

...apparently help a bit across browser-land, but it's just a guess and
it isn't complete. So, what is it supposed to look, and behave, like?


Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

[Tony Crockford]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

Tony Crockford wrote:

should an undimensioned div stretch to the full width of its
container or only to the width of its content?





Anyway, it's a construction full of conflicts, so I wouldn't leave it to
the browsers to sort out what the standards say about it. I'd rather
solve the conflicts myself, and declare everything.


I normally do - any floated div, normally has a width, but for some 
reason in this case I'd missed it.


what put me off was that IE7 does the exact opposite of all the other 
browsers!


(but what's new!)



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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Tony Crockford wrote:

should an undimensioned div stretch to the full width of its
container or only to the width of its content?


If it's a float, or controlled by the behavior of an undimensioned
wrapping float, then I think it should all shrink to the width of the
non-positioned content.

Anyway, it's a construction full of conflicts, so I wouldn't leave it to
the browsers to sort out what the standards say about it. I'd rather
solve the conflicts myself, and declare everything.

regards
Georg
--
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[WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

[Tony Crockford]

I installed IE7 RC1 this morning and checked out my important sites, 
where I found a strange problem relating to background images.
(http://www.bclm.co.uk/map.htm -  map div only goes part way because 
most content is absolutely positioned)


I have since set up a test case for the cause of the problem and would 
welcome some pointers on what I have found.


here's the test page:
http://www.boldfishclient.co.uk/test/widthtest.htm
Test of widths IE7

in IE7 the first div is only as wide as its content and it seems to be 
because it's inside an undimensioned floated div...


which is the correct behaviour?

should an undimensioned div stretch to the full width of its container 
or only to the width of its content?


cheers

T







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[WSG] Help with Flowchart & Min/Max Width IE Win

[Sarah Peeke (XERT)]

Hi all

---

PROBLEM A

I have a flowchart with background image that is causing me all sorts of
headaches in (you guessed it) IE6 (haven't even looked at IE5.5 if
anyone would like to take the plunge?):



The relevant styles are at the top of the page for convenience (you
shouldn't need to delve into the external styles).

The main problem appears to be the left margin when adjusting the
browser size (I'm particularly interested in 800x600 and larger
resolutions).

---

PROBLEM B

I have also incorporated some min-width, max-width stylesheets for IE:




Which don't appear to be working in IE6 (not sure about IE5 - anyone?).

---

P.S. FF Win and Mac appear to be OK - with no problems.

Any help *very gratefully* received :)

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