[WSG] Help with Flowchart Min/Max Width IE Win

2006-08-30 Thread Sarah Peeke (XERT)
Hi all

---

PROBLEM A

I have a flowchart with background image that is causing me all sorts of
headaches in (you guessed it) IE6 (haven't even looked at IE5.5 if
anyone would like to take the plunge?):

http://www.xert.com.au/test/about/

The relevant styles are at the top of the page for convenience (you
shouldn't need to delve into the external styles).

The main problem appears to be the left margin when adjusting the
browser size (I'm particularly interested in 800x600 and larger
resolutions).

---

PROBLEM B

I have also incorporated some min-width, max-width stylesheets for IE:

http://www.xert.com.au/test/styles/ie5.css
http://www.xert.com.au/test/styles/ie5.css

Which don't appear to be working in IE6 (not sure about IE5 - anyone?).

---

P.S. FF Win and Mac appear to be OK - with no problems.

Any help *very gratefully* received :)

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[WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

2006-08-30 Thread Tony Crockford
I installed IE7 RC1 this morning and checked out my important sites, 
where I found a strange problem relating to background images.
(http://www.bclm.co.uk/map.htm -  map div only goes part way because 
most content is absolutely positioned)


I have since set up a test case for the cause of the problem and would 
welcome some pointers on what I have found.


here's the test page:
http://www.boldfishclient.co.uk/test/widthtest.htm
Test of widths IE7

in IE7 the first div is only as wide as its content and it seems to be 
because it's inside an undimensioned floated div...


which is the correct behaviour?

should an undimensioned div stretch to the full width of its container 
or only to the width of its content?


cheers

T







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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

2006-08-30 Thread Tony Crockford

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

Tony Crockford wrote:

should an undimensioned div stretch to the full width of its
container or only to the width of its content?





Anyway, it's a construction full of conflicts, so I wouldn't leave it to
the browsers to sort out what the standards say about it. I'd rather
solve the conflicts myself, and declare everything.


I normally do - any floated div, normally has a width, but for some 
reason in this case I'd missed it.


what put me off was that IE7 does the exact opposite of all the other 
browsers!


(but what's new!)



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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

2006-08-30 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

Tony Crockford wrote:

http://www.bclm.co.uk/map.htm


Would be nice to know which browsers are rendered this page correctly
at the moment, as IE6, Firefox 1.5.0.6 and Opera 9.01 don't seem to
agree on much.

The addition of this...

#maprolloverlist{width: 767px; /* needed for IE7 it seems */}

...but it is also needed by Opera 9, and this...

#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px;
overflow: hidden; position: relative;}

...apparently help a bit across browser-land, but it's just a guess and
it isn't complete. So, what is it supposed to look, and behave, like?


Georg
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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

2006-08-30 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh


On Aug 30, 2006, at 5:46 PM, Tony Crockford wrote:


here's the test page:
http://www.boldfishclient.co.uk/test/widthtest.htm
Test of widths IE7

in IE7 the first div is only as wide as its content and it seems to  
be because it's inside an undimensioned floated div...


which is the correct behaviour?

should an undimensioned div stretch to the full width of its  
container or only to the width of its content?


There is no reason for the child divs to shrink wrap to the width of  
their content, unless they are floated or absolute positioned). They  
should be the same width as the parent (floated) div (as in Gecko,  
Safari, and other modern rendering agents).
The floated div will be at least 800px wide (static div inside it  
that has width set) and maximum 900px wide (parent).


It you add (absolute) positioning into the mix, then things become  
completed, and in that case I surely won't let browsers decide.


Note, I notice that the first width-less div has both height and min- 
height applied. 2 'haslayout' triggers... That might complicate  
things in poor IE.




Philippe
---
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http://emps.l-c-n.com





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[WSG] help with divs

2006-08-30 Thread Germ
helloim creating a website and ive encountered a few problems...http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/the problem I have is that I cannot get the container or wrapper div to wrap around all of the other div tags like the title, content and the right tags...
I am thinking it is because they are floated but im not 100% sure.I am wanting the edges to stripped but teh rest just plain white with some shadding in the div tags. see image if you know hat i mean (
http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/signmakers-prototype1.jpg)Any help or suggetions on better ways would be greatly appretiated.Thanks in advance-- JP2 Designs
http://www.jp2designs.com

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Re: [WSG] help with divs

2006-08-30 Thread Gaspar

Hello Germ,

add overflow: auto to div#wrapper

U could see in http://www.artideias.com/css/float-heigh.html a example
and explanation but in PT,  i try to explain and put a link to w3c
were you find the answer.

Is about the bottom edge of global content div will be the some of
within elements bottom edge, excluding all absolute position elements
and him within elements even if float or not.

I do not understand is why only work with overflow-auto.

I see thin in some site in english bu i cant find it.
Cheers,
Gaspar




On 30/08/06, Germ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

hello

im creating a website and ive encountered a few problems...

http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/

the problem I have is that I cannot get the container or wrapper div to wrap
around all of the other div tags like the title, content and the right
tags...
I am thinking it is because they are floated but im not 100% sure.

I am wanting the edges to stripped but teh rest just plain white with some
shadding in the div tags. see image if you know hat i mean (
http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/signmakers-prototype1.jpg)

Any help or suggetions on better ways would be greatly appretiated.

Thanks in advance


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 http://www.jp2designs.com
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Re: [WSG] help with divs

2006-08-30 Thread L-J Lacey
Hi, I think it's cause you're not clearing your
floats.  If you're not sure about clearing floats this
is a good place to start from:

http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html

larmyia

--- Germ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 hello
 
 im creating a website and ive encountered a few
 problems...
 
 http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/
 
 the problem I have is that I cannot get the
 container or wrapper div to wrap
 around all of the other div tags like the title,
 content and the right
 tags...
 I am thinking it is because they are floated but im
 not 100% sure.
 
 I am wanting the edges to stripped but teh rest just
 plain white with some
 shadding in the div tags. see image if you know hat
 i mean (

http://www.germworks.net/signmakers/signmakers-prototype1.jpg)
 
 Any help or suggetions on better ways would be
 greatly appretiated.
 
 Thanks in advance
 
 
 -- 
 JP2 Designs
 http://www.jp2designs.com
 
 

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L-J Lacey

subtle as a fish
developing websites today for tomorrow

http://www.subtleasafish.com/





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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

2006-08-30 Thread Tony Crockford

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

Tony Crockford wrote:

http://www.bclm.co.uk/map.htm


Would be nice to know which browsers are rendered this page correctly
at the moment, as IE6, Firefox 1.5.0.6 and Opera 9.01 don't seem to
agree on much.

The addition of this...

#maprolloverlist{width: 767px; /* needed for IE7 it seems */}

...but it is also needed by Opera 9, and this...

#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px;
overflow: hidden; position: relative;}

...apparently help a bit across browser-land, but it's just a guess and
it isn't complete. So, what is it supposed to look, and behave, like?


looks like I may have broken it...

I'll revisit it and check latest browsers, it was working...

;o)




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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

2006-08-30 Thread Tony Crockford

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:


...apparently help a bit across browser-land, but it's just a guess and
it isn't complete. So, what is it supposed to look, and behave, like?


Firefox 1.5.0.6 pretty much has it right. (as do other browsers I've 
quickly checked - I'll set browsercam on it now...)


Opera 9 makes big little boxes unless you allow the minimum font-size 
to be smaller than the default 9px, so that's an issue I need to address.


Adding width:767px to the #wrapper div solves the issue for IE7  - 
wrapper was floated to make it enclose floated elements on other pages.


It's been nine months since I wrote the CSS for that site and I'm doing 
things slightly differently now, maybe I need to refresh the CSS with my 
current best practices in mind...


;o)


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[WSG] Safari issue

2006-08-30 Thread Tom Livingston
Title: Safari issue



Hello list,

Please take a peek at this page in FF and Safari. Why isnt Safari putting all the main nav links in a nice line like FF (and even IE6!)?

Code validates.

http://66.155.251.18/joinmvp.com/

Thanks for your time.


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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

2006-08-30 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

Tony Crockford wrote:
Opera 9 makes big little boxes unless you allow the minimum 
font-size to be smaller than the default 9px, so that's an issue I 
need to address.


So does Firefox.
IE6 does the same when 'ignore font-size' is applied.

My preference is 'minimum font-size = 14px during regular surfing -
which I usually perform using Opera. That's why I noticed it.
Using 'minimum font-size' is a nice site-breaker err... -tester ;-)

It's been nine months since I wrote the CSS for that site and I'm 
doing things slightly differently now, maybe I need to refresh the 
CSS with my current best practices in mind...


Some of the general workarounds don't seem to make an impression on my
browsers anymore, like: no scrollbar forced upon my Opera 9.

Probably could do with slightly simpler CSS here and there, like less
use of the entire ID/class chain to target a type of elements inside a
container. Didn't look deep since that's not the real problem this time,
but unless that stylesheet is also behind other pages, it seems to be a
bit over-specified and complex.

regards
Georg
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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

2006-08-30 Thread Tony Crockford

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:


Probably could do with slightly simpler CSS here and there, like less
use of the entire ID/class chain to target a type of elements inside a
container. Didn't look deep since that's not the real problem this time,
but unless that stylesheet is also behind other pages, it seems to be a
bit over-specified and complex.


I'm interested in the justification behind that?

it is driving every page on the site from the one stylesheet and there 
are a lot of list menus, hence the need to specifically identify them.


I thought it was fairly lean code so I'd very much like to have some 
specifics to understand what you mean.  (I'd accept using divs to 
contain elements rather than id the lists might be an issue, but I find 
it easier to div up the page anyway...  is that what you meant?)


the one thing that I think is making a lot of problems is my attempt to 
use Dan Cederholms bulletproof font sizing technique using keywords...


(I've not used it since, made a lot of things harder TBH)

your thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated if you have time.

thanks

;o)


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Re: [WSG] Safari issue

2006-08-30 Thread Tom Livingston
Title: Re: [WSG] Safari issue






On 8/30/06 10:44 AM, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Please take a peek at this page in FF and Safari. Why isnt Safari putting all the main nav links in a nice line like FF (and even IE6!)?

OK, so I found how to get Safari to show things properly (needs display:inline-table; instead of display:inline;), but it messes the other browsers up. Can I filter Safari?


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Re: [WSG] Safari issue

2006-08-30 Thread Tom Livingston
Title: Re: [WSG] Safari issue






On 8/30/06 10:44 AM, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello list,

Please take a peek at this page in FF and Safari. Why isnt Safari putting all the main nav links in a nice line like FF (and even IE6!)?

Code validates.

http://66.155.251.18/joinmvp.com/

Thanks for your time.


Ok. Shame on me for even thinking I needed a table in there in the first place. Im set now. If you looked, thanks! 

obscure_harry_potter_reference
I have to go punish myself now... I wonder if Dobby is done with that iron...
/obscure_harry_potter_reference

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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

2006-08-30 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

Tony Crockford wrote:
it is driving every page on the site from the one stylesheet and 
there are a lot of list menus, hence the need to specifically 
identify them.


Makes sense, but how many #maprolloverlist are there? I can only find one.

Example:

#maprolloverlist li#rollover1{position: absolute; bottom: 18px; left:
173px;}
.
#maprolloverlist li#rollover115{position: absolute; bottom: 335px;  left:
646px;}

...should work and become a bit leaner as:

#maprolloverlist li {position: absolute;}
#maprolloverlist li#rollover1{bottom: 18px;left: 173px;}
.
#maprolloverlist li#rollover115{bottom: 335px;left: 646px;}

And...

/*active squares*/
body#map1 #maprolloverlist li#rollover1 a,

body#map47 #maprolloverlist li#rollover47 a{
   color: #000;
   background-color: #000;
}

...should work as...

body #maprolloverlist li a{
   color: #000;
   background-color: #000;
}

...since all #maprolloverlist seem to use exactly the same styling, but
maybe I'm missing something really !important here - wouldn't be the
first time :-)

the one thing that I think is making a lot of problems is my attempt 
to use Dan Cederholms bulletproof font sizing technique using 
keywords...


Well, I never use it (and probably never will), and what you have there
is a bit old and outdated. I can't see that as a source for major
problems though.

Anyway, I would use...

body {font-size: 100%;}
...and size down (if seen as necessary) on text-carrying elements
further in. Much more reliable in today's browsers, and prevents
oversized text when subjected  to small amounts of 'minimum font-size'
in Firefox and Opera.

I would also add...

#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px;}

...(or whatever dimension you like) to overcome the 'minimum font-size'
issue in some browsers. Won't help on IE6' 'ignore font-size' though,
but I think you'll just have to ignore that since there aren't any
/perfectly good/ solutions around.
That is, unless you ignore the number in those links (which I can't read
anyway). Then the previously suggested...

#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px; overflow: hidden;
position: relative;}

...works just fine in IE6 and all other browsers.

If I had the time, then I would also create a pop-up instead of relying
on the browsers own tool-tip. There are a few, working, alternatives around.

regards
Georg
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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity

2006-08-30 Thread Tony Crockford

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

Tony Crockford wrote:
it is driving every page on the site from the one stylesheet and there 
are a lot of list menus, hence the need to specifically identify them.


Makes sense, but how many #maprolloverlist are there? I can only find one.

Example:

#maprolloverlist li#rollover1{position: absolute; bottom: 18px; left:
173px;}
.
#maprolloverlist li#rollover115{position: absolute; bottom: 335px;left:
646px;}

...should work and become a bit leaner as:

#maprolloverlist li {position: absolute;}
#maprolloverlist li#rollover1{bottom: 18px;left: 173px;}
.
#maprolloverlist li#rollover115{bottom: 335px;left: 646px;}


agreed, lazy copy and paste on my part...

;o)




And...

/*active squares*/
body#map1 #maprolloverlist li#rollover1 a,

body#map47 #maprolloverlist li#rollover47 a{
   color: #000;
   background-color: #000;
}

...should work as...

body #maprolloverlist li a{
   color: #000;
   background-color: #000;
}

...since all #maprolloverlist seem to use exactly the same styling, but
maybe I'm missing something really !important here - wouldn't be the
first time :-)


slightly missing what I was doing...

there are 40plus map pages - each point on the map is a link to a page 
which repeats the map and on that page  - body#mapx  (I've used an ID on 
the html body) makes the link for that item change color.


I have since realised I should have removed the link for that page for 
better accessibility and then rather than activating a link on the 
page, just changing the link to a span or something...






the one thing that I think is making a lot of problems is my attempt 
to use Dan Cederholms bulletproof font sizing technique using keywords...


Well, I never use it (and probably never will), and what you have there
is a bit old and outdated. I can't see that as a source for major
problems though.

Anyway, I would use...

body {font-size: 100%;}
...and size down (if seen as necessary) on text-carrying elements
further in. Much more reliable in today's browsers, and prevents
oversized text when subjected  to small amounts of 'minimum font-size'
in Firefox and Opera.


yeah, that's what I was using till Dan's book suggested the alternative!



I would also add...

#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px;}

...(or whatever dimension you like) to overcome the 'minimum font-size'
issue in some browsers. Won't help on IE6' 'ignore font-size' though,
but I think you'll just have to ignore that since there aren't any
/perfectly good/ solutions around.
That is, unless you ignore the number in those links (which I can't read
anyway). Then the previously suggested...


The number was to make the list make sense when CSS was off.

The em sizing was to allow for resizing (and better targeting) of the 
little boxes.




#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px; overflow: hidden;
position: relative;}

...works just fine in IE6 and all other browsers.

If I had the time, then I would also create a pop-up instead of relying
on the browsers own tool-tip. There are a few, working, alternatives 
around.



yeah.

having spent way too long for the budget on the map there are a lot of 
things that I could have/should have added...


like a separate page with a pure html list of attractions (which I might 
do on the next update!)



thanks for the feedback...

;o)

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[WSG] IE (6 7) list bug.

2006-08-30 Thread Jough








Take a look at www.pacetools.com
and its css document: www.pacetools.com/css/primary.css.



If you change the list-style to none (instead of the 1px
transparent gif) on the #homepage ul on line 345 there will be a strange margin
added to the list items in IE 6 and 7. I was able to find documentation
on several IE list bugs, but not this one in particular. Does anyone here
have a fix for my problem besides the transparent gif solution I used?



Thanks!



Jough













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Re: [WSG] IE (6 7) list bug.

2006-08-30 Thread TuteC

May be the double margin bug, for floated elements?
I´ve encountered it few days ago... ;)
Regards;
Eugenio.

On 8/30/06, Jough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


If you change the list-style to none (instead of the 1px transparent gif) on
the #homepage ul on line 345 there will be a strange margin added to the
list items in IE 6 and 7.  I was able to find documentation on several IE
list bugs, but not this one in particular.  Does anyone here have a fix for
my problem besides the transparent gif solution I used?



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Re: [WSG] IE (6 7) list bug.

2006-08-30 Thread TuteC

http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/doubled-margin.html

On 8/30/06, TuteC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

May be the double margin bug, for floated elements?
I´ve encountered it few days ago... ;)
Regards;
Eugenio.



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RE: [WSG] IE (6 7) list bug.

2006-08-30 Thread Jough
 
 May be the double margin bug, for floated elements?
 I´ve encountered it few days ago... ;)

That's a thought.  But the lists that are being affected by the bug are not
floated.  When the list-style is changed on the ul, all descendant ul li's
are affected.  Example:

ul  List style changed here. Floated.
li   Not Effected. Not Floated.
ul   Not Effected. Not Floated.
li   Effected! Not Floated.
li   Effected! Not Floated.
/ul
/li
/ul

Don't take all your time looking through my entire CSS document though.
It's really not that big of a deal.  It works fine the way it is.  :) 

Joe



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Re: [WSG] IE layout problems

2006-08-30 Thread Tim Wong
thanks, i managed to get the footer flush at the bottom of the browser,

however now it seems that negative margins aren't doing the trick
ie, a negative margin-top isnt even moving the footer upwards
(on the contrary, a positive margin-top doesnt move it downwards either..)

link:  http://abstract.cs.washington.edu/~wongle/sandbox/snapshot/col.html

any ideas?

thanks

Tim

TuteC wrote:
 For keeping the footer at the bottom:
 http://www.1cog.com/public/footer.html.
 Regards;
 Eugenio.

 On 8/28/06, Tim Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 also - i haven't been able to figure out a way to move the footer so
 that it's flush against the bottom of the browser., with the #container
 expanding the necessary amount..


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Re: [WSG] IE layout problems

2006-08-30 Thread TuteC

In FF I see the footer stepping over the content. I had that same
problem, because I had problems with the outer div.
But I didn´t see what exactly may be giving you that problem.
Regards;
Eugenio.

On 8/30/06, Tim Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

thanks, i managed to get the footer flush at the bottom of the browser,

however now it seems that negative margins aren't doing the trick
ie, a negative margin-top isnt even moving the footer upwards
(on the contrary, a positive margin-top doesnt move it downwards either..)

link:  http://abstract.cs.washington.edu/~wongle/sandbox/snapshot/col.html

any ideas?

thanks

Tim

TuteC wrote:
 For keeping the footer at the bottom:
 http://www.1cog.com/public/footer.html.
 Regards;
 Eugenio.

 On 8/28/06, Tim Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 also - i haven't been able to figure out a way to move the footer so
 that it's flush against the bottom of the browser., with the #container
 expanding the necessary amount.



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Re: [WSG] IE layout problems

2006-08-30 Thread Tim Wong
nevermind, i managed to get it fixed

i had another margin declaration in another stylesheet that was
affecting it :\

thanks for your help!

of course, i still have that annoying IE movement bug...

Tim

TuteC wrote:
 In FF I see the footer stepping over the content. I had that same
 problem, because I had problems with the outer div.
 But I didn´t see what exactly may be giving you that problem.
 Regards;
 Eugenio.

 On 8/30/06, Tim Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 thanks, i managed to get the footer flush at the bottom of the browser,

 however now it seems that negative margins aren't doing the trick
 ie, a negative margin-top isnt even moving the footer upwards
 (on the contrary, a positive margin-top doesnt move it downwards
 either..)

 link: 
 http://abstract.cs.washington.edu/~wongle/sandbox/snapshot/col.html

 any ideas?

 thanks

 Tim

 TuteC wrote:
  For keeping the footer at the bottom:
  http://www.1cog.com/public/footer.html.
  Regards;
  Eugenio.
 
  On 8/28/06, Tim Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  also - i haven't been able to figure out a way to move the footer so
  that it's flush against the bottom of the browser., with the
 #container
  expanding the necessary amount.


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Re: [WSG] help with divs

2006-08-30 Thread Germ
Thanks to Gasper and L. J Lacey for your helpI have it fixed and now I can get onto my other problems...Thanks againOn 8/30/06, L-J Lacey
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi, I think it's cause you're not clearing your
floats.If you're not sure about clearing floats thisis a good place to start from:http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html
larmyia-- JP2 Designshttp://www.jp2designs.com

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