[WSG] Browser stats
Hi all, Just wondered if anyone has a good resource for Browser stats. Currently I've got a few but most get their stats from visitors to the site which can bea bit biased. Currently I've got http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2006/July/browser.php Anyone got better?! Cheers **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] Browser stats
A good question which bring out the random sampling hypothesis testing maniac in me. They site statistics could be a bit biased if you get lots of hits from jaws users or something in particular that has resources for one operating system or browser like a Mac operating resources site stats. Statistically though, to sample the whole world with some accuracy you only need a moderate size sample if the sample represents the wider population. I would not trust the stats even of a single search engine to be unbiased and without commercial interests in selling clicks. Could we trust any one vendor or researcher to report unbiased results from one or a few sites? You need to sample generalist site, with wide appeal, indexed in all search engines wide appeal Widgets like History Science Religion Medicine Psychology, pictures, law and order etc etc. I only get a couple of thousand hits a month (I have banned almost all bots who did not follow robots.txt on my site, but most bad bots might be User Agent X who I have excluded. I must check that. My site seems biased towards Mac hits, a publishing orientation maybe? I'm sure many others would show different stats. There must be a sample possible of members stats, perhaps 40 (the more sites sampled the better) over different months of the year, then we could be sure of browser stats. Which group might be best placed to conduct such research:-) Don't look at me, but I could design the basics of such a study. If you pick generalist sites with wide appeal, you have millions of hits to base your conclusion on that your sample is a true reflection of world-wide browser stats. Tim http://www.hereticpress.com On 01/08/2006, at 10:00 PM, Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, Just wondered if anyone has a good resource for Browser stats. Currently I've got a few but most get their stats from visitors to the site which can be a bit biased. Currently I've got http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2006/July/browser.php Anyone got better?! Cheers ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Browser stats
That argument may seem reasonable but it is flawed. If users with particular user agents can't use your site or find it difficult to use then they are less likely to return. Your stats will then show a low number for these users. You might conclude that the low number means you don't need to botherfixing the site to caterfor these users but in factthe exact opposite is true. Steve From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Seb FrostSent: 01 August 2006 14:20To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Browser stats The only way to get accurate statistics is to gather your own, on each individual site. Then you're guaranteed a relevant sample. If you look at statistics of any other site, no matter what they might claim, you're not getting the information you need! Make the site, put it up, check your stats, make any changes you deem necessary. If it's a design question then go for 800x600 for now, and change later if/when you decide you have enough 1024x768+ users. - seb On 01/08/06, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Just wondered if anyone has a good resource for Browser stats. Currently I've got a few but most get their stats from visitors to the site which can bea bit biased. Currently I've got http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2006/July/browser.php Anyone got better?! Cheers**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] Browser stats
Seb, on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 at 15:19 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: The only way to get accurate statistics is to gather your own, on each individual site. Then you're guaranteed a relevant sample. If you look at statistics of any other site, no matter what they might claim, you're not getting the information you need! Even your own stats may not be accurate. You might make some awful design mistakes that makes your site completely unaccessible for users of special browsers. Chances are that they'd never come back and that your usage stats simply say that there are nearly no users of these browsers... It might be useful to compare your own stats with others and take a closer look at differences. But don't forget that differences will probably be normal. A design-blog will probably attract much more mac users and a site about linux-programming will get more hits by Konqueror users than a single-portal. (Ok, I'm not really sure about the last assumption... ;-) regards Martin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser stats
www.statcounter.com it's free! - Original Message - From: Paul Collins To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 7:00 AM Subject: [WSG] Browser stats Hi all, Just wondered if anyone has a good resource for Browser stats. Currently I've got a few but most get their stats from visitors to the site which can bea bit biased. Currently I've got http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2006/July/browser.php Anyone got better?! Cheers**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help** No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.0.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] Browser stats
Statcounter is ok, i have used it for 3 years and im satisfied accept keyword analysis dont read UTF-8 text. I have also tried google analytics that i think is amazing. i really will let you try it... Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: www.statcounter.com it's free! - Original Message - *From:* Paul Collins mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Sent:* Tuesday, August 01, 2006 7:00 AM *Subject:* [WSG] Browser stats Hi all, Just wondered if anyone has a good resource for Browser stats. Currently I've got a few but most get their stats from visitors to the site which can be a bit biased. Currently I've got http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2006/July/browser.php Anyone got better?! Cheers ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.0.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser stats
Fair point, but I'd never release a site that I hadn't tested and made sure worked adequately in IE5+, firefox, opera, safari etc etc anyway. For me the only really interesting browser stat these days is resolution, and even that isn't a huge concern because 90% of the time I just know that I have to make a site that'll be adequate in 800x600. And sure, some sites might require that you get lynx or netscape 4 support spot on, but again, you're more than likely going to know that before you go live, and will test for it. On 01/08/06, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That argument may seem reasonable but it is flawed. If users with particular user agents can't use your site or find it difficult to use then they are less likely to return. Your stats will then show a low number for these users. You might conclude that the low number means you don't need to botherfixing the site to caterfor these users but in factthe exact opposite is true. Steve From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Seb FrostSent: 01 August 2006 14:20To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Browser stats The only way to get accurate statistics is to gather your own, on each individual site. Then you're guaranteed a relevant sample. If you look at statistics of any other site, no matter what they might claim, you're not getting the information you need! Make the site, put it up, check your stats, make any changes you deem necessary. If it's a design question then go for 800x600 for now, and change later if/when you decide you have enough 1024x768+ users. - seb On 01/08/06, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Just wondered if anyone has a good resource for Browser stats. Currently I've got a few but most get their stats from visitors to the site which can bea bit biased. Currently I've got http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2006/July/browser.php Anyone got better?! Cheers**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] Browser stats
Thanks for your replies. What you say makes good sense Seb, but it would be nice to know how many people are using certain browsers so when clients ask me what to build for I can justify building for IE5 Mac. I don't know whether to throw in a towel yet or not with it. Yespeople can tell me no-one uses it, it doesn't get supported etc; but I would like to see actual statistics rather than opinions. Cheers Paul - Original Message - From: Seb Frost To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Browser stats Fair point, but I'd never release a site that I hadn't tested and made sure worked adequately in IE5+, firefox, opera, safari etc etc anyway. For me the only really interesting browser stat these days is resolution, and even that isn't a huge concern because 90% of the time I just know that I have to make a site that'll be adequate in 800x600. And sure, some sites might require that you get lynx or netscape 4 support spot on, but again, you're more than likely going to know that before you go live, and will test for it. On 01/08/06, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That argument may seem reasonable but it is flawed. If users with particular user agents can't use your site or find it difficult to use then they are less likely to return. Your stats will then show a low number for these users. You might conclude that the low number means you don't need to botherfixing the site to caterfor these users but in factthe exact opposite is true. Steve From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Seb FrostSent: 01 August 2006 14:20To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Browser stats The only way to get accurate statistics is to gather your own, on each individual site. Then you're guaranteed a relevant sample. If you look at statistics of any other site, no matter what they might claim, you're not getting the information you need! Make the site, put it up, check your stats, make any changes you deem necessary. If it's a design question then go for 800x600 for now, and change later if/when you decide you have enough 1024x768+ users. - seb On 01/08/06, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Just wondered if anyone has a good resource for Browser stats. Currently I've got a few but most get their stats from visitors to the site which can bea bit biased. Currently I've got http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2006/July/browser.php Anyone got better?! Cheers**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] Browser stats
I have to agree. I have two sites: one of an international company in Argentina, and the other one of an expensive bar. 100% of the second one uses Windows with fast connections and (almost all) 1024x768. Just a group of people who goes frecuently. The first one has so many visits from different systems that I could hardly do a good job if I don´t rely on standards... I don´t care how many users are changing to firefox in the second one, but in the first one, I care about Lynx, Safari, Opera, old and new IEs... Just another opinion! Regards; Eugenio. On 8/1/06, Seb Frost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only way to get accurate statistics is to gather your own, on each individual site. Then you're guaranteed a relevant sample. If you look at statistics of any other site, no matter what they might claim, you're not getting the information you need! Make the site, put it up, check your stats, make any changes you deem necessary. If it's a design question then go for 800x600 for now, and change later if/when you decide you have enough 1024x768+ users. - seb ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser stats
A too simple way of thinking, and an opinion, not stats. Got it... :) On 8/1/06, TuteC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to agree. I have two sites: one of an international company in Argentina, and the other one of an expensive bar. 100% of the second one uses Windows with fast connections and (almost all) 1024x768. Just a group of people who goes frecuently. The first one has so many visits from different systems that I could hardly do a good job if I don´t rely on standards... I don´t care how many users are changing to firefox in the second one, but in the first one, I care about Lynx, Safari, Opera, old and new IEs... Just another opinion! Regards; Eugenio. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser stats
Just wondered if anyone has a good resource for Browser stats. Currently I've got a few but most get their stats from visitors to the site which can be a bit biased. Heh, it's an evergreen question... my pre-written thoughts are at http://weblog.200ok.com.au/2005/06/lies-damn-lies-and-browser-statistics.html In short: your own server's stats will be the most relevant sample; but you can look at global stats (eg. http://www.thecounter.com/stats/) with a grain of salt and get general impression of trends. eg. while nobody knows exactly how much, we can say with some certaintly that Firefox and Opera have gained marketshare in the past year. Percentages? Nah, I wouldn't put percentages on it :) cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
