Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
russ - maxdesign wrote: The legend can be positioned in Firefox by wrapping the content inside the legend in a span and styling this. Not ideal (additional unnecessary markup), but a quick and easy solution. legendspanLogin details/span/legend Nice workaround. I wrote a script to plug the necessary SPANs in legend elements: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/how_to_position_the_legend_element.asp A bit useless maybe :) It depends how much one wants to keep the markup clean. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
form id=seek action=seek.php method=post fieldset label for=seektextSeek: /label input name=seektext id=seektext type=text / input type=submit value=sök / /fieldset /form A few days ago i have the same problem, legend or not legend, sow i think if fieldset are to allows authors to group thematically related controls and labels. Grouping controls makes it easier for users to understand their purpose... How can i group just one single input? i think there's no reason to do that, sow i removed the fieldset and just use the label for the input. am i right or not? -- Make it simple for the people -- http://www.artideias.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
Gaspar wrote: How can i group just one single input? i think there's no reason to do that, sow i removed the fieldset and just use the label for the input. am i right or not? For my own tuppence, I'd say there's no reason for it. I'm almost certain I've seen pages adorned with every kind of WAI-related medal on the side include single forms without fieldsets. If it were up to me, we'd have a 'caption' or 'legend' attribute for form elements, but in this case there is no room for ambiguity or confusion if your single input has a corresponding label. From a humanist stand-point, I find it extremely hard to conceive of any sentient being that might navigate your site and be distressed in any way by your lack of a fieldset - in fact it's easier to imagine people getting infuriated at having to wade through containing elements. Regards, Barney *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
Hmm, I've found this not to work in Firefox.. doesn't seem to allow legends
to be positioned off screen. display:none works but that defeats the purpose
entirely.
I've found legends very difficult to be styled cross browser - dumping the
legend and using a heading tag will allow much easier styling. I don't think
anyone will hunt you down if you choose to do this...!
I just ran a form with a xhtml strict doctype and no legend thru the W3C
validator and it didn't complain..?
Cheers
James
On 11/30/06, Mike at Green-Beast.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello Lars,
Perhaps you could have it both ways. Since you don't see a need for it
visually, just like the fieldset borders, so maybe you could do this:
fieldset {
border : 0;
}
legend {
position : absolute ;
top : -9000px;
left : -9000px;
}
And just use label element for your individual inputs. The legend would be
available to those who may need or benefit from it while still getting it
out of the way like the fieldset borders.
Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
http://green-beast.com/
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Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
I just ran a form with a xhtml strict doctype and no legend thru the W3C validator and it didn't complain..? XHTML strict won't but HTML strict will. -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
I had written:
fieldset {
border : 0;
}
legend {
position : absolute ;
top : -9000px;
left : -9000px;
}
James wrote:
[...] doesn't seem to allow legends
to be positioned off screen [...]
Whoops, I did not know this. Sorry.
I've found legends very difficult to be styled cross browser
That's the truth! I use them but I do allow for some cross-browser
variances. They aren't a mandatory element, but they *can* be helpful,
especially for complex forms. I think a heading would work just fine for a
wrapping fieldset in lieu of a main legend.
Here's an example of what I hope is a pretty accessible form. It's mostly
naked in that it has just a little basic styling. The main legend is styled
differently than the other legends (it has multiple fieldsets used to ID
small input groupings: http://green-beast.com/gbcf/ (also available as a
WordPress plugin).
Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
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Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
[...] doesn't seem to allow legends to be positioned off screen [...] Whoops, I did not know this. Sorry. That's the truth! I use them but I do allow for some cross-browser variances. They aren't a mandatory element, but they *can* be helpful, especially for complex forms. I think a heading would work just fine for a wrapping fieldset in lieu of a main legend. The legend can be positioned in Firefox by wrapping the content inside the legend in a span and styling this. Not ideal (additional unnecessary markup), but a quick and easy solution. legendspanLogin details/span/legend Once this is done, you can move it off screen easily or set the span to display: block and you have much more control over positioning. In regard to the use of html elements such as headings instead of legends, keep in mind that legends have additional semantic meaning for devices such as screen readers. The legend is sometimes read out in association with form elements. Headings, on the other hand, are not tied to form elements in the same way and are even ignored by certain assistive devices when they move into forms mode. HTH Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
I believe it would be helpful for accessibility reasons. Think of it like a caption attribute on a table. It gives a description of the relationship of the group of child elements. - Adam -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keryx webb Sent: Thursday, 30 November 2006 10:01 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend Hello again! I was using http://dev.wave.webaim.org and it complained about my having a fieldset but no legend-element. I am using a strict doctype and this is my markup: form id=seek action=seek.php method=post fieldset label for=seektextSeek: /label input name=seektext id=seektext type=text / input type=submit value=sök / /fieldset /form This is my question, since I do need a containing element for my input elements, but see no real reason to have a legend, am I misusing the fieldset element? Visually there is no border (unless CSS is turned off of course.) The only real reason I put in the fieldset tags is to comply with the DTD. But perhaps a div would be better? Will screen readers provide any unnecessary information if I do use the fieldset element, that seemed most appropriate for this job? (My only testing tool is Fangs.) Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/417 - Release Date: 11/08/2006 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
On 11/29/06, Keryx webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was using http://dev.wave.webaim.org and it complained about my having a fieldset but no legend-element. A fieldset is for grouping related fields together, and its legend should describe the group of fields. If you are just using the fieldset to make the page validate, use a different (block level) element as a container. Alternatively, some people use a block-level element around each individual form element (like a P or DIV) to aid with formatting. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
Keryx webb wrote: form id=seek action=seek.php method=post fieldset label for=seektextSeek: /label input name=seektext id=seektext type=text / input type=submit value=sök / /fieldset /form This is my question, since I do need a containing element for my input elements, but see no real reason to have a legend, am I misusing the fieldset element? In a very broad sense, one could argue that every form should at least have one fieldset wrapping everything in it. At that point, though, I'd say that the form itself already acts (semantically/structurally) as the logical container for all the form elements within, and adding an extra fieldset is semantic overkill. The only real reason I put in the fieldset tags is to comply with the DTD. But perhaps a div would be better? I'd say a div would be a fair enough choice here Will screen readers provide any unnecessary information if I do use the fieldset element, that seemed most appropriate for this job? (My only testing tool is Fangs.) This may be of interest http://www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog/general-accessibility/too-much-accessibility-fieldset-legends/ P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
Lars wrote:
This is my question, since I do
need a containing element for my
input elements, but see no real
reason to have a legend, am
I misusing the fieldset element?
Visually there is no border (unless
CSS is turned off of course.)
Hello Lars,
Perhaps you could have it both ways. Since you don't see a need for it
visually, just like the fieldset borders, so maybe you could do this:
fieldset {
border : 0;
}
legend {
position : absolute ;
top : -9000px;
left : -9000px;
}
And just use label element for your individual inputs. The legend would be
available to those who may need or benefit from it while still getting it
out of the way like the fieldset borders.
Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
http://green-beast.com/
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Re: [WSG] Fieldset but no legend
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: This may be of interest http://www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog/general-accessibility/too-much-accessibility-fieldset-legends/ Thanks for the link. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
